PNS Alamgir, Kuwait Navy to hold joint exercise

[nomi007]

we induct 2 nh-90 for pns alamgir
or any western attack helicopter for this ship

 

[Aamir Hussain]

Could be interesting. Egypt used Seasprite with it's Perry's. But, given problems the Aussie had and given PN is getting Z-9, I would try avoid adding another type to the inventory (with all due logistical hassles) and focus on more Z-9.

Agree with your viewpoint on issues with logistics train. however, PN is not planning to use its Lynx anymore (I think they never made them operational) and trying to sell them off. That leaves us the Z-9 as the true shipboard helo being operated by PN. The Allouette's are stop gap measures and are really embarke for SAR duties and not ASW or ASuW.

Furthermore, I believe, US would not allow integration of a Chinese platfrom with the OHP or the Orion.

The integration of the Orions, OHP and the F22's/Type 54 (In future) would, I believe, remain a challenge for PN unless they can find a more capable Chinese replacement for our Orions.

 

[Arsalan]

buying one or two new choppers for this ship? will this be feasible?

 

[Aamir Hussain]

AA123, my objective here is not to debate the origins of the ships but to debate the "Actual " capability of Naval Platforms we end up buying, getting etc.

As far as the OHP is concerned -- it is a stop gap measure, till such time, when we can really get hold of a true multipurpose frigate with better sensors and weapons than what we have today. We all agreed on this in all our posts that this how one can and should view the induction of OHP into the fleet.

I am sure that you will agree with me that if we can integrate the Z-9C to the OHP, embarking two instead of one Helo is a huge capability boost (The two helos are roughly the same in height, length, and weight - infact Z 9C is slightly shorter in height and smaller in length) for ASW and ASuW capability of the OHP.

Otherwise, I agree with you that newer platforms are better than the old ones provided; 1. the new ones are more capable than what we have at present otherwise the higher cost does not justify getting the same old stuff because it is new; 2. The ASW and AAW capability of PN gets a boost.

I believe that the AAW capability with the induction of the newer platforms has increased but I am not sure about the ASW capability. To find that out, we would need a in-depth understanding of the weapons and sensor suits of all three platforms currnetly in use with PN. For that, I am putting together some material, will share it with you once it is done.

Furthermore, I know that you know the difference between Aid and Paid.

I immensly enjoy your posts and I do hope that you take this explanation in the spirit it is being given.;-)

 

[Penguin]

Agree with your viewpoint on issues with logistics train. however, PN is not planning to use its Lynx anymore (I think they never made them operational) and trying to sell them off. That leaves us the Z-9 as the true shipboard helo being operated by PN. The Allouette's are stop gap measures and are really embarke for SAR duties and not ASW or ASuW.

Furthermore, I believe, US would not allow integration of a Chinese platfrom with the OHP or the Orion.

The integration of the Orions, OHP and the F22's/Type 54 (In future) would, I believe, remain a challenge for PN unless they can find a more capable Chinese replacement for our Orions.

I don't think there is that much to integrate between helicopted and ship, other than (data)communications. Consider Z-9 is a modified Dauphin, USCG is operating Dauphins and USCG is to work seemlesly with USN. How hard can it be?

You got Chinese SAM on the ex-UK Type 21.... how hard was that?

Why would US block integration of e.g. FL-3000N with OHP? (all it needs is cueing - range + direction - information from the ship's radars) It is in the US's interest to have a viable PN. A short range system like FL3000N doesn't changes the balance of power in the region ;-)

 

[Aamir Hussain]

If it is swapping Data only and it is not that difficult than our problems are solved. We can always get more Z-9C from China and embark them on the OHP. Actually doubling the Helo capability on the ship as compared to Amazons.

Now if we can integrate the Harpoon or the Exocet on the Z-9C, we can have a good ASuW platform avaible on both the Amazons and the OHP. However, I am suspecting that this would reqiure some R&D other than just data uplinks etc. I am discounting the possiblity of Harpoon/Exocet armed helos on the F22P's (They might end up with a Chinese Air launched AshM).

 

[petervivian]

I'm sorry but the two deals are VERY different, and once again you are showing your ignorance on defence procurement policy. You got the above helos from China who ripped them off from France (Dauphin in their service). But the SH-60 is a US product and they are VERY strict with who they sell what to and would be reluctant to sell advanced SH-60R, especially at a time when IN is seriously considering buying them. And especially when Pakistan arms procurement is a particular sore point in the US Senate/Congress the very people who would have to sign off on any such deal- which in current climate seems unlikely.

“It (Harbin Z-9) is a license-built version of the French Eurocopter Dauphin”, check out the wiki: Harbin Z-9 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[fatman17]

If it is swapping Data only and it is not that difficult than our problems are solved. We can always get more Z-9C from China and embark them on the OHP. Actually doubling the Helo capability on the ship as compared to Amazons.

Now if we can integrate the Harpoon or the Exocet on the Z-9C, we can have a good ASuW platform avaible on both the Amazons and the OHP. However, I am suspecting that this would reqiure some R&D other than just data uplinks etc. I am discounting the possiblity of Harpoon/Exocet armed helos on the F22P's (They might end up with a Chinese Air launched AshM).

z9ec type helos may have difficulty in carrying a exocet/harpoon/c-802 asm. larger helos like seakings can certainly carry and fire these asm's.

z9ec can certainly fire ASW torpedos.

 

[fatman17]

i doubt if the US will release the seasprites. it is a long-standing request. inegrating the z9ec would be the best option. keep the supply chain less complicated, the better

 

[fatman17]

the other thing is that PN has requested upto 8 OHP's FFG's either on a free transfer or lease.

 

[Donatello]

z9ec type helos may have difficulty in carrying a exocet/harpoon/c-802 asm. larger helos like seakings can certainly carry and fire these asm's.

z9ec can certainly fire ASW torpedos.

Hmm, Maybe they can make a baby, shorter version of C802???

 

[pak avatar]

Question: how did Pakistan Navy visit Kuwait considering that the Kuwaiti govt doesnt give visas to pakistani now??
Such great muslim brothers they are.
And such big idiots we r tht we go to them when they insult us.

 

[TOPGUN]

I see we are still wondering what heli will our OHP carry ? what are our choices here?

 

[Aamir Hussain]

Continue with Alouette III --- it's just a liaison/SAR platfrom. Not much joy there.
Integrate Z9-C (BTW does anyone know why we do not get the "EC" version? It is a deicated ASW platform.). Armed with ET-52 torps it is a good bet for ASW work. But does not have any ASuW capabiltiy
Revive the request for SuperSeasprites. Dedicate ASW platform with ASuW capability (In Non - US Services). Mevricks can also be carried.