PN modified P-3C aircraft for land-attack missions

[paritosh]

News flash - hurting the opponent is what all weapon systems do, whether they are modified or not.

Complaining about the alleged modification, and it is important ealize the 'alleged' part at this point (the Naval chief is shooting his mouth off without the issue even being confirmed), is disingenuous since Pakistan reportedly has the Block II with Land Attack capability already.

http://www.defence.pk/forums/military-aviation/32341-pak-p-3-orion-vs-india-p-8i-2.html#post460474

It's not how well the 'modifications' yes alleged...stack up against the other missiles in the Pakistani arsenal...if the navy chief thinks that by 'whining' he can get the americans to do a field check of the munitions and bring the alleged breach of the end-user agreement...he is not going overboard.
picture this...we buy American tech...make them more lethal...you know that they are placed under the end-user agreement...and we happen to use the same tech against you in a war...why wouldn't you do something as simple as raise the issue?

What is happening, IMO, is that the Indians are on a massive media offensive to try and derail the aid package to Pakistan as well as put as many hurdles as possible in the way of any future Pakistani military acquisitions from the US.

did you frankly ever believe otherwise?
you criticized the civilian nuke deal?it wasn't providing us with bomb grade uranium...it was a pure civilian deal.It was because Pakistan wanted a similar cut for itself....no problem with that.

It is whining when you compare the attitudes of the Pakistani and Indian governments and militaries respectively towards military acquisitions of the other. Very few other nations go to the sort of lengths of disinformation, lies and propaganda that the Indian Military and Government have been doing.

it was Obama that told the whole world how the American aid is being misused by your country in arming against us....how can we swallow the fact that you are using loans and aids to buy weapons(obviously against us) when they are meant to be for something different?

 

[Arsalan]

actually most of us seem to have missed a very important point,
it is not the modified harpoon that hurts india and US is concerned about but it is just the modification part, i mean to say what cause india and US much more problem is that pakistan can modify the equipment according to there requirment.
most of the people think that reverse engineering is just like stealing another nations idea, it is not that simple. reversee engineering a system, understanding it and then modifying it acording to your requirment s a hell of a job and in pakistan indeed have accquired this level of engineering then it is a concer for our enemies as it is infact a massive move toward the eventual goal of indegenious development of military hardware.
modefieng a harpoon for land atack means that it wont be long before PN gets its naval babur!!
the process is not limited to harpoon, it goes on to P3C orinons with PN and this concerns that pakistan may soon get going in almost all the military felids with out any further relience on anyone!

many take it as a aim to stop US military aid but for me the acheivement itself have sounded an alarm in dehli and pentagon!!
this is just my view point, i will like to hear from you Sir.AgnosticMuslim on this issue!!
waiting,

regards!
regards!

 

[hj786]

how can we swallow the fact that you are using loans and aids to buy weapons(obviously against us) when they are meant to be for something different?

If Pakistanis can swallow the fact their country is being bullied in every way possible by a country far bigger and with far more resources, a country that wouldn't dare pick on somebody its own size, I don't see why you can't swallow Pakistan's desire to procure weapons by any means possible?

It's up to the US what its "loans and aids" are meant to be for.

 

[Gabbar]

If Pakistanis can swallow the fact their country is being bullied in every way possible by a country far bigger and with far more resources, a country that wouldn't dare pick on somebody its own size, I don't see why you can't swallow Pakistan's desire to procure weapons by any means possible?

It's up to the US what its "loans and aids" are meant to be for.

How can he swallow the fact that India's arch rival is getting more weapons to be used against it? Militents born from that contry are constently attacking India, how can he swallow this fact that same country is not being held to accountability?

It is natual to bicker about each others gains and mistakes, India and Pakistan are archrivals. At least for time being.

 

[hj786]

How can he swallow the fact that India's arch rival is getting more weapons to be used against it? Militents born from that contry are constently attacking India, how can he swallow this fact that same country is not being held to accountability?

If he's OK with India not being accountable for its actions (against Pakistan), why isn't he OK with similar treatment of Pakistan? I don't get it. India is an angel and Pakistan is evil? Bullsh*t, its realpolitik and both sides practice it whether Mr Paritosh likes it or not.

It is natual to bicker about each others gains and mistakes, India and Pakistan are archrivals. At least for time being.

I disagree, its not natural to p*ss people off then complain when they arm themselves against you.

 

[PakShaheen79]

Same goes for India, why would India? If any country is getting new equipement for enhancing its security then whats the problem, and just bcoz India is buying new hardware, is it so Pakistan has to keep on doing what India does.

Pakistan can buy what it need to secure its country, so just do it. There is no meaing in following each other. Just do whats better for the country.



Same goes for GOP, whenever any new deal is done or new equipment is bought by India.

I accept your point of view but want to ask a simple question;
Do you really saw GoP or our serives chief crying over Indian military buildup?

I think hardly while I have seen Indian PM worried over sale of C-130s to Pakistan by US.lol

 

[PakShaheen79]

It's not how well the 'modifications' yes alleged...stack up against the other missiles in the Pakistani arsenal...if the navy chief thinks that by 'whining' he can get the americans to do a field check of the munitions and bring the alleged breach of the end-user agreement...he is not going overboard.
picture this...we buy American tech...make them more lethal...you know that they are placed under the end-user agreement...and we happen to use the same tech against you in a war...why wouldn't you do something as simple as raise the issue?

did you frankly ever believe otherwise?
you criticized the civilian nuke deal?it wasn't providing us with bomb grade uranium...it was a pure civilian deal.It was because Pakistan wanted a similar cut for itself....no problem with that.

it was Obama that told the whole world how the American aid is being misused by your country in arming against us....how can we swallow the fact that you are using loans and aids to buy weapons(obviously against us) when they are meant to be for something different?

Neither Obama noe Indian nor anybody else in the whole world has any proof of all this 'missile modification hoopla'. Please stop this. If Pakistan did reverse engineer Tomahawk missile then it was not US who asked US to fire hundreds of missile to Afghanistan from Arabian Sea in 98. I know cruise missile program of Pakistan has taken both India and US by surprise and now it will really very difficult for them to digest a Naval version of this.

Please bring a reliable proof with you other than NYtimes and TimesofIndia before opening your mouth on 'missile modification' by Pakistan.

I am so sorry for now as Indian Naval Chief's crying has not moved americans to initiate a munition count of Harpoons.

 

[paritosh]

If Pakistanis can swallow the fact their country is being bullied in every way possible by a country far bigger and with far more resources, a country that wouldn't dare pick on somebody its own size.....

sir,
the conduct of my country has been very good...and I am proud of that.We initiated a new peace round when Atal Bihari Vajpayi visited Pakistan by bus...what did we get?we got back stabbed in Kargil!
it resulted in a new level of mistrust for years...and then when it gradually made way for peace...we had the Mumbai attacks where you know what happened!
during Kargil did we cross the LOC?you know how malnourished the PAf was back then compared to ours...we showed restraint when our parliament was attacked.
we showed restraint during the Mumbai incident...don't tell me that we bully you...at least we don't try to murder you!

I don't see why you can't swallow Pakistan's desire to procure weapons by any means possible?

dude...play fair and we would respect you.

It's up to the US what its "loans and aids" are meant to be for.

and Obama happens to be the president of the US.

 

[paritosh]

If he's OK with India not being accountable for its actions (against Pakistan), why isn't he OK with similar treatment of Pakistan? I don't get it. India is an angel and Pakistan is evil?Bullsh*t, its realpolitik and both sides practice it whether Mr Paritosh likes it or not.

what precisely are the actions that you talk about?
as far as the evil angel thing is concerned...the US has a dozen watchdog agencies trying to figure out potential threats....and it's based on the WMDs and their delivery systems with various countries...just on the basis of perceived threat...the US can maintain a level of threshold hostility(diplomatic at least) with that country....in this case it is Pakistan...we've hogged the limelight in the entire 90s...so it's not about evil and good.Plus you happen to be a friend of China...and your military programs are veiled.

I disagree, its not natural to p*ss people off then complain when they arm themselves against you.

arm against us....but play fair...but then I am sure that people in Pakistan actually 'hope' that you use your nukes.

 

[hj786]

what precisely are the actions that you talk about?

Try a google search for "Indo-Pak relations".

sir,
the conduct of my country has been very good...

BS. Neither side's conduct has been very good.

we got back stabbed in Kargil!

Pakistan has been being backstabbed ever since independance.

during Kargil did we cross the LOC? you know how malnourished the PAf was back then compared to ours...we showed restraint when our parliament was attacked.... we showed restraint during the Mumbai incident...

India took over disputed territory in the mid 80s, Siachen wasn't it? How is that different to Kargil?
Oh its obvious why restraint was shown, your own military officials have stated why also. Restraint will always be shown, as long as Pakistan has a credible nuclear deterrent and refuses to employ a no-first-use policy.

don't tell me that we bully you...

Don't tell me about "fair play" then.

at least we don't try to murder you!

Thank you very much, you are so very kind!

dude...play fair and we would respect you.

From Wikipedia:
Pakistan
Area: 340,403 sq mi
Active military personnel: 619,000
Military budget: $7.8 billion

India
Area: 1,269,210 sq mi
Active troops: 1,414,000 (Ranked 3rd)
Military budget: $32.35 billion

What were you saying about "playing fair"? It is impossible for either side to play fair.

and Obama happens to be the president of the US.

Which means it is his decision (and that of other US politicians) whether the equipment will be used for the right or wrong purposes.

it's not about evil and good.

Hang on a minute. On the one hand you keep repeating this:

but play fair...

On the other hand, "its not about good and evil"? Make your mind up, which is it going to be? "Honourable" fair play, or reality?

but then I am sure that people in Pakistan actually 'hope' that you use your nukes.

It doesn't matter what people in Pakistan 'hope', Pakistan may well end up having no choice in the matter, it could be a case of 'use nukes or lose' - simple as that. That's why India is showing 'restraint'. Oh and I'm pretty sure nobody here cares what you think people in Pakistan hope for. Certainly none of the Pakistanis.

and your military programs are veiled.

They have to be.

 

[paritosh]

Try a google search for "Indo-Pak relations".

BS. Neither side's conduct has been very good.

Pakistan has been being backstabbed ever since independance.

India took over disputed territory in the mid 80s, Siachen wasn't it? How is that different to Kargil?
Oh its obvious why restraint was shown, your own military officials have stated why also. Restraint will always be shown, as long as Pakistan has a credible nuclear deterrent and refuses to employ a no-first-use policy.

Don't tell me about "fair play" then.

Thank you very much, you are so very kind!

From Wikipedia:
Pakistan
Area: 340,403 sq mi
Active military personnel: 619,000
Military budget: $7.8 billion

India
Area: 1,269,210 sq mi
Active troops: 1,414,000 (Ranked 3rd)
Military budget: $32.35 billion

What were you saying about "playing fair"? It is impossible for either side to play fair.


Which means it is his decision (and that of other US politicians) whether the equipment will be used for the right or wrong purposes.


Hang on a minute. On the one hand you keep repeating this:

On the other hand, "its not about good and evil"? Make your mind up, which is it going to be? "Honourable" fair play, or reality?


It doesn't matter what people in Pakistan 'hope', Pakistan may well end up having no choice in the matter, it could be a case of 'use nukes or lose' - simple as that. That's why India is showing 'restraint'. Oh and I'm pretty sure nobody here cares what you think people in Pakistan hope for. Certainly none of the Pakistanis.

They have to be.

hj785...no need to murder my post...it's not clever dividing the entire post and it's meaning into lines and trying to score on the humor front...
alright let's say Kargil was legit and you meant liberating the Kashmiris and all the good stuff that you people talk about...then why talk of peace and peaceful resolutions?
why did you entertain the peaceful dialogues and instigate a false hope of peaceful solutions to the cancer that is Kashmir?
that is what is called as back stabbing.
and as far as the nuclear deterrence is concerned...I still remember how Musharaf openly stated that he'd nuke India(and thereby target the civilian population) "if a single Indian army person crosses the LOC"

that clearly showed that you lacked the stomach for a conventional war back then....what you call deterence is what i call getting dirty...nukes dont differentiate between a man and an innocent child....
"It doesn't matter what people in Pakistan 'hope', Pakistan may well end up having no choice in the matter, it could be a case of 'use nukes or lose' - simple as that. That's why India is showing 'restraint'. Oh and I'm pretty sure nobody here cares what you think people in Pakistan hope for. Certainly none of the Pakistanis."

use nukes or lose....use nukes and win?
please answer that...and think a bit about it.

 

[Arsalan]

can you give explanation about india carrying nukes with there planes, ships, missiles, and subs!!

are they a goodwill gesturr,
i mean do you guys want to go fishing on your neuclre subs carrying nuclear missiles!!

regards!

 

[TOPGUN]

can you give explanation about india carrying nukes with there planes, ships, missiles, and subs!!

are they a goodwill gesturr,
i mean do you guys want to go fishing on your neuclre subs carrying nuclear missiles!!

regards!

Haha good point made!

 

[paritosh]

can you give explanation about india carrying nukes with there planes, ships, missiles, and subs!!

are they a goodwill gesturr,
i mean do you guys want to go fishing on your neuclre subs carrying nuclear missiles!!

regards!

our planes and subs and missiles won't deliver nukes even if we have a war and are say losing it...can you follow our example?
no first use.

 

[Arsalan]

our planes and subs and missiles won't deliver nukes even if we have a war and are say losing it...can you follow our example?
no first use.

and what is there to back up your claim???
is this the peace loving nature of you people that maje yo claim so?? i hope it is not because that nature points to use of nukes even in terrorism!

regards!