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PN buying 3 P-3 Orion based Hawkeye2000 AEW&C systems

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Whilst having a search around the internet for info on the Hawkeye2000 I came across some interesting information regarding the P-8(from personnel who had used the systems p-3 and variants.) whilst the Electronics were undoubtably upgraded there were faults (such as the poor performance at the relevant heights for ASW and the lower loiter time)

Unfortunately it is at a blog for US naval personnel. So will await clearance from the powers that be to post the link.
 
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Whilst having a search around the internet for info on the Hawkeye2000 I came across some interesting information (from personnel who had used the systems p-3 and variants.) whilst the Electronics were undoubtably upgraded there were faults (such as the poor performance at the relevant heights for ASW and the lower loiter time)

Unfortunately it is at a blog for US naval personnel. So will await clearance from the powers that be to post the link.

NRL Accepts Delivery of Navy's First CEC/HAWKEYE 2000 Equipped NP-3D

Residents of Southern Maryland might have noticed a strange silhouette flying in the skies over the Patuxent River Naval Air Station recently. Marking another Naval milestone, the Naval Research Laboratory recently accepted delivery of the Navy's first CEC/HAWKEYE 2000 equipped NP-3D. In an acceptance ceremony at Lockheed's Greenville, South Carolina rework facilities, NRL's Commanding Officer, Captain Bruce Buckley, heralded the mission capabilities the newly modified P-3 would bring to the Navy, not only in its present configuration, but as a platform for future Naval science and technology applications.

On top of the orange and white painted P-3 sits a radar dome similar to that found on E-2C Hawkeye Airborne Early Warning aircraft. Inside, not only does the P-3 contain the HAWKEYE 2000 airborne early warning suite, but also a Combined Engagement Capability (CEC) common equipment set, designed to provide battle force commanders with detailed battlespace updates.

P-3 aficionados may be interested to know that Airborne Surveillance Command and Control (ASC2) is achieved through numerous aircraft and missions systems modifications. The HAWKEYE 2000 system incorporates numerous enhancements, including CEC and a state-of-the-art computer that processes information to Advanced Control Indicator Set (ACIS) displays. Also included is a satellite communication suite, a fifteen-ton vapor cycle environmental control system (to meet the increased equipment cooling requirements), a fourth electrical generator, and the addition of a second ground power receptacle to meet the extraordinary AEW/CEC power requirements. The aircraft has wing wiring to support six external wing mounted pods, fore and aft mounted antenna platforms, a retractable infrared detection system (IRDS) and internal 115V/60hZ electronics equipment mounting areas. Intercom switches and navigational data are available at all stations.

The aircraft concept was developed jointly by teams at the Naval Research Laboratory, the Cooperative Engagement Capability program office (PMS-465) and the E-2C program office (PMA-231). Initial airworthiness tests are complete and the aircraft is now located at the Naval Research Laboratory Flight Support Detachment, NAS Patuxent River, MD for further ground and mission flight tests. As configured now, NRL's unique P-3 will enable command and control (C2), electronic warfare (EW), and electro-optics (EO) research and development well into the 21st century.


To view a pic click here.
 
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Below you can find a paper from SAAG on the impact of P3 orions. Its an old paper and I am sure most of u must have read it. Non the less its an interesting read. The AEW helo i was talking about was Kamov 31.


Paper no. 1235
28. 01. 2005

The impact of induction of the P3C Orion Aircraft on the Indian Navy’s Preparedness: An Assessment

by Commodore RS Vasan IN (Retd)

1. A lot of debate is taking place in the naval circles and amongst maritime analysts to understand the full impact of the induction of the P3C Orion in the sub continent. The deal worth over 1.3 billion US dollars has many more military sophisticated equipment. What however interests the maritime analysts is the inclusion of a major item in the form of eight Orion long range maritime aircraft which can be used for surveillance, Anti Sub marine warfare and Anti Surface warfare. Why is this raising the heckles in the Arabian Sea? To understand this and more there would be a need to look at the aircraft itself and then analyse the pattern of Naval Operations in the Arabian Sea.

2. A look at the P3C Orion. While the airframe and the design of the aircraft is quite old (almost four decades old), what is notable is the regular updates with which the aircraft has been rendered equal to the present day tasks. The US Navy itself has plans to use the aircraft for the next 15 years and expects to support the fleet elsewhere for another two decades plus. A total of over 480 Aircraft have been built to date since the first built some forty years ago.

3. The Pak Navy is expected to be the recipient of the updated P3C Orion aircraft with a capability that will add a great deal in terms of not just surveillance in the Indian Ocean but also in its ability to neutralize both the Indian Submarines deployed on offensive patrols along enemy coasts and the Surface Combatants who would be out there to exercise Sea Control. Both these missions are integral to most of the Navies of the world who are vested with responsibilities in the ocean areas of interest.

The Long Range Maritime Reconnaissance and Anti Submarine Warfare (LRMRASW) aircraft of the world are capable of undertaking multiple missions in wide areas of interests. With the addition of Air to Surface Missiles, the task of Anti Surface Warfare has now become integral to that of Anti Submarine operations.

4. The older Atlantique aircraft which the Pakistan Navy used in the past (Remember the one that was shot down close to our borders) also was equipped for both Anti Sub and Anti Surface Warfare operations. The P3C Orion is no different and is so designed to take on both these tasks. The effectiveness or otherwise of an aircraft like the P3C is largely dependent on the weapon +equipment mix as well as the crew efficiency to handle such technology and missions. The P3C has an array of equipment to enable it to patrol large areas at fairly high speeds. The details of the equipment are provided on open sites by the manufacturers namely Lockheed Martin. This is appended below:-

a) The IR Maverick Missile is an infrared-guided, rocket-propelled, air-to-ground missile for use against targets requiring considerable warhead penetration prior to detonation. The missile is capable of two pre-flight selectable modes of target tracking. The armor or land track mode is optimized for tracking land-based targets such as tanks or fortified emplacements. The ship track mode is optimized for tracking seaborne targets. The missile is capable of launch-and-leave operation. After launch, automatic missile guidance is provided by an imaging infrared energy sensing and homing device.

b) The AN/AAS-36A Infrared Detecting Set [IRDS] provides passive imaging of infrared wavelength radiation to visible light emanating from the terrain along the aircraft flight path for stand-off detection, tracking, and classification capability. The IRDS update will primarily consist of an improved A-focal lens.

c) The AN/AVX-1 Electro-Optical Sensor System [EOSS] is an airborne stabilized electro-optical system that provides video for surveillance and reconnaissance missions. The AN/AVX-1 EOSS has the capability to detect and monitor objects during the day from exceptionally clear to medium hazes, dawn and dusk, and during the night from a full moon to starlight illumination.

d) The AN/APS-137B (V) 5 Radar is capable of multimode operation to provide periscope and small target detection, navigation, weather avoidance, long range surface search and Synthetic Aperture Radar (SAR) and ISAR imaging modes. SAR provides detection, identification, and classification capability of stationary targets. ISAR provides detection, classification, and tracking capability against surface and surfaced submarine targets. The AN/APS-137B (V) 5 ISAR provides range, bearing, and positional data on all selected targets, and provides medium or high resolution images for display and recording.

e) The EP-2060 Pulse Analyzer works in conjunction with the AN/ALR-66C (V) 3 to detect, direction find, quantify, process, and display electromagnetic signals emitted by land, ship, and airborne radar systems.

f) Three Color High Resolution Display [CHRD] general purpose, dual channel, closed circuit units provide the operator with improved Operator-Machine-Interface and 1024 X 1280 pixel landscape orientation, improved response time to operator commands, and an increase of 300 percent in the video refresh rate to minimize display flicker. Five types of data may be displayed on the CHRD: cursors, cues, tableau, alerts, and raw video.

g) The Pilot Color High Resolution Display [PCHRD] provides the ability to display complex tactical and sensor information to the pilot station.

h) The Over-the-Horizon Airborne Sensor Information System [OASIS] III data is received and prepared for transmission via the OASIS III Tactical Data Processor (TDP). OASIS III processes and correlates all data provided via MATT and Mini-DAMA. The OASIS III TDP provides an Officer in Tactical Command Information Exchange System (OTCIXS) message link, coupled with GPS-aided targeting using the AN/APS-137B(V)5 Radar.

j) The OZ-72(V) Multi-Mission Advanced Tactical Terminal [MATT] system will provide Tactical Receive Equipment (TRE) capability to receive and decrypt three simultaneous channels of Tactical Data Information Exchange Subsystem (TADIXS-B), Tactical Related Applications (TRAP), and Tactical Information Broadcast Service (TIBS) information. The system will route the received broadcast data to the OASIS III for further processing.

k) The AN/USC-42(V) 3 Miniaturized Demand Assigned Multiple Access [Mini-DAMA] will provide for secure voice communications. Mini-DAMA provides for the transmission, reception, and decryption of OTCIXS data and the subsequent routing of that data to the OASIS III TDP.

l) The AN/AAR-47 Missile Warning System [MWS] is a passive electro-optical system designed to detect surface-to-air and air-to-air missiles. Upon detection of an incoming missile, the MWS will report the impending threat to the Countermeasures Dispensing System (CMDS).

m) The AN/ALE-47 Countermeasures Dispensing System [CMDS] will be used for dispensing flares, chaff, non-programmable expendable jammers, and programmable jammers.

n) The AN/ALR-66 C (V) 3 Electronic Support Measures Set provides all the same features as an AN/ALR-66 B (V) 3 ESM Set. However, the ALR-66 C (V) 3 Set incorporates the AS-105 spinning DF antenna and the Operational Flight Program is modified to accommodate this configuration difference. Also included is the EP-2060 Pulse Analyzer, an upgrade to the ULQ-16.

p) The Harpoon Missile with advanced features and an expected stand off range in excess of 100 kms.

5. While the details of equipment are applicable to an upgrade programme in the US, the specific equipment cleared for sale to PN is not yet clear. But it can be safely assumed that most of the above equipment and others that are not listed would indeed find its space in an Orion with the crescent and the star. The aircraft has been classified as a counter terrorism aircraft; some description indeed for an LRMRASWand ASUW aircraft! This description has surprised military analysts the world over.

6. Not withstanding the reasons for the sale of this high technology air asset, the fact of the matter is that the P3C Orion is here to stay and would be constantly factored in the tactical and strategic scenarios in the India Ocean.

7. The entire pattern of operations can be simply explained as follows:

>The aircraft based on intelligence is launched to a specific area. The P3C would transit at high speed using all the four engines to reach the area. On reaching the area it could shut down two of its engines to extend it’s loiter time by operating at Patrol speeds. The Avionics are operated as dictated by the tactical situation. Thus the aircraft could be operating the Radar selectively to prevent enemy Electronic Support Measures (ESM) equipment from detecting and tracking the source of transmission. Simultaneously, the aircraft would be using its own ESM equipment to detect and classify the presence of any hostile transmissions.

> The aircraft would methodically build a surface picture in the target area and also pass on the information in real time to the ground monitoring stations. With friendly inputs from Satellites it would be quite easy to correlate plots. The updated version is designed to be capable of net centric warfare .It is child’s play today to have such real time information including transfer of either synthetic or raw pictorial plots to the controlling stations. Certain missions would demand independent prosecution by the Aircraft itself where as certain other missions may demand a coordinated action by other Strike aircraft and Submarines.

>The aircraft has its own stand off Harpoon missile with a range in excess of 100 kms. So the aircraft would be able to release the missile on the target keeping well outside the SAM ranges. However, the aircraft could be vulnerable to integral (Carrier borne) aircraft depending on the scenario existing. Issues related to the Carrier operations are very frequently debated in the Pak online forums. The discussions on the Carrier Operations could form the subject of another analysis.

>As far as the Anti Sub marine operations are concerned, the range of Passive, Active Directional sonobuoys and the Magnetic detector that the aircraft carries provides it the wherewithal to keep probable areas of enemy Submarine deployment under active surveillance. The threat to the P3C would indeed be minimized as it would be operating close to its own shore and would be well with in its shore based fighter cover. On detection and localization, the aircraft has array of weapons including torpedoes and depth charges which could be released with great accuracy enabled by onboard sonic processors and mission computer systems.

The most important asset of the P3C Orion, in my opinion is the Inverted Synthetic.

Aperture Radar (ISAR) which makes it possible for the crew to identify the targets at well over missile release ranges. This does complicate the matters for the Surface Action Group (SAG) or a Carrier Battle Group (CBG) manoeuvring in the areas where Sea Control is desired.
>Similarly, the use of onboard chaffs and jammers would provide some sort of protection from missile (SAMs and AAMs).

In the light of above, let us see how the task of the IN is complicated in the Arabian

Sea and what counters are available to IN in the present context. The element of surprise is something that would be compromised as the P3C aircraft has the means to identify the surface targets at extended ranges. It would enable the planners in Pakistan to develop a surface picture that forewarns them of the possibilities related to a time frame. Thus the most essential aspect of ‘time and space’ in relation to surface dispositions would be known for mounting counter operations. This doubtlessly would affect the classical missions of Sea Control and Blockade.
It is not as if the entire advantage in the Arabian Sea is nullified in one stroke with the introduction of the Orion aircraft; after all, the IN has lived with the presence of the Atlantique aircraft which similarly threatened the surface forces and submarines in the past. The equation was also less favourable to the Indian Navy then with the absence of any credible air early warning with IN till just a couple of years ago.

The introduction of the KA 31Airborne Early Warning (AEW) Helicopters has provided that essential component in IN Fleet operations. With a claimed detection capability of over 100 to 150 kms, tracking ability of more than 40 tracks and the ability to operate from a variety of decks, this platform would provide many options for uninterrupted fleet operations. In the absence of any form of credible AEW, the fleet was mostly at a disadvantage pitted even against the older Atlantique .The Atlantique seemed to get in on many occasions without warning due to the limitations of Surface Radars. The surface radars in any case were detected by the airborne passive sensors well beyond their own detection ranges. This in the past had severely affected the effectiveness of deck launched interception by the Sea Harriers. The limited reaction time provided was inadequate to neutralize the threat before the snooper reached the missile release range.

The Sea Harriers would now be in a better position to be directed to the source of threat by the AEW Helicopter well before it reaches the weapon release mark. How would the IN cope with coordinated saturation attacks from many directions (for example by dozens of Mirages, Three to four P3C Orion’s and anything else that could be thrown in to the arena) would be a matter of clever tactics and battle of wits. The PN would like to see that the operation resembles the “peeling of the onion”, meaning that they would concentrate on taking out the pickets engaged in the outer periphery to protect the Carrier or any other Surface vessel till they reach the Carrier. The closer co operation between the IAF and the IN to optimize the reach of the Sukhoi aircraft and Tankers to take out the Orion in the initial stages would enable subsequent classical naval operation.

In conclusion, P3C Orion will definitely change the strategic and tactical dimensions of naval warfare in the Arabian Sea. The induction of high technology sensors and precision weapons endangers IN operations. The Navy doubtlessly would be busy in evaluating the changed parameters caused by this induction for developing counters to see that it continues to enjoy the maritime supremacy in the Arabian Sea.

(The author was the Regional Commander of the Coast Guard Region East. He earlier commanded two naval air stations and also the premier Long Range MRASW squadron of the Indian Navy. His email address is vasadri@yahoo.com )
 
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That covers the P-3 not the AEW variant.

The U.S. coastgaurd uses the P-3 Orion AEW variant in its fight against drug dealers.
 
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That covers the P-3 not the AEW variant.

The U.S. coastgaurd uses the P-3 Orion AEW variant in its fight against drug dealers.

Yep that only discusses the threat from the MPA variants of the P-3s....The Hawkeye2000 P3s should be able to give PN a very early warning of incoming attacks including those with CMs like BrahMos etc.

A very good defensive capability for a smaller navy like the PN.
 
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I am wondering if they are looking to have a "bastion" style defence for the coast line. And do they have another means to deliver stand off systems other than the P-3's? I know the naval arms currently operate the Mirage. However do they have anything new in the pipeline~?
 
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I am wondering if they are looking to have a "bastion" style defence for the coast line. And do they have another means to deliver stand off systems other than the P-3's? I know the naval arms currently operate the Mirage. However do they have anything new in the pipeline~?

Well the F-16 blk 52 is Harpoon capable and in addition to that, the JF-17 is also slated to be used in Maritime interdiction/ASh role. So I think the Mirage solution will give way to additional fighter aircraft being used to support PN. Also note that the current Mirages are operated by the PAF (No 8 Sqn) and not by the PN.
 
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they might wana reconsider deal with a good possibility of their EC-2C ended up in china. in turn, puts Taiwanese EC-2C under a great danger.
 
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Well I think there are probably gonna be restrictions on that kind of deal. As Pak has a large number of deals (as well as funding) at stake. I doubt they will want to jeopardise those by sending a radar system to China.
 
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Pakistan to get first P3 C aircraft on January 18

ISLAMABAD (January 14 2007): Pakistan will receive the first of the eight P3 C Orion aircraft acquired from the US on January 18, Naval Chief Admiral Afzal Tahir said Saturday, adding the new weapon system would help secure Pakistan's sea lines.

In an obvious reference to India's growing naval presence he said Pakistan can not afford to remain "oblivious of our traditional adversary when it comes to our security and sovereignty". "While formulating our defence strategy, the current and future development plans of our arch rival must be kept in view", he said.

The Chief of the Naval Staff Admiral Muhammad Afzal Tahir was addressing the Annual Efficiency Competition Parade and Awards Ceremony 2006 of Pakistan Navy Fleet, held at PN Dockyard in Karachi. A media release covering the function was distributed here Saturday by the Naval Headquarters.

Admiral Tahir further said that Pakistan has no aggressive designs yet it is vital to enhance our defence capability to protect our sovereignty and integrity. Pakistan Navy is, therefore, in a process to acquire modern weaponry and platforms.

He apprised that first of the eight P3 C Orion aircraft acquired from USA will land at naval air base Karachi on 18th of this month. Induction of this all weather aircraft will enhance Navy's reconnaissance, anti-submarine and anti-surface vessel operation capabilities, he added.

The naval chief said that with the development of Gwadar Port and expansion of maritime infrastructure at Karachi, Pakistan is on the threshold of becoming a major conduit for trade and commerce in the region. "This entails to have an efficient and strong navy to safeguard sea lines of communication and trade routes to ensure safe and secure economic activity".

The naval chief urged the officers and men to explore all avenues to support and nurture the Fleet and sustain its fighting efficiency. He reminded them that the modern Hi-Tec military hardware is not a panacea itself.

It is the trained manpower and professional competence of the fighting men and their resolve to protect the national interests at all costs, which ultimately makes the difference, he added. Admiral Tahir expressed his complete satisfaction over the performance of PN fleet and lauded the efforts of all concerned for successfully accomplishing all the operational objectives set for the previous year.

Earlier in his welcome address Commander Pakistan Fleet Rear Admiral Asaf Humayun recounted the operational achievements of the PN fleet. He said that participation of Pakistan Navy in major maritime exercises and continued contribution towards international war against terrorism not only proved its battle worthiness but also turned out to be highly beneficial for enhancement of its professional capabilities.

Later, the chief guest Admiral Muhammad Afzal Tahir gave away prizes to the winning units. In Destroyer Squadron PNS BABUR clinched the first position. In submarine Squadron PNA/M SAAD was proclaimed winner and in Aviation 111 SEAKING Squadron was adjudged the best and received the winning trophy. The large number of senior serving and retired officers and sailors of Pakistan Navy attended the ceremony

http://brecorder.com/index.php?id=517095&currPageNo=1&query=&search=&term=&supDate=
 
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Great News! However, haven't some of those Eight P-3Cs been delivered already? Also, on the DSCA website, there were 5 P-3H (upgraded P-3Cs, I think), that had been allocated to Pakistan (5-31-06). These aircraft have not been delivered yet; they have received authorization to be supplied.
 
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Does anyone know whether these planes will be used for mainly AEW or for surface monitoring?
 
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Does anyone know whether these planes will be used for mainly AEW or for surface monitoring?

Depends on which ones you are talking about.

The 8 P-3C Orions are LRMPAs. They are responsible for monitoring the maritime/litorral space. The 3 AEW aircraft in addition to the LRMPAs are for AEW capability. So this P-3C deal is essentially an 8+3 airframes deal.
 
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