PN buying 3 P-3 Orion based Hawkeye2000 AEW&C systems

[blain2]

As recent events at IDEAS 2006 have shown, Hawkeye2000 AEW OTH Radar on P3 is becoming a reality for the Pakistan Navy. This is a very substancial (quantum) leap in the PN capabilities.

Pakistan – E-2C Hawkeye 2000 Airborne Early Warning Suite for P-3s
WASHINGTON, December 07, 2006 - The Defense Security Cooperation Agency notified Congress of a possible Foreign Military Sale to Pakistan for refurbishment and modification of three excess P-3 aircraft with the E-2C HAWKEYE 2000 Airborne Early Warning (AEW) Suite, as well as associated equipment and services. The total value, if all options are exercised, could be as high as $855million.

The Government of Pakistan has requested a possible sale for refurbishment and modification of three excess P-3 aircraft with the E-2C HAWKEYE 2000 Airborne Early Warning (AEW) Suite, spare and repairs parts, simulators, support equipment, personnel training and training equipment, publications and technical data, system software development and installation, ground/flight testing of new systems and system modifications, U.S. Government and contractor engineering and logistics support services, and other related elements of logistics support. The estimated cost is $855 million.

This proposed sale will contribute to the foreign policy and national security of the United States by helping to improve the security of a friendly country that has been and continues to be an important force for economic progress in South Asia and a partner in the global war on terrorism. The command-and-control capabilities of these aircraft will improve Pakistan’s ability to restrict the littoral movement of terrorists along Pakistan’s southern border and ensure Pakistan’s overall ability to maintain integrity of its borders.

Pakistan intends to use the proposed equipment to develop an effective air defense network for its naval forces and provide an AEW surveillance and enhanced command, control, and communications capability. The addition of the AEW suites will provide Pakistan with search surveillance, and control capability in support of maritime interdiction operations. These aircraft will also increase Pakistan’s ability to support the U.S. Operation Enduring Freedom operations, and provide anti-ship and anti-submarine warfare capabilities; and a control capability over land against transnational terrorists and narcotics smugglers. The modernization will enhance the capabilities of the Pakistani Navy and support its regional influence and meet its legitimate self-defense needs. Pakistan will have no difficulty absorbing the AEW platform into its armed forces.

The proposed sale of this equipment and support will not affect the basic military balance in the region. The prime contractor will be Northrop Grumman Corporation, St. Augustine, Florida and Lockheed-Martin, Greenville, South Carolina. There are no known offset agreements proposed in connection with this potential sale. Implementation of this proposed sale will not require the assignment of any U.S. Government and contractor representatives to Pakistan. There will be no adverse impact on U.S. defense readiness as a result of this proposed sale. This notice of a potential sale is required by law; it does not mean that the sale has been concluded.

:flag:

 

[melb4aust]

Good news, a handy paltform for the navy i guess, plus Eireye and chinese awacs deal, all going in one hand.

 

[EagleEyes]

I knew that would be coming. Good for the navy.

However, i didn't like that we still couldn't get E-3C.

 

[TomCat111]

:flag:

US Cost Guard and HLS also use similar platforms.

 

[blain2]

I knew that would be coming. Good for the navy.

However, i didn't like that we still couldn't get E-3C.

Hawkeye2000 is actually fairly close to the Sentry in terms of performance.

 

[Neo]

Good for PN!

I remain rather sceptical though, we've already got the Erieye coming and a JV for further development of the Y-8 AWACS with the Chinese.

Earlier this year E-2C was evaluated along with B737 base AWACS and declined.
Why this renewd interest in yet another US platform?

Do we need three different platforms??

 

[Owais]

I knew that would be coming. Good for the navy.

However, i didn't like that we still couldn't get E-3C.

I agree with you. we need E-3C to counter phalcon threat.

 

[Tajammul Khan]

Not too long ago we all heard that Pakistan is to acquire 8 P3s and the 2 which they have would be upgraded. The news item is attached below

Pakistan Acquires U.S. P-3C Surveillance Aircraft
By REUTERS, ISLAMABAD



Pakistan, a key ally in the U.S.-led war on terrorism, said on Wednesday that it had acquired eight P-3C Orion surveillance aircraft from the United States, which would help boost its naval capabilities.
The Pentagon notified the U.S. Congress of the plan to supply the planes to Pakistan in November, raising concerns in Pakistan's rival and neighbor India which has since considered the aircraft for its own military.
The Pentagon said at the time the aircraft would improve Pakistan's border security and its ability to restrict movement of militants.
However, Pakistan Navy spokesman Captain Aamir Naeem Baig said the aircraft were designed for maritime surveillance and could not be used for chasing militants along the land border with Afghanistan, where Islamic guerrillas are most active.
A statement from the Pakistan Navy said the aircraft, worth up to $970 million, were being provided free by the United States and would be fitted with modern avionics and missions systems by the manufacturer, Lockheed Martin Corp.
The Bush administration also approved shipment of two F-16 fighter jets to Pakistan in July after Washington lifted a two-decade ban on the supply of the planes to Pakistan.
The policy charge was in recognition of Pakistan's role in helping the United States after the Sept. 11 attacks on U.S. cities in 2001.
Admiral Shahid Karimullah, Pakistan's chief of naval staff, said the Orions would "add a new dimension to the offensive punch of Pakistan Navy fleet".
Pakistan's fleet of P-3Cs now stands at 10 with the induction of eight new planes.

Kindly clearfy that the above mentioned deal is now cancelled and in its place we have chosen to acquire 3 P3 c with Hawkeye 2000 AEW suite.

Now agreed that hawkeye is a much better AEW suite than what the P3 originally had but at the same time P 3 was capable of carrying Anti ship & Anti Sub weapons as well,

Will the new aircrafts would carry the weapons or their role would be just Rcon and the 2 P 3 that were upgraded will they have the hawkeye 2000 suite

 

[blain2]

Good for PN!

I remain rather sceptical though, we've already got the Erieye coming and a JV for further development of the Y-8 AWACS with the Chinese.

Earlier this year E-2C was evaluated along with B737 base AWACS and declined.
Why this renewd interest in yet another US platform?

Do we need three different platforms??

The E-2C evaluated was not Hawkeye2000. Secondly, the platform failed the evaluation for PAF which has requirements other than what PN wants.

PAF and PN have different requirements and as such, it does make sense to have different platforms for them (or additional).

PN maintains its own P-3s and having a Saab 2000 in service would be an additional issue for PN to deal with. Having the airframe in service for over a decade has given PN pretty good experience with the P-3.

Erieye's performance is better than Hawkeyes in at least the northern areas (IIRC). Also PAF was able to customize the Erieye solution greatly (to the point that some of the customizations is getting retrofitted to the Swedish AF's Erieye fleet).

Chinese AEW&C solution at this point at least will not be flying in PAF colors...down the road, they may have a single platform serving in both PLAF and PAF.

 

[blain2]

Not too long ago we all heard that Pakistan is to acquire 8 P3s and the 2 which they have would be upgraded. The news item is attached below

Pakistan Acquires U.S. P-3C Surveillance Aircraft
By REUTERS, ISLAMABAD



Pakistan, a key ally in the U.S.-led war on terrorism, said on Wednesday that it had acquired eight P-3C Orion surveillance aircraft from the United States, which would help boost its naval capabilities.
The Pentagon notified the U.S. Congress of the plan to supply the planes to Pakistan in November, raising concerns in Pakistan's rival and neighbor India which has since considered the aircraft for its own military.
The Pentagon said at the time the aircraft would improve Pakistan's border security and its ability to restrict movement of militants.
However, Pakistan Navy spokesman Captain Aamir Naeem Baig said the aircraft were designed for maritime surveillance and could not be used for chasing militants along the land border with Afghanistan, where Islamic guerrillas are most active.
A statement from the Pakistan Navy said the aircraft, worth up to $970 million, were being provided free by the United States and would be fitted with modern avionics and missions systems by the manufacturer, Lockheed Martin Corp.
The Bush administration also approved shipment of two F-16 fighter jets to Pakistan in July after Washington lifted a two-decade ban on the supply of the planes to Pakistan.
The policy charge was in recognition of Pakistan's role in helping the United States after the Sept. 11 attacks on U.S. cities in 2001.
Admiral Shahid Karimullah, Pakistan's chief of naval staff, said the Orions would "add a new dimension to the offensive punch of Pakistan Navy fleet".
Pakistan's fleet of P-3Cs now stands at 10 with the induction of eight new planes.

Kindly clearfy that the above mentioned deal is now cancelled and in its place we have chosen to acquire 3 P3 c with Hawkeye 2000 AEW suite.

Now agreed that hawkeye is a much better AEW suite than what the P3 originally had but at the same time P 3 was capable of carrying Anti ship & Anti Sub weapons as well,

Will the new aircrafts would carry the weapons or their role would be just Rcon and the 2 P 3 that were upgraded will they have the hawkeye 2000 suite

Lets not confuse the issues here.

The deal for 8 P-3 orions is for the MPA (maritime patrol aircraft). This capability is an essential component of PN's ASW (Anti Submarine Warfare) and ASh (Anti-shipping) capability. These aircraft are capable of collecting intel/eavesdropping, target mapping and delivering munitions like Harpoon AShM and Mavericks. The AEW&C platform like Hawkeye2000 equipped P3s fulfill a different role than the P-3 MPAs which are directly involved in the interdiction of enemy shipping and sub-surface elements (submarines).

The requirement for AEW&C platform like Hawkeye2000 mounted on P3s allows PN early warning (out to 500 km from Pakistani littoral areas) and optimization of its air assets like the MPA fleet of the P3s, Atlantiques and Sea Kings as well as coordination of Naval Strike component like the No. 8 TAS sqn Mirage Vs armed with Exocet AShMs.

 

[Tajammul Khan]

Thanks Blain 2 for clearing the confusion

If you are correct than the PN would have a more than adequate AEW cover to eliminate the element of surprise of the IN, more over we would be in a better position to utilize our assets in the time of need and hence the naval blockade strategy can go in the recycle bin.

Again having said that it does not mean that we can go and blow IN away but we surely are now in a much better position to challange them (keeping a defensive posture)

Now the PN should try to concentrate on acquiring better air defnce capability.

I hope you are right Blain and the fact that we eventually get these systems both P3 cs MPA and P3 hawkeye and the capabilty to keep them serviceable.

 

[Contrarian]

Im pretty sure that this future planned acquisition of P3C AEW would give MoD a kick to evaluate the bids by Boeing and Lockheed for 8 of Navy's MPA. The Refurbished P3C, the one that has just been applied on all of USN's Orions and the P-8MMA are in contention.

 

[Tajammul Khan]

Sorry Malaymishra123 but i didn't get what you said. What do you mean by MoD and why would boieng & lockheed evaluate the bid for the 8 P3 MPA.

As far as my knowledge goes IN is not interested in P3C MPA but has shown interest in P 8 which is currently in development stage and would enter service (US Navy) not earlier than 2010, and full scale production would start from 2013.

IN has acquired ASW helos from Russia as astop gap measure till the time P 8 coes around.

 

[niaz]

Thanks Blain 2 for clearing the confusion

If you are correct than the PN would have a more than adequate AEW cover to eliminate the element of surprise of the IN, more over we would be in a better position to utilize our assets in the time of need and hence the naval blockade strategy can go in the recycle bin.

Again having said that it does not mean that we can go and blow IN away but we surely are now in a much better position to challange them (keeping a defensive posture)

Now the PN should try to concentrate on acquiring better air defnce capability.

I hope you are right Blain and the fact that we eventually get these systems both P3 cs MPA and P3 hawkeye and the capabilty to keep them serviceable.

Yes very good. Once 17/18 F-16 with Harpoons replace the Exocet carrying Mirage 111s, and with 5 Augusta Subs; PN can provide adequate protection of our sea lanes and economic zone.

 

[Contrarian]

Sorry Malaymishra123

LOL, you can just call me Malay, mate.

but i didn't get what you said. What do you mean by MoD and why would boieng & lockheed evaluate the bid for the 8 P3 MPA.

MoD is the Ministry of Defense(India).
The IN needed 8 Maritime Patrol Aircrafts, as it is phasing out the old Illushyn planes, so it issued the RFP for 8 MPA. Lockheed and Boeing have responded and accordingly submited the bids for their respective planes.

Lockheed : Refurbished P3C Orions. The P3C is an old plane. Lockheed completely refurbished all the USN's P3C's, and is offering the new P3C's to India with a different body ie there are some structural changes in the airframe of the plane along with completely new sensors and other equipment which has just been supplied to the USN.

They are very differnt from the P3C's that Pakistan has currently.

Boeing: P-8MMA. This is the new generation MPA which has almost finished its development. This plane is probably going to be inducted by the USN by 2010-2012.

Illushyn: Illushyn is also in the running for the MPA, however i donot know which plane of Il has been offered. I however think that the fight is essentially b/w the P3C and the P-8. Though we may all be surprised and the IN may go with this company.

As far as my knowledge goes IN is not interested in P3C MPA but has shown interest in P 8 which is currently in development stage and would enter service (US Navy) not earlier than 2010, and full scale production would start from 2013.

The IN has not shown interest as such, Boeing was offering the P-8 to India saying that it would be tailored for the IN requirements. It is now in contention with Lockheed. So the IN will most pobably go with either this or the P3C

IN has acquired ASW helos from Russia as astop gap measure till the time P 8 coes around.

This i dont remember. Let me search around.

http://www.financialexpress.com/fe_full_story.php?content_id=147934