PMLN Government Complete Failure on Power Generation - Off the Record June 22, 2015

[Strigon]

Lagta hai aap ka Islamabad ka phaira nhn laga sir jee!

You are right, no phaira. But I am intrigued by the mystery behind Isb phaira, do tell.

 

[Jango]

You are right, no phaira. But I am intrigued by the mystery behind Isb phaira, do tell.

As you said, people have taken that sarcastic option as a viable option.

More than half of the population on metro is taking joy rides (most of them are those infamous Pindi boy(z))....ogling at women etc etc.

Can't really blame them though...metros and flyovers aren't gonna educate you! They need soemthing to do...why not enjoy sometihng totally alien to Pakistan for just Rs 20?

 

[Strigon]

As you said, people have taken that sarcastic option as a viable option.

More than half of the population on metro is taking joy rides (most of them are those infamous Pindi boy(z))....ogling at women etc etc.

Can't really blame them though...metros and flyovers aren't gonna educate you! They need soemthing to do...why not enjoy sometihng totally alien to Pakistan for just Rs 20?

Hmmm, didn't expect my wild thoughts be already a daily practice over there. Yeah its been a while since I last saw Pak, much seems changed.

 

[mr.robot]

Only individuals with an IQ of less than 50 will fall for this pandering. Sadly, this means a lot of people given the lack of education in Pakistan.

The electricity issue in Pakistan can't be solved immediately, it will need at least 10 years of planning and doing for us to be able to cope with the growing demand and that is if we started working on all projects today. If you want to blame someone TODAY for the shortfall, the finger should be pointed at the governments that ruled Pakistan from 2000 - 2010.

But that doesn't make for masala news so let's sit here and blame PMLN for their inability to produce electricity out of thin air in two years. Last i heard, we are in the negative by 6000 MW. Good luck getting that removed in 2, 3, or even 5 years lol.

So, let's riot in the streets and get this government toppled and than riot in the streets again in two years when the next government can't perform miracles. Pakistan gets the leaders it deserves. Always have and always win until we change our mindsets.

(We didn't even talk about whether our infrastructure can handle the additional load, that's a whole another issue.)

People with 150+ I.Q should tell us that we can not even dissect their policies or remind them of their promises or change their name? They are facing what they used to do in PPP's tenure. There aren't much "masala" news now because a friendly media and judiciary is there. Otherwise failure of Nandipur and shady deal of LNG would be making splash every day in form of sou moto and as a discussion in Aaj Kamran Khan ke Sath.

 

[NaMaloom]

one can show visuals, PTI can only talk on the talk shows , Punjab govt is paying attention for power generation , more than 100 billion is allocated for power sector in this budget , how much by KP govt just 3 billion rupees . so end of the day PTI only talks .

Allocated? And what is the result? Watch the program once again, Asad Umar put a hot steel rod up PMLN's butt in the show. PMLN has NO answers, only cheap claims.

 

[xyxmt]

Thinking any govt will be able to control power shortages with the limited resources you have is nothing more than beganey ka khwab. You population is increasing, you cannot control your labido but you want govt to provide you free water, cheap food and good health care. Thanks to China a motor cycle mechanic can now buy an air conditioner and you see 2 and three air conditioners in 120 yard house. You power need are growing exponentially while govt resources are still the same but infect decreasing since now they have more power, tax and plain and simple...thieves

 

[ziaulislam]

nandipur runs on gas and there is no gas..
if you run it on diesel it costs 42 rs..

there is right way and the shortcut that will only lead the loadshedding again as soon as oil hits 100.

LNG is not the future because our mix already has 60% gas/oil share..we need 20-30% share from cheaper source like coal.

what PML N needs to do is to
1. allow/fast track current private investment coal projects
2. revive ghaddani project by investing in coal jetty and transmission lines
3. fast tract tarbela IV and V(tarbela V delayed as WAPDA wants it via WB route rather than govt to govt austrian deal)
4. fast track Dasu instead of delaying it, its already 2 years behind schedule
5. works on small less than 100mw hydro projects that were proposed by SHYDO(a total of 800mw)
6. allow Asian bank smart meter investment that its refusing
7. privatize distribution ASAP
8. form a coal investment bank for thar coal as to provide equity to engro so it can work on phase 2
9. fast track coastal nuclear plants that are build with help of 100% chinese loan
10. instead of going for LNG work on rehabilating already shut down 6000mw DESCOs

having said PML N atleast allowed coal projects which PPPP was refusing to allow on pretext of thar coal, so there are atleast some what better than them

every body knew about nandipur fate even before it was built, we knew that it was useless investment of 50 billion rupees, better to have built a 200 mw coal plant near karachi on that price..

yes it would be useful once gas becomes available but our electricity is way expensive as we have only expensive energy in our mix..i think we are the greenst country on earth when it comes to power sector

power is job of central govt, lets not talk about PTI until they get a central govt which i doubt is even possible with current two party mindsets of our people

Thinking any govt will be able to control power shortages with the limited resources you have is nothing more than beganey ka khwab. You population is increasing, you cannot control your labido but you want govt to provide you free water, cheap food and good health care. Thanks to China a motor cycle mechanic can now buy an air conditioner and you see 2 and three air conditioners in 120 yard house. You power need are growing exponentially while govt resources are still the same but infect decreasing since now they have more power, tax and plain and simple...thieves

you enough resources, its pirotization and policy making that is a mess.
e.g

1. smart meters 100% offered by asian bank but refused by govt? this alon will solve 50% problem
2. receivables of over 300 billion but govt doing nothing to get them instead allowing an amnesty of 30
3. you have federal budget of 500 billion you put a side 200 billion for infrastuture but can put forward addtional 100 billion for power?
4. you are refusing loans for hydro projects?
5. NEPRA is too slow in tarrif for coal projects?
6. already running projects are stopped for no reason including Dasu?
7. the list is long

 

[Peaceful Civilian]

But they promised many times that they will end loadshedding within 3 months. Otherwise shahbaz sharif said change his name if we don't end load shedding ..Now, 2 years gone.

 

[I FLY HIGH]

nandipur runs on gas and there is no gas..
if you run it on diesel it costs 42 rs..

there is right way and the shortcut that will only lead the loadshedding again as soon as oil hits 100.

LNG is not the future because our mix already has 60% gas/oil share..we need 20-30% share from cheaper source like coal.

what PML N needs to do is to
1. allow/fast track current private investment coal projects
2. revive ghaddani project by investing in coal jetty and transmission lines
3. fast tract tarbela IV and V(tarbela V delayed as WAPDA wants it via WB route rather than govt to govt austrian deal)
4. fast track Dasu instead of delaying it, its already 2 years behind schedule
5. works on small less than 100mw hydro projects that were proposed by SHYDO(a total of 800mw)
6. allow Asian bank smart meter investment that its refusing
7. privatize distribution ASAP
8. form a coal investment bank for thar coal as to provide equity to engro so it can work on phase 2
9. fast track coastal nuclear plants that are build with help of 100% chinese loan
10. instead of going for LNG work on rehabilating already shut down 6000mw DESCOs

having said PML N atleast allowed coal projects which PPPP was refusing to allow on pretext of thar coal, so there are atleast some what better than them

every body knew about nandipur fate even before it was built, we knew that it was useless investment of 50 billion rupees, better to have built a 200 mw coal plant near karachi on that price..

yes it would be useful once gas becomes available but our electricity is way expensive as we have only expensive energy in our mix..i think we are the greenst country on earth when it comes to power sector

power is job of central govt, lets not talk about PTI until they get a central govt which i doubt is even possible with current two party mindsets of our people


you enough resources, its pirotization and policy making that is a mess.
e.g

1. smart meters 100% offered by asian bank but refused by govt? this alon will solve 50% problem
2. receivables of over 300 billion but govt doing nothing to get them instead allowing an amnesty of 30
3. you have federal budget of 500 billion you put a side 200 billion for infrastuture but can put forward addtional 100 billion for power?
4. you are refusing loans for hydro projects?
5. NEPRA is too slow in tarrif for coal projects?
6. already running projects are stopped for no reason including Dasu?
7. the list is long

1- Gaddani is off the table but Sahiwal and port Qasim power plants are on the cards with chineese investment. (1300+1300 mwatts)
2- Terbella 4 is quite on target .1400 mwatts
3- LNG based power plant is a good and quick solution to the issue , if govt produces 3600 mwatts even at the rate of Rs 12 /kwt hr , it is good enough as it can benefit the local consumer and industry as well .
4- Nandi pur is on trial runs and is producing about 40 mwtt , in a month or two it can be run on its full load 450 to 500 mwatts , it can be run on LNG and furnace oil as well .
5- Qaid e Azam solar park is 100 mwatts(peak )now and in a years time it will produce another 500 mwatts .
6- About neelam jehlum govt has allocated 11 billion PKr in the budget which is less , only this project worries me . Should have allocated more to get it done next year .(960 mwatts)
So altogether all these projects are 9560 mwatts and max in 2017 these must be completed , if all these are completed there can be a good relief in the power crises . It is doable but the govt has to do it on priority basis .

 

[Jazzbot]

@SBD-3 @cb4 @Fracker @Tameem @AdeelFaheem @Muhammad Omer


Zinda ho? Ya sher kha geya?

 

[ziaulislam]

1- Gaddani is off the table but Sahiwal and port Qasim power plants are on the cards with chineese investment. (1300+1300 mwatts)
2- Terbella 4 is quite on target .1400 mwatts
3- LNG based power plant is a good and quick solution to the issue , if govt produces 3600 mwatts even at the rate of Rs 12 /kwt hr , it is good enough as it can benefit the local consumer and industry as well .
4- Nandi pur is on trial runs and is producing about 40 mwtt , in a month or two it can be run on its full load 450 to 500 mwatts , it can be run on LNG and furnace oil as well .
5- Qaid e Azam solar park is 100 mwatts(peak )now and in a years time it will produce another 500 mwatts .
6- About neelam jehlum govt has allocated 11 billion PKr in the budget which is less , only this project worries me . Should have allocated more to get it done next year .(960 mwatts)
So altogether all these projects are 9560 mwatts and max in 2017 these must be completed , if all these are completed there can be a good relief in the power crises . It is doable but the govt has to do it on priority basis .

1.port qasim is old project on cards at PPPP era but was on hold, so basically just 1300mw sahiwal project can that subsitutue 6600mw ghaddani?!
2. Tarbela IV is on target due to release of additional 50 million dollars to make up lost time, i am talking of tarbela V
3.yes LNG costs 12 rs NOW which is already expensive, once oil hits 100, it will cost non affordable 20 rs and govt will have it pants down, well the next govt; as oil prices will take time to go up may be 2-3 years
4. its odd that nandipur is on trial run for 6-7 months, are they testing a jet fighter..there is no gas!!!
5. a good project, a little expensive for my taste though cost is around 16 rs
6. govt is out of money is looking to privatize it , google the news

we dont need 10,000mw of power, we need 10,000 mw of affordable power, there is difference...how is this different from rental power fix PPPP came up with....its unfortunate that PPPP hadnt had low oil prices with them..so how come PML N is than better than PPPP..PML N is going against its own promises it made in its manifesto about coal,affordable power and energy

 

[I FLY HIGH]

1.port qasim is old project on cards at PPPP era but was on hold, so basically just 1300mw sahiwal project can that subsitutue 6600mw ghaddani?!
2. Tarbela IV is on target due to release of additional 50 million dollars to make up lost time, i am talking of tarbela V
3.yes LNG costs 12 rs NOW which is already expensive, once oil hits 100, it will cost non affordable 20 rs and govt will have it pants down, well the next govt; as oil prices will take time to go up may be 2-3 years
4. its odd that nandipur is on trial run for 6-7 months, are they testing a jet fighter..there is no gas!!!
5. a good project, a little expensive for my taste though cost is around 16 rs
6. govt is out of money is looking to privatize it , google the news

we dont need 10,000mw of power, we need 10,000 mw of affordable power, there is difference...how is this different from rental power fix PPPP came up with....its unfortunate that PPPP hadnt had low oil prices with them..so how come PML N is than better than PPPP..PML N is going against its own promises it made in its manifesto about coal,affordable power and energy

1- Port qasim execution is being done now and was not executed in PPP times . Gaddani was taken up by govt but was put down by chinese , now what is left is 1300 port qasim , 1300 sahiwal , 300 makrwal (choa saidan shah),thar 660mwatts it is 3560 mwatts . it is not a bad figure either .
2-so u agree that 1400 mwatts cheap power terbella 4 is on time with additional funds availability.
3- Well LNG is a quick and good solution, Rs 12 /kwhr is based on spot price on which Lng shipment is coming in now, when the deal of stock buying goes through it would not be more than Rs 10/kwhr which is quite affordable . Coming on your hypothesis that if after 2-3 years the OIL rates goes to 100 $/barrel, it would increase the price of one kwt hr by 30 percent to the maximum which will increase the rate to Rs 13/khr. Even then this is a good enough .
4- Nandi pur had an issue when purchased had no facility to purify furnace oil , thats why it could run on gas and diesel only . Now the purification unit is there installed and after that trial runs started on the furnace oil which is taking time . Now 40 mwatts will gradually be raised to 450 to 500 mwatts . it can also run on LNG .
5-cost of QA solar power is not Rs 16 /kwhr but is Rs 13.50/kwhr .
6-yes i am disappointed on this project as it should be given priority as it can generate 960 mwatts .
7-I missed sukhi kinari 870 mwatts project which was earth breaked by chinese president .Karot power 700 mwatts is close to roll on as it is approved by chineese .
8- 2100 mwatts nuclear power is aso earth breaked which has a completion date 2018 -2019.
Our shortage in peak times is 5000 mwatts and sub total of all the projects under construction is 13780 mwatts and most of these will be completed in 2017 -2018 . This is a good going i would say .

 

[notorious_eagle]

1- Port qasim execution is being done now and was not executed in PPP times . Gaddani was taken up by govt but was put down by chinese , now what is left is 1300 port qasim , 1300 sahiwal , 300 makrwal (choa saidan shah),thar 660mwatts it is 3560 mwatts . it is not a bad figure either .
2-so u agree that 1400 mwatts cheap power terbella 4 is on time with additional funds availability.
3- Well LNG is a quick and good solution, Rs 12 /kwhr is based on spot price on which Lng shipment is coming in now, when the deal of stock buying goes through it would not be more than Rs 10/kwhr which is quite affordable . Coming on your hypothesis that if after 2-3 years the OIL rates goes to 100 $/barrel, it would increase the price of one kwt hr by 30 percent to the maximum which will increase the rate to Rs 13/khr. Even then this is a good enough .
4- Nandi pur had an issue when purchased had no facility to purify furnace oil , thats why it could run on gas and diesel only . Now the purification unit is there installed and after that trial runs started on the furnace oil which is taking time . Now 40 mwatts will gradually be raised to 450 to 500 mwatts . it can also run on LNG .
5-cost of QA solar power is not Rs 16 /kwhr but is Rs 13.50/kwhr .
6-yes i am disappointed on this project as it should be given priority as it can generate 960 mwatts .
7-I missed sukhi kinari 870 mwatts project which was earth breaked by chinese president .Karot power 700 mwatts is close to roll on as it is approved by chineese .
8- 2100 mwatts nuclear power is aso earth breaked which has a completion date 2018 -2019.
Our shortage in peak times is 5000 mwatts and sub total of all the projects under construction is 13780 mwatts and most of these will be completed in 2017 -2018 . This is a good going i would say .

Khuwab udhuray tu sahi, saharay tu hain

 

[I FLY HIGH]

Khuwab udhuray tu sahi, saharay tu hain

tundi yay bad e mukhalif se na ghabra aye uqaab yeh to chalti hai tujhay uncha uranay ke liyay .

 

[ziaulislam]

1- Port qasim execution is being done now and was not executed in PPP times . Gaddani was taken up by govt but was put down by chinese , now what is left is 1300 port qasim , 1300 sahiwal , 300 makrwal (choa saidan shah),thar 660mwatts it is 3560 mwatts . it is not a bad figure either .
2-so u agree that 1400 mwatts cheap power terbella 4 is on time with additional funds availability.
3- Well LNG is a quick and good solution, Rs 12 /kwhr is based on spot price on which Lng shipment is coming in now, when the deal of stock buying goes through it would not be more than Rs 10/kwhr which is quite affordable . Coming on your hypothesis that if after 2-3 years the OIL rates goes to 100 $/barrel, it would increase the price of one kwt hr by 30 percent to the maximum which will increase the rate to Rs 13/khr. Even then this is a good enough .
4- Nandi pur had an issue when purchased had no facility to purify furnace oil , thats why it could run on gas and diesel only . Now the purification unit is there installed and after that trial runs started on the furnace oil which is taking time . Now 40 mwatts will gradually be raised to 450 to 500 mwatts . it can also run on LNG .
5-cost of QA solar power is not Rs 16 /kwhr but is Rs 13.50/kwhr .
6-yes i am disappointed on this project as it should be given priority as it can generate 960 mwatts .
7-I missed sukhi kinari 870 mwatts project which was earth breaked by chinese president .Karot power 700 mwatts is close to roll on as it is approved by chineese .
8- 2100 mwatts nuclear power is aso earth breaked which has a completion date 2018 -2019.
Our shortage in peak times is 5000 mwatts and sub total of all the projects under construction is 13780 mwatts and most of these will be completed in 2017 -2018 . This is a good going i would say .

lets talk about projects that will be completed before 2018 for argument base, as that the time frame we want.
only coal/lng/solar can be completed in that time frame.

my objection to govt policy can be summarized
1. reluctance of facilitating coal projects, instead moving towards; from vision and promises to political motivation(coal to LNG)
2. reluctance in reforms in distribution sector.


regarding your points

1.you can easily find the port qasim project being there since 2008 blocked by PPPP, just google it
2. tarbela 100% WB funding was secured by PPPP even though i hate them full credit goes to them, what PML N did was to waste 50 million dollars but WB allowed it as it argued it will save more in early completion
5. solar tarrif is determined for individual project based upon return rates of 20% so far every project tarrif in southern region is 19.2 rs/kwr for first 10 years and 10 rs for next 15 years with levelised rate of 15.78 rs/kwhr, northern isnt much different
see the attached NEPRA official stamped documentation page 52
in short solar is very unfordable in our current mix but a good short fix
http://www.nepra.org.pk/Tariff/Upfront/2015/Determination of NEPRA in Upfront Tariff for Solar PV Power Plants.pdf

this is special case other wise i dont bother quoting source for every thing..

i think PML N will bridge the gap via LNG but i want them to do it via coal as LNG is nt sustainable once oil prices pass 100$

govt is completely depending upon private investment, nearly all of the so called hydro projects had their feasibility in mushi era, and letter of intent to financial closure in PPPP era

govt focus is infrastructure rather than affordable power as its politically logical to do so, since oil prices are down for few years