PM KHAN rejected to receive phone call from 2nd tier leadership of USA!

[PakFactor]

We shouldn't see this from the Pakistani lens but the American. Looking through the American lens it is clear to me what they are doing.

Firstly, it has nothing to do with Biden personally. The Americans have a pretty robust establishment too and Biden is an establishment guy. So whatever policy we are seeing is a well-debated policy that is not going to change by tiny actions.

The policy being make India the sherriff of Asia:
1. Downgrade all ties with Pakistan and force Pakistan to deal with India directly, and not expect any mediation or anything from the US. Pakistan has demands? Send them through India. Yes, that's what I think the policy is.
2. Build up India against China - this is the obvious part.

I believe the intent is to force us to choose a side in the US China spat. US will not accept a neutral Pakistan and it's the old "you're either with us or against us" policy.

The reason they can be so blunt with Pakistan is that they have very little interest in Pakistan anymore. They can very easily do nothing in Afghanistan, let shit hit the fan, and blame Pakistan. Win win for them.

Unfortunately, we are in a precarious situation trying to stay relevant to the US so that it doesn't make India the unopposed sherriff. What we will offer is anybody's guess.

Option 1: Pakistan joins China camp. India is America's sherriff. Everything in Afghanistan is blamed on Pakistan.
Option 2: Pakistan attempts to stay neutral by offering USA a base or two in secret. In return USA still talks to us directly. But we will still get blamed for Afghanistan because the bases are secret (because of obvious public pressure).
Optipn 3: Pakistan joins the US camp and openly gives bases to the US. This will be a post-911-lite. Will keep us relevant to the US but there will be serious internal political consequences.


As it is always with Pakistan, there are no great options, just less bad ones.

Think it’s about time Pakistan stop trying to be relevant to the U.S. and think of its own interests foremost. Pakistan and China can’t be separated their is just to much at risk, in terms of economics and military. We have to understand none will have our back like the Chinese and that goes without saying. Joining the U.S. it’s done Pakistan internally and externally more harm than it did any good since Liaqat Ali Khans blunder. I mean providing U-2 bases and all what did it bring us? You don’t bring a snake into your house and expect it to act outside its natural instincts.

Pakistan has the option not to detach completely but downgrade its activity with the U.S., reduce its embassy presence.

Regardless, what we might think U.S. will pimp the neighbor to our East, due to U.S. tilt towards the pacific. Hence, we don’t need to lower ourselves to stay relevant or better way to say it to - look relevant, this way you look more pathetic that you should.

 

[JamD]

good decision and i guess normal too, it will cost US more than Pakistan.

Us need Pakistan more than Pakistan needs US. Pakistan is already out of their allies group long ago so we have nothing to lose in relations with a declining country like US.

US-Pakistan talks on military bases reach impasse: report

The CIA used a base in Pakistan to launch drone strikes against militants but was kicked out in 2011, NYT reports.

www.dawn.com

The report notes that Pakistan’s government “refused to publicly acknowledge that it was allowing the CIA operations and “will want to proceed cautiously” with a new relationship. — AFP
WASHINGTON: The United States continues to focus on Pakistan for a military base in the region, although some American officials believe the negotiations have reached an impasse for now, The New York Times reported on Monday.
The US intelligence agency CIA did use a base in Pakistan to launch drone strikes against militants but “was kicked out of the facility in 2011, when US relations with Pakistan unraveled,” the report adds.
“Some American officials (told the newspaper) that negotiations with Pakistan had reached an impasse for now. Others have said the option remains on the table and a deal is possible,” the report explains.
According to NYT, William J. Burns, the CIA director, recently made an unannounced visit to Islamabad to meet the chief of the Pakistani military and the head of the directorate of Inter-Services Intelligence. US Defence Secretary Lloyd J. Austin also has had frequent calls with the Pakistani military chief about getting the country’s help for future US operations in Afghanistan.
Mr Burns did not bring up the base issue during his trip to Pakistan as the visit focused on broader counterterrorism cooperation but “some of Mr Austin’s discussions have been more direct,” the report adds.
Analysing Pakistan’s reluctance in offering a base to the US, the report notes that “the government in Islamabad is unlikely to sign off on any US strikes against the Taliban that are launched from a base in Pakistan.”
Yet, “some American officials believe Pakistan wants to allow US access to a base if it can control how it is used,” the report adds while pointing out that “public opinion in the country has been strongly against any renewed presence by the United States.”
The report also quotes from Foreign Minister Shah Mehmood Qureshi’s speech in the parliament last month, saying that “no US base will be allowed by Prime Minister Imran Khan so long he isThe report points out that the CIA used the Shamsi air base in Balochistan to carry out hundreds of drone strikes during a surge that began in 2008. The strikes focused primarily on suspected Al Qaeda operatives in Pakistan’s mountainous tribal areas, but they also crossed the border into Afghanistan.
The report notes that Pakistan’s government “refused to publicly acknowledge that it was allowing the CIA operations and “will want to proceed cautiously” with a new relationship.
The report claims that in discussions with American officials, “the Pakistanis have demanded a variety of restrictions in exchange for the use of a base in the country, and they have effectively required that they sign off on any targets that either the CIA or the military would want to hit inside Afghanistan.”
Published in Dawn, June 8th, 2021

 

[Ghessan]

so far decision is good, but the thing is it shows how serious US is to talk to Pakistan which is minimal. since we do not know why they were contacting which may be anything but from the silence since Biden being president: it seems they are contacting just for their own need which they have from Pakistan and that is Afghanistan.

one thing is clear from this contact if it does happen, they have workout all, the level of relationship with Pakistan. even they have figured out to what extent they will take our demands in their books.

hence what ever message we convey to them by showing our seriousness of having talks, they have decided and it probably is transactional. although things do change due to circumstances at hand.

these unannounced visits must also stop and message must be conveyed to the US govt of no serving of future unannounced visits. govt must convey, any contact should be through foreign office.

here establishment must also take a stand and do not make contacts on casual scale.

i do not know what homework we have done beyond rejecting contacts from second tier leadership. i don't think we have many cards to play instead US has many cards to play.

 

[JamD]

Think it’s about time Pakistan stop trying to be relevant to the U.S. and think of its own interests foremost. Pakistan and China can’t be separated their is just to much at risk, in terms of economics and military. We have to understand none will have our back like the Chinese and that goes without saying. Joining the U.S. it’s done Pakistan internally and externally more harm than it did any good since Liaqat Ali Khans blunder. I mean providing U-2 based and all what did it bring us? You don’t bring a snake into your house and expect it to act outside its natural instincts.

Pakistan has the option not to detach completely but downgrade its activity with the U.S., reduce its embassy presence.

Regardless, what we might think U.S. will pimp the neighbor to our East, due to U.S. tilt towards the pacific. Hence, we don’t need to lower ourselves to stay relevant or better way to say it to - look revenant, this way you look more pathetic that you should.

I agree with your views in principal but reality isn't so black and white for us. The fact is that USA still has way more international clout than China. For example, once the USA decided we were going into the FATF grey list, China couldn't really save us. So I am very sure that we will try our best to stay neutral as has been said by multiple officials on multiple occasions.

The link to the article I just posted points towards Pakistan attempting option 2 in my post.

 

[Adecypher]

The link to the article I just posted points towards Pakistan attempting option 2 in my post.

So can you also enlighten us how Pakistan can keep giving "a base or two" to US as a secret to avoid a blowback from political as well as internal security perspective...I mean the method have to be really "air-tight" and its kind of taking a "blue pill" yet again given the "obvious repercussions"...

 

[JamD]

So can you also enlighten us how Pakistan can keep giving "a base or two" to US secret to avoid a blowback from political as well as internal security perspective...

Internal - The government denies the shit out of it like it did post 9-11. It worked for 10 years until Shamsi was discovered.
External - Keeps the US engaged, but only barely.

I never said it's a great option, just a possible option that I think our establishment is trying to pursue.

 

[PakFactor]

I agree with your views in principal but reality isn't so black and white for us. The fact is that USA still has way more international clout than China. For example, once the USA decided we were going into the FATF grey list, China couldn't really save us. So I am very sure that we will try our best to stay neutral as has been said by multiple officials on multiple occasions.

The link to the article I just posted points towards Pakistan attempting option 2 in my post.

How long can you stay neutral in a power struggle? Eventually, you will be pulled to one side over the other. We ended up fighting the USSR anyways and we were pulled into the U.S. camp. Playing the neutral card while occupying a key geographical location wouldn’t cut it.

Don’t forget we’re already been threatened by the Talibans if we or another other regional country provide any logistics to the Americans we will become target number one. While the Americans be secure 12,000 away we will take the brunt of these attacks. Was the life’s lost last 2 decades worth it. Would this bloodshed be worth it? If we host them.

To much at stake to appease the Americans.

Other option we have is to divert their attention away and have both China and U.S. eye ball each other. Engineer a conflict behind the scenes and let our problems be solved outside of our border region.

 

[Adecypher]

Internal - The government denies the shit out of it like it did post 9-11. It worked for 10 years until Shamsi was discovered.
External - Keeps the US engaged, but only barely.

I never said it's a great option, just a possible option that I think our establishment is trying to pursue.

My goodness me...do you have ANY idea how different the circumstances are from right after Post 9/11 and now? the variables to choose were NOT that many then...Pakistan had to ride the wave of "War on Terror"...

 

[-blitzkrieg-]

Don't lie. It is famous saying of mosmi support infact noonleagi say this all the time..( I was supporter of ik and this and that. Try to find new arrangemen.

bhuhahaha
lol people here know who i support.
see my signature.. anyways, its fine if you dont believe me.

 

[H!TchHiker]

Lol...if US really wants something or have some requirement from pakistan they won't call PMIK
..

 

[waz]

Pakistan doesnt have anything left to offer USA after it leaves AFG.If pak leaves chinese alliance/vassalage USA might engage them respectfully,but that'll never happen.Otherwise for USA its a case of 'used up napkin'.You cant join chinese camp and expect yankees to not **** with you.Its only the beginning,once USA is out of AFG ,pakistan could get sanctioned depending on how much it helps taliban in AFG.

Your post is devoid of reality.
The reality is that the US isn’t leaving as such, what you see is physical infrastructure pulled. There’s so much more.
That they went to central Asian states who gave a firm no to any bases.
Also they are being sidelined in the region very quickly, most in part due to the present administration’s attitude.
Your comments about sanctions is a mix of jingoistic Indian nationalism to see Pakistan fall, and a complete ignorance of the region where you have no connection, synergy etc.
Your post can also be turned around as India now finds itself trying to balance its relationship with Russia and the US.

US-Pakistan talks on military bases reach impasse: report

The CIA used a base in Pakistan to launch drone strikes against militants but was kicked out in 2011, NYT reports.

www.dawn.com

The report notes that Pakistan’s government “refused to publicly acknowledge that it was allowing the CIA operations and “will want to proceed cautiously” with a new relationship. — AFP
WASHINGTON: The United States continues to focus on Pakistan for a military base in the region, although some American officials believe the negotiations have reached an impasse for now, The New York Times reported on Monday.
The US intelligence agency CIA did use a base in Pakistan to launch drone strikes against militants but “was kicked out of the facility in 2011, when US relations with Pakistan unraveled,” the report adds.
“Some American officials (told the newspaper) that negotiations with Pakistan had reached an impasse for now. Others have said the option remains on the table and a deal is possible,” the report explains.
According to NYT, William J. Burns, the CIA director, recently made an unannounced visit to Islamabad to meet the chief of the Pakistani military and the head of the directorate of Inter-Services Intelligence. US Defence Secretary Lloyd J. Austin also has had frequent calls with the Pakistani military chief about getting the country’s help for future US operations in Afghanistan.
Mr Burns did not bring up the base issue during his trip to Pakistan as the visit focused on broader counterterrorism cooperation but “some of Mr Austin’s discussions have been more direct,” the report adds.
Analysing Pakistan’s reluctance in offering a base to the US, the report notes that “the government in Islamabad is unlikely to sign off on any US strikes against the Taliban that are launched from a base in Pakistan.”
Yet, “some American officials believe Pakistan wants to allow US access to a base if it can control how it is used,” the report adds while pointing out that “public opinion in the country has been strongly against any renewed presence by the United States.”
The report also quotes from Foreign Minister Shah Mehmood Qureshi’s speech in the parliament last month, saying that “no US base will be allowed by Prime Minister Imran Khan so long he isThe report points out that the CIA used the Shamsi air base in Balochistan to carry out hundreds of drone strikes during a surge that began in 2008. The strikes focused primarily on suspected Al Qaeda operatives in Pakistan’s mountainous tribal areas, but they also crossed the border into Afghanistan.
The report notes that Pakistan’s government “refused to publicly acknowledge that it was allowing the CIA operations and “will want to proceed cautiously” with a new relationship.
The report claims that in discussions with American officials, “the Pakistanis have demanded a variety of restrictions in exchange for the use of a base in the country, and they have effectively required that they sign off on any targets that either the CIA or the military would want to hit inside Afghanistan.”
Published in Dawn, June 8th, 2021

More of the latest news.

 

[VCheng]

Hey, what you say buddies? Always so vocal on this forum. We need your input here now.

@KAL-EL @Hamartia Antidote @Tank131 @RabzonKhan @VCheng

If PMIK feels that this approach is what serves Pakistan's national interests the best, then we must respect his choices. After all, he also has the responsibility for whatever decisions are taken.

 

[mudas777]

Lol...if US really wants something or have some requirement from pakistan they won't call PMIK
..

Because they know it when you can't go through then use someone who they have bought out in establishment or civil service cedar to go round and ignore the protocols as they are used to having their ways before. But in the bigger picture bottom line is under no circumstances Pakistan should allow any base in any shape or form even if we have control on conditions based actions. Once they are inside the country then its impossible to control them like Musharaf gave them a narrow define area of operation and then guess what they were not really following the agreement.
Anyway its matter of our sovereignty and our interests which doesn't coincide with theirs. If they are so keen in having a base in Pakistan we can accommodate their wish then we have got 2 items on our wish list too. India leaves Kashmir in 72 hours and Israel leaves Occupied lands in 48 hours, you scratch my back i will do the same. Afghanistan is their security concern and its their war on terror we already have fought our war and buried 70,000 loved ones and don't wish to do so any more.

 

[VCheng]

If they are so keen in having a base in Pakistan we can accommodate their wish then we have got 2 items on our wish list too. India leaves Kashmir in 72 hours and Israel leaves Occupied lands in 48 hours, you scratch my back i will do the same.

I'd rather wish for all the debt to be removed, but that is just me, I suppose.

 

[Cash GK]

I agree with your views in principal but reality isn't so black and white for us. The fact is that USA still has way more international clout than China. For example, once the USA decided we were going into the FATF grey list, China couldn't really save us. So I am very sure that we will try our best to stay neutral as has been said by multiple officials on multiple occasions.

The link to the article I just posted points towards Pakistan attempting option 2 in my post.

USA knows if they put pak in red list which is atomic power. Then pak will be free to use its proxies . So they will keep blackmailing pakistan which is good plan for them. They will not Take That risk when they know what are pakistan's authorities in muslim world.