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PM Imran Khan vs Opposition No Confidence Vote- Updates and Discussion

Master stoke

  • Right decision

  • Wrong decision

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Chak Bamu said:
You just need to wake up from your delusions.

When US diplomats meet your favorite politician there is nothing wrong, but should they meet (it is their actual job, BTW) other politicians, then it is a grand conspiracy. How is this supposed to work? Is your bias the sole arbiter here or what?

You don't need memory loss. You just need a dose of reality to wake you up from your delusions.

Here, read this just so you know how diplomats work: https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-last-diplomat-1480695454

This is about Robin Raphel who spent much time in Pakistan & had relations with many politicians in Pakistan. Notice how she filed a report about IK's 2014 dharna & correctly predicted that it would fizzle out despite backing from elements within the army? This is how diplomats operate & this is how State Department, MoFA, MoEA, or whatever else you call it in any country uses its diplomats on the ground - to know what is going on in any other country so that they may help that country take correct decisions. Also note that how Robin Raphel was in turn targeted by Homeland Security for having contacts in Pakistan on suspicion of being an agent for Pakistan's government. So all it takes is a nutcase to make a bad case (in your case it is IK) & to show you a conspiracy where people are just being themselves & doing their jobs.

PDM is victorious. Mostly likely these people will go on to make the next government. It is important for Pakistan that they are able to deal with American diplomats & it is equally important for American diplomats to know who to talk to & what is important to them. This is how diplomacy works. This is how formal & informal channels work. I know that CIA also works via American diplomats. But that is no reason to shut US embassy & send everyone home. All countries work with diplomats & operatives both in their countries & in other countries. You do not get to have total control just because you are paranoid.
Click to expand...

So "do more" is diplomatic? Is this this the type of diplomacy that is acceptable to you?

No one asking for shutting down of embassies but just dont say how high when they ask you to jump, makes you look a fool in front of everyone else.

What is your opinion on horse trading? Or do our ethics differ on this?

I feel like I've just done rewind back to 2014.
 
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Welcome to purana Pakistan:

IMG-20220408-WA0000.jpg


Hmmm good old memories 🤔
Reviving again! 🥳
It's Sharif Republic of Pakistan!

The tribal population should migrate to the US or at least get a good life insurance now 💥☠️
 
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This is an important video


Uzma Kardar is a very very loyal IK supporter and I believe everything she is saying here.
 
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IK should immediately dismiss COAS and DG ISI. Appoint new ones with DG ISI from non military background. Launch FIRs against MNAs and arrest 70+ of them including opposition parties leaders.

Let the voting be failed against IK then.

Speaker should rule Supreme Court decision unconstitutional, heavily criticize courts for their misbehaviour and gross violation of the article 69 and order FIA for probe against the concerned judges for deliberately issuing decision order as per Shahbaz wish list. Put Lahore High court on notice to produce Nawaz Sharif in the court as it was their decision to let him go abroad. There should be a complete crack down on each and every Govt Dept

Implement a ban on all grade 18 or above officers to have family members, businesses, accomodations abroad in the west even after 10 years of retirement.
All of them who have already done it before, their records to be scrutinized, financial statements audited and give them option of either return to Pakistan or confiscate all their assets in Pakistan and cancel their Pakistani nationality
 
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Few analyses appearing on media.

Due to court order Vote of No Confidence (VNC) must take place.
As a result the LOTAS will be exposed (they have not been exposed yet).
If VNC fails, speaker can adjourn the assembly session.
If VNC succeeds, the session must continue (without any delay or break) to elect the new leader of the house.

Now! .... here lies the "potential" trap (as set by SC).

If, between success of VNC and election of new leader of the house (new PM), the speaker disqualifies all the LOTAS, then new PM may not have enough votes required to be the PM.
By elections, on the vacant seats of LOTAS, will be carried out. These seats are highly likely to be won by PTI.

This is what I have understood.

Note!
  • SC has not said there was no external conspiracy.
  • SC has not said, there was no corruption and bribes have not been paid to assembly members.
 
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What kind of ethically low grade judges they are that they welcome stooge Shahbhaz Sharif to speak in the court and asked him to give his suggestions. Same Shehbaz Sharif who is on the bail and than praises stooge Bilawal Kay app ky khandhan ki teen naaslo ny law Ki khidmut Ki hai. Yes the same law which welcomes a murderer who fled to Dubai and welcomed by Sindh govt law minister at Karachi airport so that he can vote against IK and give respect to the constitution. What a joke.

Verve said:
Speaker would send notice to ECP to disqualify them. That's normal process however Minority seats MNAs can be removed by party leader and replaced, and others who won on PTI ticket (not independents) therefore they can be thrown out of PTI as well. I am just trying to understand the implications of this internal party action on them retaining their MNA seat.
Click to expand...
They all will be protected by the opposition. They will not vote since opp. already have 176 number count. Since they will not vote, crime won't be committed hence no legal action either.
 
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Menace2Society said:
So "do more" is diplomatic? Is this this the type of diplomacy that is acceptable to you?

No one asking for shutting down of embassies but just dont say how high when they ask you to jump, makes you look a fool in front of everyone else.

What is your opinion on horse trading? Or do our ethics differ on this?

I feel like I've just done rewind back to 2014.
Click to expand...
Relations between states is dependent upon relative power (economic, diplomatic, moral, military) and need. When Americans told us to do more, they were displaying their relative strength. We had two options - either we could grow strong somehow, or take the pressure, deflect it, & create opportunities. Guess what did we do? We chose to stay dependent upon Americans (aid, trade, & 'others' benefits) and undermine Americans while appearing to be on their side. Americans hated us for it. So, if you are not strong yourself because you believe every charlatan (Mushy, IK) who comes along with a promise of strong leadership, then you deserve to be dictated to.

So, if you do not know how to manage your Current Account Deficit, you'd better not strut around like a fool. If you can not wean yourself from American aid & trade, you'd better not try to be the Sheriff. This is how Pakistanis manage to look like a fool in front of everyone else. Diplomacy is all about dealing with situations in an intelligent manner, not by acting like a peacock.

My opinion on horse trading is that you need to find out what is happening in Sri Lanka. The ruling party lost a bunch of its parliament members to opposition because they can not face their constituents if they continue to support their ineffective & inept President. If you were not blind, you would actually see the parallels with Pakistan here. Our Constitution provides us with meaningful safeguards against floor-crossing. But these safeguards are reasonable & have been addressed in courts. The system works well as intended. But when you are hung up on propaganda cola, no one can make you see reality. The trouble with you is that you are so taken in by IK's charisma & halo effect that you gladly accept whatever story he feeds you. I know parliamentarians who have been banging their heads against the proverbial wall & not getting anywhere. Nobody listens to them & they have zero say in policy-making. They are under tremendous pressure from their constituents. If these people vote for change at the cost of their seat, you can not blame them.

Moreover, have you wondered about the inherent contradictions in all the claims that IK & his courtiers have been making? You sure are not if you straight up ask me about 'horse trading'. First, an MPA or MNA is not bought & sold like cattle. They join this or that camp/party/coalition. Before they commit, they are free to go any which way for whatever reason. 14th amendment bars them from switching parties once they have committed (before election as party member or after elections as an independent candidate). 18th amendment modified some relevant clauses, but on the whole the system is well founded. An MPA or MNA can go against his party & then go through a process whereby he / she needs to explains their position. If a leader is an idiot like IK, then it is only natural that there would come a time when members of his party would rebel at their own cost. This decision would not be taken lightly because there are going to be repercussions. A politicians has to weight pros & cons before making a call. His survival as a politician depends upon the quality of his decision making. People do not forget, regardless of how much you have been brainwashed to think of them as chattel.
..............................................................................

I actually came to enjoy the meltdowns & the general display of cognitive dissonance (delicious & yummy), but here I am explaining stuff as though I am a class teacher. LOL.... I never learn.
 
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Chak Bamu said:
You just need to wake up from your delusions.

When US diplomats meet your favorite politician there is nothing wrong, but should they meet (it is their actual job, BTW) other politicians, then it is a grand conspiracy. How is this supposed to work? Is your bias the sole arbiter here or what?

You don't need memory loss. You just need a dose of reality to wake you up from your delusions.

Here, read this just so you know how diplomats work: https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-last-diplomat-1480695454

This is about Robin Raphel who spent much time in Pakistan & had relations with many politicians in Pakistan. Notice how she filed a report about IK's 2014 dharna & correctly predicted that it would fizzle out despite backing from elements within the army? This is how diplomats operate & this is how State Department, MoFA, MoEA, or whatever else you call it in any country uses its diplomats on the ground - to know what is going on in any other country so that they may help that country take correct decisions. Also note that how Robin Raphel was in turn targeted by Homeland Security for having contacts in Pakistan on suspicion of being an agent for Pakistan's government. So all it takes is a nutcase to make a bad case (in your case it is IK) & to show you a conspiracy where people are just being themselves & doing their jobs.

PDM is victorious. Mostly likely these people will go on to make the next government. It is important for Pakistan that they are able to deal with American diplomats & it is equally important for American diplomats to know who to talk to & what is important to them. This is how diplomacy works. This is how formal & informal channels work. I know that CIA also works via American diplomats. But that is no reason to shut US embassy & send everyone home. All countries work with diplomats & operatives both in their countries & in other countries. You do not get to have total control just because you are paranoid.
Click to expand...
Well too late to argue all these fine points...it seems well settled..

Now with IK's ousting...when the gang of looters come back...and they plague Pakistan the same as before...those who are against PTI/IK now will then have no one to blame but themselves.
 
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LeGenD said:
Lack of political will to condemn Russia for invading Ukraine.
Click to expand...
Condemnation is nothing if we take into account of how we have served those masters. Get our thousands of people killed, hosted terror attacks on our soil for US invasion on Afghanistan. And Chinese never twisted our arm to condemn what the US was doing in Afghanistan and Pakistan. US/NATO killed our helpless soldiers and we silently protested by temporarily blocking their diapers and food supplies through our land. We never condemned their Iraq misadventures.

First of all kindly elaborate a bit. The military operations on Afghanistan, Pakistan, Iraq, Libya. What should we call them as per your thoughts? A rehab, reforms, freedom, liberation or invasion???
 
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