PLA to buy 700 stealth fighters, says Jane's Defence Weekly

[Penguin]

Australia’s First F-35A Takes to the Skies

FORT WORTH, Texas – Australia’s first Lockheed Martin F-35A Lightning II Joint Strike Fighter made its inaugural flight on Sept. 29, marking another significant milestone for the Royal Australian Air Force’s F-35 program. Lockheed Martin F-35 Chief Test Pilot Alan Norman, piloted the aircraft through a series of functional checks for the sortie that lasted two hours.

The aircraft, known as AU-1, is scheduled for delivery to the Royal Australian Air Force later this year and will be assigned to Luke Air Force Base, Arizona. Australia and partner countries will use the jet for F-35A pilot training.

The F-35 Lightning II aircraft provides the Royal Australian Air Force with a transformational 5th generation fighter capability and significant benefits for the Australian aerospace industry. Australian industry already has more than $412 million (USD) contracted.

The F-35 Lightning II is the world’s most advanced military aircraft and for more than a decade, the U.S. and its allies have invested in developing this fifth-generation, international, multirole fighter aircraft serving as a cornerstone of global security in the 21st century.

Another example: the aircraft is operational, but an operational Australian squadron has yet to be formed.

 

[Genesis]

seems reasonable, maybe, but I must add, we have 700+ fourth gen fighters now, so we would only buy the exact same amount when we are much stronger? Especially considering we "only" have 700+ fourth gen is because we stopped importing engines and want to use our own, which is a still work in progress.

 

[UKBengali]

its from China itself....

now you can decide whether they're stupid or not....

Chengdu Aircraft Industry Group to produce 1,200 J-10 fighters

Chengdu Aircraft Industry Group to produce 1,200 J-10 fighters｜Politics｜News｜WantChinaTimes.com

I think they're going to make atleast 800 J-10 as they've massive amount of 3rd gen aircrafts to replace...

and you mean within less than a decade,China will make 1000 stealth jets??100 jets per year??its a bit too early to reach that conclusion.plus,what are your source??or its just your assumption???

Not it is not from someone like the head of the Chinese air-force so it is just someone's guess you quoted.

Dude you need to try to use mathematics to reason. Think of it this way, if China is going to actually build 1200 J-10s then it would either need to ramp up production massively from the current rate or keep building them for the next 20 years. That seems illogical.

And what makes you think that China cannot build 100 stealth jets a year? China has both the money and the facilities so it can easily be done. They will build in small numbers at first and could drastically increase production to more than 100 planes a year within a few years as the production matures.

And the US is likely to have 2000 stealth planes by 2030 at current plans so why would China, which is trying to become a peer to the US as soon as possible, restrict itself to only 700 stealth planes while building 2000 4th generation planes?

You need to get out of rehashing what others say and think for yourself dude

 

[Penguin]

more than 100 aircraft have been delivered and are being flown by U.S. and international pilots at six locations in the United States.

5 Things You Might Not Know About the F-35 · Lockheed Martin

As the F-35 Lightning II program progresses, more bases around the country are flying the aircraft. At test sites, the Integrated Training Center and the first operational base, the U.S. Air Force, Navy and Marine Corps as well as international partners are experiencing the 5th Generation capability of the F-35. In addition to the military bases, F-35s also fly from Lockheed Martin's shared runway with NAS Fort Worth JRB in Texas

• Edwards Air Force Base, Calif.

• Naval Air Station Patuxent River, Md.

• Eglin Air Force Base, Fla.

• Marine Corps Air Station Yuma, Ariz.

• Nellis Air Force Base, Nev.

• Luke Air Force Base, Ariz.

• Marine Corps Air Station Beaufort, S.C.

About: Who's Flying | F-35 Lightning II

The Integrated Training Center at Eglin Air Force Base, Fla., is home to pilot and maintainer training for all three variants of the F-35 Lightning II. The U.S. Air Force, Navy and Marine Corps, together with international partners, are co-located at Eglin; two Dutch F-35As and three U.K. F-35B aircraft are also located at the base.

About: Who's Flying: Eglin | F-35 Lightning II

Marine Corps Air Station Yuma is located in Yuma, Arizona, and is home to the first operational Marine Corps F-35 squadron.

https://www.f35.com/about/who-is-flying/Yuma

First operational F-35B squadron on track to meet deployment standards
IHS Jane's Defence Weekly // September 14, 2014
Pilots at Marine Fighter Attack Squadron 121, the US Marine Corps' (USMC's) first operational squadron of Lockheed Martin F-35 Lightning II Joint Strike Fighters began training in early September to the standards required for the jump-jet version of the aircraft's initial operational capability (IOC) declaration, according to the squadron's pilots and leaders.
"We shifted into IOC training last week," Lieutenant Colonel Steve Gillette, the squadron's commanding officer, told IHS Jane's on 12 September. He explained that the skills checklist the pilots are training to now features more specific and rigorous standards than it did when they first began flying the F-35 in 2012.
After taking over command of the squadron in 2013, Lieut. Col. Gillette began overseeing the move to the more detailed IOC-specific training and readiness standards. "The big difference between what we were doing then and what we're doing now is the rigidity of the standards we're holding people to in order to call a [training] event complete," he explained. Eight pilots in the squadron must master the entire training package in time for the planned July 2015 IOC declaration, he added.
Read the full story from IHS Jane's Defence Weekly.

First operational F-35B squadron on track to meet deployment standards | F-35 Lightning II

Top 35 F-35 Photos · Lockheed Martin

 

[english_man]

Australia’s First F-35A Takes to the Skies



Another example: the aircraft is operational, but an operational Australian squadron has yet to be formed.

Strange.....that the Aussies, have bought the F-35.........as a few years ago, when they were assessing whether the F-35 would be any good for them, and having set up simulation tests of the F-35 vs Russian and Chinese jets..........they found out that in a combat scenario the F-35's would be totally wiped out. In fact the official report, stated that the F-35 was so useless in battle, that it was deemed that it was akin 'to clubbing baby seals'!

So, why did Australia buy this flying coffin???..............perhaps massive political pressure from the US?..........seems like some people got a nice backhander here eh?

 

[GR!FF!N]

you don't have subs to carry ICBM.

wait my friend.I'm talking about possibility.theoretically,we don't even have SSBN,until Arihant enters service.

 

[GR!FF!N]

Not it is not from someone like the head of the Chinese air-force so it is just someone's guess you quoted.

Dude you need to try to use mathematics to reason. Think of it this way, if China is going to actually build 1200 J-10s then it would either need to ramp up production massively from the current rate or keep building them for the next 20 years. That seems illogical.

And what makes you think that China cannot build 100 stealth jets a year? China has both the money and the facilities so it can easily be done. They will build in small numbers at first and could drastically increase production to more than 100 planes a year within a few years as the production matures.

And the US is likely to have 2000 stealth planes by 2030 at current plans so why would China, which is trying to become a peer to the US as soon as possible, restrict itself to only 700 stealth planes while building 2000 4th generation planes?

You need to get out of rehashing what others say and think for yourself dude

lets estimate something....

China has some 1000 3rd gen jets to replace.
Stealth Jet production will probably start after 2021.
when Stealth Jet production will start,they'll still induct many 4th gen jets like J-15,J-16 etc.

and if you're thinking post 2020,PLAAF will go full stealth,you're wrong.except USA,which is using steal jets for nearly 30 years,nobody,not even PLAAF are thinking for same.the reason is simple.PLAAF is under transformation.they're the Airforce which is trying to maintain its number of aircraft as they're retiring massive amount of 3rd gen jets.nobody simply jumps from 3rd to 5th gen.they'll induct 4th gen to replace 3rd gen and 5th gen to replace older 4th gen jets.this is how things gets worked out.

about 100 aircraft per year,who told you I don't believe they can??but the production always starts slowly and later in picks up pace.but even then,when you don't have massive order on one type of aircraft in hand,nobody invests so much that they'd produce so many aircrafts per year.its only as extraordinary as a Lockheed Facility with massive amount of automation which can produce so much for now and targeting to make 1 per day after 2016.

and USA is not buying 2000 stealth jets within 2030.are you nuts??they're projecting this for the whole lifetime scale to USAF+Navy+Marines(figure is some 2414 or something like this).

and do you even understand what it means to produce 2700 jets within say 16 years??USA is true Superpower in Arms industry.they produced 1 ship per day during WW II.but nobody,and I repeat,nobody has the power to come close to USA in this sector.they achieved it because USA produces more than half the weapons sold to the world.in 2011,USA got nearly 80% share of world market.in compare to that,what is China's or Russia's market??except some handful of years,its USA who beat other competitors hand down.

plus,Chinese Jet Makers??and you're comparing them with Lockheed Martin's Capability??dude,Lockheed Martin is world's Largest Arms company(by employee,its Boeing).

I studied how to make sustained production,what is optimum production rate etc.thats why I know what I'm saying.you should tally the facts before making empire in the sky.

 

[Infra_Man99]

I challenge you to quote my alleged China bashing. Be my guest.


See Original post
PLA to buy 700 stealth fighters, says Jane's Defence Weekly | Page 2

It only provides some information, there is not 'tone' to begin with. Our chinese fellow poster sees fit to react to that in said manner. No surprise I change tone when responding to that. Do I recognize a banned user under different guise in your post?

Operational aircraft (device) and operational squadrons (unit) are 2 different things, imho. If 100 have been produced, more than 0 are operational by now. Check any aircraft type's history. However, that does not necessarily equate to combat ready squadron(s) in the various services. Happy now?

Thanks for your explanation.

Recently, the F-35 experienced major engine problems that should be fixed by the end of 2014. Here is one article out of many:

Bogdan: F-35 Engine Fix May be Ready by Year’s End
Bogdan: F-35 Engine Fix May be Ready by Year's End | DoD Buzz

Here are some lines from the above article:

[start of quote]

The Pentagon hasn’t released an official cause of the engine fire that led to a temporary grounding of the F-35 fleet and ongoing flying restrictions for the Lockheed Martin Corp.-made aircraft. A so-called root cause analysis is expected by the end of the month. Officials have traced the problem to “excessive rubbing” during an earlier test flight between a titanium fan blade and surrounding material, a synthetic polymer known as polyamide.

Three weeks before the F-35A conventional Air Force model aircraft caught fire during takeoff June 23 at Eglin Air Force Base, Florida, it was flown in a manner designed to test the performance of its g-force, roll and yaw within designed limits known as the flight envelope.

While the maneuver only last two seconds or so, it triggered an unexpectedly high level of rubbing between the titanium blade in the fan section of the F135 engine and the polyamide. The metal reached temperatures of as high as 1,900 degrees Fahrenheit — compared to the normal level of about 1,000 degrees — and resulted in micro-cracking.

[end of quote]

I'm intelligently guessing the F-35 jet and the F-35 squadron(s) are not operational or not completely ready as of now. The F-35 has a long history of being the most expensive weapons program, having lots of major problems that the US government reluctantly admits or frequently downplays, and enjoying lots of propaganda about how amazing it is.


You asked me if I am a banned user with a different guise. I have been using this user name for years on various websites. I was banned at SinoDefence forum or whatever it is called, because the moderators there disliked my criticisms of the US establishment. I was also at another ChineseDefense forum or whatever it is called, but a single moderator there repeatedly censored and edited my comments whenever I posted something that offended him. I'm not banned there, but I got tired of being censored and edited without my permission. Thus, I am here at defence.pk forum.


Are you satisfied with my explanations?

 

[j20blackdragon]

and do you even understand what it means to produce 2700 jets within say 16 years??USA is true Superpower in Arms industry.they produced 1 ship per day during WW II.but nobody,and I repeat,nobody has the power to come close to USA in this sector.they achieved it because USA produces more than half the weapons sold to the world.in 2011,USA got nearly 80% share of world market.in compare to that,what is China's or Russia's market??except some handful of years,its USA who beat other competitors hand down.

plus,Chinese Jet Makers??and you're comparing them with Lockheed Martin's Capability??dude,Lockheed Martin is world's Largest Arms company(by employee,its Boeing).

I studied how to make sustained production,what is optimum production rate etc.thats why I know what I'm saying.you should tally the facts before making empire in the sky.

You could have said the same thing about the Chinese auto and shipbuilding industries 10 years ago.

2013 Statistics | OICA

http://www.statista.com/graphic/1/263895/shipbuilding-nations-worldwide-by-cgt.jpg

And you would have been wrong. China has taken the lead in both. Aerospace is next. The Chinese government has deep pockets.

 

[GR!FF!N]

You could have said the same thing about the Chinese auto and shipbuilding industries 10 years ago.

2013 Statistics | OICA

http://www.statista.com/graphic/1/263895/shipbuilding-nations-worldwide-by-cgt.jpg

And you would have been wrong. China has taken the lead in both. Aerospace is next. The Chinese government has deep pockets.

you do understand that Selling Cars and Military Jets are completely different,right??it just not needs a Good Fighter Jets,but also quite a political leverage to sell it.Co-op with various countries on economical sector is fine,when it comes to military,foreign policy and proper leverage makes the difference.

Just take the case of Turkey.yet to sell the S-300 copy,right??you'll face same kind of difficulty in Africa too,where the prospect of selling Chinese Arms is most bright.and may I remind you,selling small arms has nothing to do with big budget sells like Aircraft,Warships and such.USA has total monopoly in this sector.even other makers like Russia,Britain and France are struggling.

by the way,could you confirm "1200 J-10s for PLAAF" news??and what is the current rate of J-10 production??and what your take on this news??are Jane's suggesting it'll be overall buy or just some period of say,10-15 years??

 

[The Unnamed]

Engine is still the achilies' heel for all asian countries except Japan.

Discuss all you want..engine is the key to any aircraft's performance. with Russia asking and counting every penny, the chinese stealth fighters and non stealth fighters will have these "operation unit" problems till the homegrown engines can truely replace the ones on J series crafts.

 

[Penguin]

I'm intelligently guessing the F-35 jet and the F-35 squadron(s) are not operational or not completely ready as of now. The F-35 has a long history of being the most expensive weapons program, having lots of major problems that the US government reluctantly admits or frequently downplays, and enjoying lots of propaganda about how amazing it is.

I think this illustrates quite well what the difference between an operational squadron and IOC is.
First operational F-35B squadron on track to meet deployment standards | F-35 Lightning II

 

[Infra_Man99]

I think this illustrates quite well what the difference between an operational squadron and IOC is.
First operational F-35B squadron on track to meet deployment standards | F-35 Lightning II

I understand the industry and military definitions, but I'm going to stick with standard English or colloquial English definitions.

 

[j20blackdragon]

you do understand that Selling Cars and Military Jets are completely different,right??it just not needs a Good Fighter Jets,but also quite a political leverage to sell it.Co-op with various countries on economical sector is fine,when it comes to military,foreign policy and proper leverage makes the difference.

Just take the case of Turkey.yet to sell the S-300 copy,right??you'll face same kind of difficulty in Africa too,where the prospect of selling Chinese Arms is most bright.and may I remind you,selling small arms has nothing to do with big budget sells like Aircraft,Warships and such.USA has total monopoly in this sector.even other makers like Russia,Britain and France are struggling.

I'm sorry but the success of the J-20/J-31 will not depend on international sales. The one and only customer that is needed is the Chinese military. China becomes the world's largest PPP economy at the end of 2014. We can afford it if there is a need. I'm well aware that the Chinese aerospace industry is in its infancy. But like I said before, you could have said the same thing about automobiles and commercial shipbuilding 10 years ago. China grows fast, very fast.

 

[TimeTraveller]

Great for China..We can't afford 700+ Fifth generation planes...