PLA Presence in Northern Areas ? ? ?

[Patriot]

I don't think this news is true.If it was true i would see Indians wetting their pants running crazy in their country and their media crying that Pakistan and China will strike India jointly soon.
PS: I don't think you can feed this propaganda to any Pakistani.Pakistanis have nothing but affection for Chinese People.If it was some news like 11,000 US marines then people would be worried but not worried about Chinese as we know they won't do something wrong.

 

[Renegade]

[/COLOR]
It is not just his description of the situation in Baluchistan that appears biased an over the top, but his overall description of the Pakistani State.

The NYT op-ed piece is written by a man whose historical anti-Pakistan bias and agenda has been well established in the last couple of posts by Jan and myself, and the counter POV has been provided by multiple members on this thread.

The counter point of view provided is simply not convincing. I have said earlier and i am saying it again Tourist are not equal to Journalists. Mountaineers climbing K2 do not bring back news of ground realities in the region, they just bring back news of their accomplishments or failures.


Anyways this going nowhere. I have proof now that Foreign Journalists are not allowed in Gilgit-Baltistan. This was confirmed by none less than Mr.Tariq Azim, Information Minister under Musharraf on "Times Now" yesterday night. Here is the link for your benefit:

Debate: Pak allows China land grab?-1-The Newshour-TIMESNOW.tv - Latest Breaking News, Big News Stories, News Videos

Debate: Pak allows China land grab?-2-The Newshour-TIMESNOW.tv - Latest Breaking News, Big News Stories, News Videos




There are two interesting aspects to the above discussion on Times now:

1. Mr.Andrew K P Leung, International and Independent China specialist form Hong Kong, confirmed the presence of PLA troops in Gilgit-Baltistan, while the Pakistan foreign office has categorically denied it.

2. Mr.Azim has indeed confirmed reluctantly that Foreign Journalists are not allowed in Gilgit-Baltistan. This in itself proves that Mr.Selig Harrison is correct when he says,

"The entire western portion of Kashmir stretching from Gilgit in the north to Azad (Free) Kashmir in the south is closed to the world, in contrast to the media access that India permits in the eastern part, where it is combating a Pakistan-backed insurgency. But reports from a variety of foreign intelligence sources, Pakistani journalists and Pakistani human rights workers reveal two important new developments in Gilgit-Baltistan: a simmering rebellion against Pakistani rule and the influx of an estimated 7,000 to 11,000 soldiers of the People’s Liberation Army."

The above statement had been tightly contested by my Pakistani friends here, who not only ridiculed him but also accused him of bias in his reporting. I wonder what they have say now that very point that they had been trying to demolish him has fallen flat on its face.

Do watch the video, it is very informative.

 

[GUNNER]

China denies 'troops in Pakistan' report

Gillian Wong


China on Thursday dismissed reports saying troops of the People's Liberation Army are in a disputed area of Pakistan.

The New York Times ran an opinion piece last week which said up to 11,000 soldiers of the People's Liberation Army were in Gilgit, a northwest area of disputed Kashmir.

"The story that China has deployed some military in the northern part of Pakistan is totally groundless and out of ulterior purposes," Foreign Ministry spokeswoman Jiang Yu said at a regular briefing.

"Some people are making fabrications to destroy relations between China, Pakistan and India but their attempt will arrive nowhere," she said.

The piece by Selig Harrison, director of the Asia program at the US-based Center for International Policy, said China wants control of the region to get clear road and rail access to the Gulf through Pakistan.
It said many of the soldiers are working on a railway link.

The article comes amid reports of military unease between China and India.

Earlier this week China said it had not received word from New Delhi that it had suspended military exchanges, despite Indian media reports that relations had been put on hold after Beijing refused to grant a visa to a top Indian army general from the Indian-controlled part of Kashmir.

An anonymous senior Indian official was quoted in the Hindu newspaper on Saturday as saying that future military exchanges and a joint exercise between Indian and Chinese defence forces would remain suspended until China resolves the issue.

China's Ministry of National Defence said in a statement faxed to The Associated Press that it had not suspended the exchanges nor received word from India about any suspension.

Indian media reports said the suspension was New Delhi's response to Beijing denying a visa for Indian army Lt Gen B.S. Jaswal, who was scheduled to join a military delegation to China.

Jaswal was denied a visa because he is responsible for army operations in the Indian-controlled portion of Kashmir, the reports said.

 

[GUNNER]

I have said earlier and i am saying it again Tourist are not equal to Journalists. Mountaineers climbing K2 do not bring back news of ground realities in the region, they just bring back news of their accomplishments or failures.

That's a very weak and naive argument. Anyplace where foreign tourists are allowed to go, so are the Journalists. Ofcourse, there are areas on the border where they wouldn't be allowed. Neither are local tourists. Anyways, do you think if foreign journalists wanted to go into GB in guise of tourists, they couldn't? And that too when some of these journos have been sneaking into Tribal Areas, where actually no foreigners are allowed whether Tourists or Journos.

 

[GentlemanObserver]

The counter point of view provided is simply not convincing. I have said earlier and i am saying it again Tourist are not equal to Journalists. Mountaineers climbing K2 do not bring back news of ground realities in the region, they just bring back news of their accomplishments or failures.


Anyways this going nowhere. I have proof now that Foreign Journalists are not allowed in Gilgit-Baltistan. This was confirmed by none less than Mr.Tariq Azim, Information Minister under Musharraf on "Times Now" yesterday night. Here is the link for your benefit:

Debate: Pak allows China land grab?-1-The Newshour-TIMESNOW.tv - Latest Breaking News, Big News Stories, News Videos

Debate: Pak allows China land grab?-2-The Newshour-TIMESNOW.tv - Latest Breaking News, Big News Stories, News Videos




There are two interesting aspects to the above discussion on Times now:

1. Mr.Andrew K P Leung, International and Independent China specialist form Hong Kong, confirmed the presence of PLA troops in Gilgit-Baltistan, while the Pakistan foreign office has categorically denied it.

2. Mr.Azim has indeed confirmed reluctantly that Foreign Journalists are not allowed in Gilgit-Baltistan. This in itself proves that Mr.Selig Harrison is correct when he says,

"The entire western portion of Kashmir stretching from Gilgit in the north to Azad (Free) Kashmir in the south is closed to the world, in contrast to the media access that India permits in the eastern part, where it is combating a Pakistan-backed insurgency. But reports from a variety of foreign intelligence sources, Pakistani journalists and Pakistani human rights workers reveal two important new developments in Gilgit-Baltistan: a simmering rebellion against Pakistani rule and the influx of an estimated 7,000 to 11,000 soldiers of the People’s Liberation Army."

The above statement had been tightly contested by my Pakistani friends here, who not only ridiculed him but also accused him of bias in his reporting. I wonder what they have say now that very point that they had been trying to demolish him has fallen flat on its face.

Do watch the video, it is very informative.

Foreign Journalists are not allowed in Gilgit-Baltistan.

Utter nonsense:

Foreign journalists are allowed to Chitral, Gilgit and Baltistan, they need a permit but ARE allowed. Here is an article from marie Clare magazine on a Gilgit-Chitral Female Search and Rescue Team:
Female Search-and-Rescue Team in Pakistan - Marie Claire

Furthermore Gilgit and Baltistan is a region popular with climbers and expedition leaders, it has no political value to the western world, hence you will never see any mention of the area in western press.

However, Indian press on the other hand. Do a quick goggle search and you come up with 800 results of Indian blogs and newspapers claiming "Pakistan giving defactor control of Gilgit and Baltistan" to China...

Hey guess what, we have American's running a Police training centre on the outskirts of Islamabad, FBI have a field office in each international airport and a special Anti-Terrorism Assistance program liasion office is run in Islamabad.

Does not mean we have given "de facto" control of Islamabad to the American's... Get Real people! I am sometimes quite perplexed at the mentality of some posters here.

You lambaste "ZZH" as a conspiracy nut and loon "rightly or wrongly" so, (not my place to decide) yet there is a relentless effort to find the next conspiracy twist of Pakistan plotting a grand scheme to destroy India.

Get real people, in case you have been sleeping for the year gone by, we have enough on our plates. I have never seen any posts about Gilgit or Chitral or Baltistan by Indians on this forum, up until the last few weeks and month or so.

Give it a rest! Many Thanks!

 

[CardSharp]

Here is an article from marie Clare magazine on a Gilgit-Chitral Female Search and Rescue Team:
Female Search-and-Rescue Team in Pakistan - Marie Claire

Those are some pretty heroic ladies

 

[Renegade]

That's a very weak and naive argument. Anyplace where foreign tourists are allowed to go, so are the Journalists. Ofcourse, there are areas on the border where they wouldn't be allowed. Neither are local tourists. Anyways, do you think if foreign journalists wanted to go into GB in guise of tourists, they couldn't? And that too when some of these journos have been sneaking into Tribal Areas, where actually no foreigners are allowed whether Tourists or Journos.

Ok let's say hypothetically that it is a naive argument. But what do you have to say about Mr.Azim's statement?

Watch the video, that's what the link is for. Stop beating about the bush. This whole debate is centered around weather "foreign journalists" are allowed into Gilgit-Baltistan or not. My Pakistani friends in their earlier posts said they were but Mr.Azim says that they are not and this is precisely what Selig Harrison has stated in the NYT article.

Address the main issue. Journalists running in the guise of tourists is not being discussed here. I was just making a point with that example & you took it up as the core issue.

 

[Renegade]

Utter nonsense:

Foreign journalists are allowed to Chitral, Gilgit and Baltistan, they need a permit but ARE allowed. Here is an article from marie Clare magazine on a Gilgit-Chitral Female Search and Rescue Team:
Female Search-and-Rescue Team in Pakistan - Marie Claire

Search and Rescue team??? When did search and rescue teams start qualifying as Journalists?

I guess you have not read the original article carefully. I strongly suggest that you do that now.


From the main article:

"he entire western portion of Kashmir stretching from Gilgit in the north to Azad (Free) Kashmir in the south is closed to the world, in contrast to the media access that India permits in the eastern part, where it is combating a Pakistan-backed insurgency."

Did he say tourists? mountain climbers? or even search & rescue teams? Pls do read and understand.

 

[GUNNER]

Ok let's say hypothetically that it is a naive argument.


Journalists running in the guise of tourists is not being discussed here. I was just making a point with that example & you took it up as the core issue.

I have no ambiguity on the issue here my dear. Journos go where they want to and have to. As a journalist i know that. Now, the article is implying that something sisnister is on in GB, of which the world has no idea because no journos can go in there and hence no media coverage. He talks of conspiracies and plots and thousands of PLA troops which only he has been able to see. And that's clearly not the case. The issue ain't press freedom.

And, by the way, the original article doesn't say foreign press isn't allowed in GB. It just says the whole GB is closed to the world. Which is obviously not the case.

Oh, and I haven't been able to watch the video. Frankly, i don't care about what TIMES NOW airs. I have seen quite a lot of BS regarding Pakistan on this channel. And i know where it comes from.

As far as your doubt is concerned, I have accompanied foreign journalists inside Gilgit-Baltistan on several occasions. Is that clear enough for you? But ofcourse, if you want to tow the line of TIMES NOW.. you can carry on !

 

[GentlemanObserver]

Search and Rescue team??? When did search and rescue teams start qualifying as Journalists?

I guess you have not read the original article carefully. I strongly suggest that you do that now.


From the main article:

"he entire western portion of Kashmir stretching from Gilgit in the north to Azad (Free) Kashmir in the south is closed to the world, in contrast to the media access that India permits in the eastern part, where it is combating a Pakistan-backed insurgency."

Did he say tourists? mountain climbers? or even search & rescue teams? Pls do read and understand.

Search and Rescue team??? When did search and rescue teams start qualifying as Journalists?

I suggest you start practising what you preach..

Firslty Name of Magazine: Hairstyles, Women's Fashion, Beauty Products, and Relationship Advice - Marie Claire
Name of Journalist reporting: Jan Goodwin (That sound Pakistani to you)????

he entire western portion of Kashmir stretching from Gilgit in the north to Azad (Free) Kashmir in the south is closed to the world, in contrast to the media access that India permits in the eastern part, where it is combating a Pakistan-backed insurgency."

Please spare me. You have no idea what your babbling about,

Did he say tourists? mountain climbers? or even search & rescue teams? Pls do read and understand.

Again i would like to bring to your attention that GLIGIT and AJK is of interest ONLY to the Following: tourists, mountain climbers, or even search & rescue teams and NGO.


Find me 1 interesting article from a western media source about Gilgit?... Can you do that? I highly doubt it, because the area has ZERO interest in western eyes.

The only media obsessed with Gilgit (because of china) are the Indians. Next time (PUT YOUR BRAIN IN GEAR, BEFORE YOU MOUTH IS IN MOTION)!

 

[Nav]

Fwo and Pla Worked togther when silk highway was under construction, now In High speed Rail Project , again they Working Togther.. As Far As Azad Kashmir's Concern its open , as were Before through out its history. Even I Visited Rawlakot just Before Ramdan.

 

[GUNNER]

China calls *** 'northern Pakistan', J&K is 'India-controlled Kashmir'

Saibal Dasgupta

BEIJING: China on Thursday denied a report that it has deployed 11,000 soldiers in the Gilgit-Baltistan region of ***************** Kashmir. But the Chinese foreign ministry described the disputed area as "northern part of Pakistan". It refrained calling it *** while describing India's Jammu & Kashmir as "India controlled Kashmir".

"The story that China has deployed its military in northern part of Pakistan is totally groundless and out of ulterior purpose. Some people are fabricating reports to destroy relations between China, Pakistan and India. But their efforts will get nowhere," Jiang Yu, Chinese foreign ministry spokeswoman said on Thursday. She was replying to questions about a New York Times report saying that China has sent 11,000 soldiers to Gilgit-Baltistan region.

Jiang also made it clear Beijing will stick to its policy about stapled visas for Indians living in Jammu & Kashmir. "About our visa policy toward inhabitants in the Indian Controlled Kashmir region the policy is consistent and stayed unchanged," she said. She did not give a direct reply to a question about reports concerning denial of Chinese visa to India's Gen. B.S.Jaswal.

"After reading reports we have checked with competent authority. The relevant media report is not true," she said. "As a neighbour and friend of both countries, China believes that the (Kashmir) issue should be left to the two countries so that it could be properly handled through dialogue and consultation," the spokeswoman said.

 

[faisaljaffery]

I my self belong from kashmir and there is free and full access of media to Kashmir and Gilgit Baltistan areas. However, due to road blockages no body can travel to these areas specially in moon soon season. Its good to learn that China has intentions to invest in the road insfrastructure of Pakistan.

 

[GentlemanObserver]

I my self belong from kashmir and there is free and full access of media to Kashmir and Gilgit Baltistan areas. However, due to road blockages no body can travel to these areas specially in moon soon season. Its good to learn that China has intentions to invest in the road insfrastructure of Pakistan.

No point telling some people here. To them fact is overwritten by the fiction they spawn in their minds and consume in their daily reads.

 

[CardSharp]

No point telling some people here. To them fact is overwritten by the fiction they spawn in their minds and consume in their daily reads.

People don't understand the nature of the Chinese military. It is the PEOPLE's liberation army, it was conceived to serve the people. In fact before opening a large percentage of ALL construction done were by the PLA. The reason why China has traditionally had a huge army was not only because of population, it also to help in things like disaster relief, construction, fire-fighting, even serving as extras in movies and drumming at the Olympic opening.

PLA disaster relief.