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PLA Presence in Northern Areas ? ? ?

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China's Discreet Hold on Pakistan's Northern Borderlands

While the world focuses on the flood-ravaged Indus River valley, a quiet geopolitical crisis is unfolding in the Himalayan borderlands of northern Pakistan, where Islamabad is handing over de facto control of the strategic Gilgit-Baltistan region in the northwest corner of disputed Kashmir to China.

The entire western portion of Kashmir stretching from Gilgit in the north to Azad (Free) Kashmir in the south is closed to the world, in contrast to the media access that India permits in the eastern part, where it is combating a Pakistan-backed insurgency. But reports from a variety of foreign intelligence sources, Pakistani journalists and Pakistani human rights workers reveal two important new developments in Gilgit-Baltistan: a simmering rebellion against Pakistani rule and the influx of an estimated 7,000 to 11,000 soldiers of the People’s Liberation Army.

China wants a grip on the region to assure unfettered road and rail access to the Gulf through Pakistan. It takes 16 to 25 days for Chinese oil tankers to reach the Gulf. When high-speed rail and road links through Gilgit and Baltistan are completed, China will be able to transport cargo from Eastern China to the new Chinese-built Pakistani naval bases at Gwadar, Pasni and Ormara, just east of the Gulf, within 48 hours.

Many of the P.L.A. soldiers entering Gilgit-Baltistan are expected to work on the railroad. Some are extending the Karakoram Highway, built to link China’s Sinkiang Province with Pakistan. Others are working on dams, expressways and other projects.

Mystery surrounds the construction of 22 tunnels in secret locations where Pakistanis are barred. Tunnels would be necessary for a projected gas pipeline from Iran to China that would cross the Himalayas through Gilgit. But they could also be used for missile storage sites.

Until recently, the P.L.A. construction crews lived in temporary encampments and went home after completing their assignments. Now they are building big residential enclaves clearly designed for a long-term presence.

What is happening in the region matters to Washington for two reasons. Coupled with its support for the Taliban, Islamabad’s collusion in facilitating China’s access to the Gulf makes clear that Pakistan is not a U.S. “ally.” Equally important, the nascent revolt in the Gilgit-Baltistan region is a reminder that Kashmiri demands for autonomy on both sides of the cease-fire line would have to be addressed in a settlement.

Media attention has exposed the repression of the insurgency in the Indian-ruled Kashmir Valley. But if reporters could get into the Gilgit-Baltistan region and Azad Kashmir, they would find widespread, brutally-suppressed local movements for democratic rights and regional autonomy.

When the British partitioned South Asia in 1947, the maharajah who ruled Kashmir, including Gilgit and Baltistan, acceded to India. This set off intermittent conflict that ended with Indian control of the Kashmir Valley, the establishment of Pakistan-sponsored Free Kashmir in western Kashmir, and Pakistan’s occupation of Gilgit and Baltistan, where Sunni jihadi groups allied with the Pakistan Army have systematically terrorized the local Shiite Muslims.

Gilgit and Baltistan are in effect under military rule. Democratic activists there want a legislature and other institutions without restrictions like the ones imposed on Free Kashmir, where the elected legislature controls only 4 out of 56 subjects covered in the state constitution. The rest are under the jurisdiction of a “Kashmir Council” appointed by the president of Pakistan.

India gives more power to the state government in Srinagar; elections there are widely regarded as fair, and open discussion of demands for autonomy is permitted. But the Pakistan-abetted insurgency in the Kashmir Valley has added to tensions between Indian occupation forces and an assertive population seeking greater of local autonomy.

The United States is uniquely situated to play a moderating role in Kashmir, given its growing economic and military ties with India and Pakistan’s aid dependence on Washington. Such a role should be limited to quiet diplomacy. Washington should press New Delhi to resume autonomy negotiations with Kashmiri separatists. Success would put pressure on Islamabad for comparable concessions in Free Kashmir and Gilgit-Baltistan. In Pakistan, Washington should focus on getting Islamabad to stop aiding the insurgency in the Kashmir Valley and to give New Delhi a formal commitment that it will not annex Gilgit and Baltistan.

Precisely because the Gilgit-Baltistan region is so important to China, the United States, India and Pakistan should work together to make sure that it is not overwhelmed, like Tibet, by the Chinese behemoth.

Selig S. Harrison is director of the Asia Program at the Center for International Policy and a former South Asia bureau chief of The Washington Post.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/27/opinion/27iht-edharrison.html?_r=1
 
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Another stupid journalists who cant read maps. The northern areas of Pakistan have traditional ties to China dating thousands of years. Chinese are building infrastructure and rail road project to promote trade not occupation. Secondly Azad Kashmir is as open to media as the world "azad" itself other wise you wont be getting any fancy footage of earth quake or flood.

The author of this article express his typical shallow mentality to derail Pakistan as a worm being stepped over by Chinese. Well much to Indian dismay we arent playing master slave game with China. And Chinese is not being adopted as main stream language unlike the Indians with their obession of English and East Indian company.

Tip: scourge the internet for pictures from AK taken by international tourists and media photographers. In stark contrast it is the IOK which is closed to forigen media. Especially after recent riots.
 
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It seems that fate has given India permanent and unfettered access to our bigger neighbor's jugular vein. Not that we foresee ever having to pick up a blade, it helps to maintain the status quo and balance of power-the only guarantee for peace.:cheers:
 
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My reaction:

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

Useless even to point out the numerous idiotic statements & assumptions.

Just to make a point to let know how much the area is closed to outsiders:

"In recent years, the highway has become a destination for adventure tourism. It was ranked as the 3rd best Tourist Destination in Pakistan by The Guardian. The road has given mountaineers and cyclists easier access to the many high mountains, glaciers and lakes in the area. The highway provides access to Gilgit and Skardu from Islamabad by road. These are the two major hubs for mountaineering expeditions in the Gilgit-Baltistan region of Pakistan-administered Kashmir. "

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karakoram_Highway#cite_note-5

http://www.guardian.co.uk/travel/2006/oct/17/pakistan?page=all

More then enough to show the level of intellect and information this guy writing the article has.
 
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While China's attempts to build infrastructure in Pak's norther areas does make sense for them, I am not sure how much of 'control' this gives them over the land. Has Pakistan actually relinquished control over these areas to the PLA? I wouldnt be quick to make assumptions untill I read more about the issue.
 
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While China's attempts to build infrastructure in Pak's norther areas does make sense for them, I am not sure how much of 'control' this gives them over the land. Has Pakistan actually relinquished control over these areas to the PLA? I wouldnt be quick to make assumptions untill I read more about the issue.

There has been no control given to anyone from outside.

Chinese presence would be expected due to a number of things happening.

The Karakoram Highway expansion is on the cards, rail links are being thought about, lot of road damage has and had occurred due to the earth quake, land sliding and the damage to roads, dam building initiatives, recent flood damage, many things would be needing Chinese assistance, expertise wise as we have not much of an engineering base for such mega projects, plus may be human resources wise as things need to be done asap and we may not have the required human resource.
 
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My reaction:

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

Useless even to point out the numerous idiotic statements & assumptions.

Just to make a point to let know how much the area is closed to outsiders:

"In recent years, the highway has become a destination for adventure tourism. It was ranked as the 3rd best Tourist Destination in Pakistan by The Guardian. The road has given mountaineers and cyclists easier access to the many high mountains, glaciers and lakes in the area. The highway provides access to Gilgit and Skardu from Islamabad by road. These are the two major hubs for mountaineering expeditions in the Gilgit-Baltistan region of Pakistan-administered Kashmir. "

Karakoram Highway - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The top five tourist sites in Pakistan | Travel | guardian.co.uk

More then enough to show the level of intellect and information this guy writing the article has.

The Guardian article you refer to was published in 2006, while the this article in the New York Times appeared in August 2010. Surely much has have changed in these 4 years, especially in Pakistan with the rise of TPP etc. Surely an outdated article is no proof for current realities.

The article has appeared in the New York Times, which is a very credible news paper and is held in high esteem globally; surely they would have taken care to make sure that the author would have provided correct information. Papers like the NYC just don't go publishing hogwash, do they?
 
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The Guardian article you refer to was published in 2006, while the this article in the New York Times appeared in August 2010. Surely much has have changed in these 4 years, especially in Pakistan with the rise of TPP etc. Surely an outdated article is no proof for current realities.

The article has appeared in the New York Times, which is a very credible news paper and is held in high esteem globally; surely they would have taken care to make sure that the author would have provided correct information. Papers like the NYC just don't go publishing hogwash, do they?

Nothing has changed in last 4 years, the place is still open to tourists and tourism still goes on and people go there, from inside Pakistan as well as outside.

They do, this is not the first time. When it comes to Pakistan, they are never behind in publishing idiotic and unauthenticated news items.

This one involves China, so they will not be thinking twice of checking it up whether it is true or how much true, as Chinaphobia is to be spread.
 
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Keep the discussion as per topic, no need to bring in Kashmir or other nonsense.
 
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But are these areas not part of Kashmir?

I don't understand why is it so hard for you people to understand.

The thread was opened with an article, so why can't we post our posts in that regard and keep the discussion centering on the things mentioned in the article ?? Why bring in other nonsense which has nothing to do with the article ??

The article makes some assumptions and accusations, can't we discuss those things.

If you guys tried to derail the thread, don't think the thread will be closed, rather members who will try to derail it will be thrown out.

So keep the discussion as per the topic at hand, China and accusations on China & Pakistan.
 
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Nothing has changed in last 4 years, the place is still open to tourists and tourism still goes on and people go there, from inside Pakistan as well as outside.

Why don't you provide a current credible news link to substantiate your claims. Like the previous Guardian article, just don't post an outdated article again. I had nearly bought your argument till i checked the dates, then the deception became evident. otherwise its your word against that of a credible paper like the NYT. and no prizes for guessing whose word i am going to take!!


They do, this is not the first time. When it comes to Pakistan, they are never behind in publishing idiotic and unauthenticated news items.

This one involves China, so they will not be thinking twice of checking it up whether it is true or how much true, as Chinaphobia is to be spread.

That is simply an paranoid assumption. Is this paranoia limited to the just the NYT or it extends to The Guardian too, whose article you quoted with such glee in the first place.

Just a reminder The NYT along with The Guardian & Der Speigel collaborated to publish the Wikileaks documents which exposed the double game being played by the ISI in the war on terror.
 
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There has been no control given to anyone from outside.

Chinese presence would be expected due to a number of things happening.

The Karakoram Highway expansion is on the cards, rail links are being thought about, lot of road damage has and had occurred due to the earth quake, land sliding and the damage to roads, dam building initiatives, recent flood damage, many things would be needing Chinese assistance, expertise wise as we have not much of an engineering base for such mega projects, plus may be human resources wise as things need to be done asap and we may not have the required human resource.

That what I thought. I dont think PLA has any sort of control in these areas. In future, it would be interesting if Pakistan actually allows China to set up a military base or maintain a permanent military presence in the area.
 
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Why don't you provide a current credible news link to substantiate your claims. Like the previous Guardian article, just don't post an outdated article again. I had nearly bought your argument till i checked the dates, then the deception became evident. otherwise its your word against that of a credible paper like the NYT. and no prizes for guessing whose word i am going to take!!

Do one thing, buy a ticket and come to Pakistan, i will take you myself there and show you around. How about that.

Or else Google yourself and see how many tourist companies have stopped services in Northern Areas. Or better call them up and tell you are a foreigner and wants to go to Norther Areas or on a tracking expedition, see what they reply.

Here see, these mountaineers died climbing K-2 in last few months and in last one year and they would definitely not have come all alone to Pakistan, must have come with their teams.

Swedish mountain climber Frederik Ericsson Dies in K2

Bulgarian mountaineer dies on K2 - Bulgaria - The Sofia Echo

DAWN.COM | Pakistan | Bulgarian mountaineer dies on Pakistan?s K2

DAWN.COM | National | Italian mountaineer dies during K2 descent


That is simply an paranoid assumption. Is this paranoia limited to the just the NYT or it extends to The Guardian too, whose article you quoted with such glee in the first place.

Just a reminder The NYT along with The Guardian & Der Speigel collaborated to publish the Wikileaks documents which exposed the double game being played by the ISI in the war on terror.

Well who said anything about the authenticity of the wikileaks documents, the US govt acknowledged the documents and these newspapers were just reproducers, it wasn't their own product.

And its another topic discussed in detail, but who isn't playing a double game in Afghanistan ?? The US, Indians, Afghans themselves. Who isn't ??

So stick to the topic.
 
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