PLA budget to increase to US$130.6 billion

[Brainsucker]

Just look USSR, their military budget were too much for their economy to support. And what happen then? And then, what happen to those exceed tanks and military vehicles? Were they useful? Russian had to sold them to help their economy health after the crumble of USSR. The others were left in the junk yard like a junk.

Now, before you think that China needs to raise their budget to comparable with USA, think about this first. Why China needs to produce 10.000 tanks, hundred of Destroyers, etc when they are not at war to anybody right now. Fighting in South China Sea doesn't need 100 052D / 052A, while fighting against USA, you need better tanks and destroyers. So building too much of China current level of technology military vehicles is not wise decision, unless the military conflict against Japan is imminence and unavoidable, Thus China decides to shift their peace economy to war economy. At that time, it still not to late to mass produce those destroyers and planes to the number of ten thousands or more. China Industrial Capability is ready. They just need to convert those civilians factories into war factories and then you'll have 10.000 J-10 in near future.

With China rapid military tech growth and the birth of newer class of Frigates and Destroyers, they don't need to build 100 054A. Just look at China AAW ship alone. They have 3 model AAW capable ships. 054A, 052C, and then 052D. I don't know if they will develop this type of ships more in the future. But looking at their habit, I'm sure that newer and more capable AAW type ship will born in near future. So if these ships are just stop gap for the future and better ship, then why would they mass produce them to the number like Arleigh Burke? And if they don't intend to mass build them, then why do they need more budget? Unless you want to exceed budget to be used by corrupt generals to get new mistress or building their own palace.

Plus, what wrong with 130 billion dollars? If they can pay 4 aircraft carriers etc with only 130 billion dollars, then why need 500 just like USA? Or do you want to markup the price so it will cost 500 billion instead of 130?

 

[applesauce]

We can never rest until those mass murdering Yankee terrorists are kicked out of Asia forever and the spine of the Yankee empire is dismantled into the scrapheap of history.

increasing military spending, isnt going to make the americans leave asia. heck it can very possibly have the opposite effect, they will most likely increase military presence in japan, korea, Philippines, etc. moreover, china can still not match american technology yet, so china would only be bring more pressure on itself and taking investment money away from growing the economy and helping the millions of poor people in china. I prefer that there is no more poverty in china over complete dominance of Asia.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

increasing military spending, isnt going to make the americans leave asia. heck it can very possibly have the opposite effect, they will most likely increase military presence in japan, korea, Philippines, etc. moreover, china can still not match american technology yet, so china would only be bring more pressure on itself and taking investment money away from growing the economy and helping the millions of poor people in china. I prefer that there is no more poverty in china over complete dominance of Asia.

In the end, it is best to strike a "balance" if possible.

To reduce the influence of the American Empire in Asia, we have to have a lot of patience.

 

[applesauce]

In times of peace prepare for war.

what makes you think china isnt prepared?, right now, no country or group of countries can hope to occupied china, it wasn't possible when japan tried it at china's weakest, it certainly isnt possible now that china is the second strongest economy in the world(and a thermo-nuclear power) R and D is going more or less as fast as it can, more money isnt necessarily going to help, we dont need to waste hard earned wealth, certainly not when there is so much more to be done, in infrastructure, and general nation building. spending money on lower tech goods now isnt going to help either, not when china is still in catch up mode. again, why buy 150 Type-052C now when there is unlikely to be war in the next 15 years? that same money could be used to buy 100 Type-055 in 15 years or used to invest in the economy.

further more, a major increase spending in china will have effects on other countries, japan will certainly increase spending, so will the US and all others in the region, a arms race is not in china's interest, technology advantage still lies with the Americans, and they have a larger GDP as well. china cannot simply outspend a combined US/JAPAN, not for a long time yet. so a major increase will not buy security, it will buy china more problems, in the form of a equally major increase in japan. you might think the US has spending problems, but remember the US spending is still many times what china spends even if china doubled its spending tomorrow. all it will mean is that the US will move most of its units from europe to asia and park 6 carriers in asia. again this is not in china's interest.

In the end, it is best to strike a "balance" if possible.

To reduce the influence of the American Empire in Asia, we have to have a lot of patience.

indeed a balance is need, and i think the amount right now is good, and patience is good too, time is on china's side atm

 

[Hypersonicmissiles]

increasing military spending, isnt going to make the americans leave asia. heck it can very possibly have the opposite effect, they will most likely increase military presence in japan, korea, Philippines, etc. moreover, china can still not match american technology yet, so china would only be bring more pressure on itself and taking investment money away from growing the economy and helping the millions of poor people in china. I prefer that there is no more poverty in china over complete dominance of Asia.

I prefer complete dominance over Asia than taking care of a bunch of useless poor people. China is repeating the same mistakes as the Qing dynasty by not prioritising the military and hoping the western hyenas will be nice. There will come a day the CPC regrets not building up the military quicker when the Yankees decide to collapse the Chinese economy by cutting off all energy supplies into China. When the PLA is powerless you will realise that this is just Opium war 2.0

That day is nearing, the Yankees see the weakness in the PLA and know they can push as much as they can because we are too weak militarily.

I don't care if the US moves its ENTIRE military to Asia, it makes no difference to the fact of China's military budget.

Right now, the Japanese and Indian navies are vastly superior to the PLA Navy. India has 3 aircraft carriers while we have a junk casino pretending to be an aircraft carrier. Japan has helicopter carriers and the best anti-submarine force apart from the US.

If Japan decides it wants to collapse the Chinese economy by cutting off the energy supply, it can do it because the PLA cannot take on the Japanese Navy. Without a powerful military, we are extremely vulnerable and open to military blackmail. This is why we no longer have an independent foreign policy. We just kowtow to Yankee demands.

 

[bolo]

what makes you think china isnt prepared?, right now, no country or group of countries can hope to occupied china, it wasn't possible when japan tried it at china's weakest, it certainly isnt possible now that china is the second strongest economy in the world(and a thermo-nuclear power) R and D is going more or less as fast as it can, more money isnt necessarily going to help, we dont need to waste hard earned wealth, certainly not when there is so much more to be done, in infrastructure, and general nation building. spending money on lower tech goods now isnt going to help either, not when china is still in catch up mode. again, why buy 150 Type-052C now when there is unlikely to be war in the next 15 years? that same money could be used to buy 100 Type-055 in 15 years or used to invest in the economy.

further more, a major increase spending in china will have effects on other countries, japan will certainly increase spending, so will the US and all others in the region, a arms race is not in china's interest, technology advantage still lies with the Americans, and they have a larger GDP as well. china cannot simply outspend a combined US/JAPAN, not for a long time yet. so a major increase will not buy security, it will buy china more problems, in the form of a equally major increase in japan. you might think the US has spending problems, but remember the US spending is still many times what china spends even if china doubled its spending tomorrow. all it will mean is that the US will move most of its units from europe to asia and park 6 carriers in asia. again this is not in china's interest.



indeed a balance is need, and i think the amount right now is good, and patience is good too, time is on china's side atm

1. What make you think US, Japan are not spending on military because China is not increasing the budget?
2. If japan want an arms race, fine. You can't worry about other countries concern.
3. Yes China has strong ground military but not too strong navy or air force. They are not even able to secure SCS, take back daiyou. Even backwards *** indians joke about China air force.
4. Technology breakthrough will happen when you spend more on military research and fine tuning weapons. By using current strategy, china will always play catch up but never catching up.
5. The power of ones economy depends on military might. you make economic rules when you are the strongest.

Too many CPC members think like you which will not turn out well in the future.

I prefer complete dominance over Asia than taking care of a bunch of useless poor people. China is repeating the same mistakes as the Qing dynasty by not prioritising the military and hoping the western hyenas will be nice. There will come a day the CPC regrets not building up the military quicker when the Yankees decide to collapse the Chinese economy by cutting off all energy supplies into China. When the PLA is powerless you will realise that this is just Opium war 2.0

That day is nearing, the Yankees see the weakness in the PLA and know they can push as much as they can because we are too weak militarily.

I don't care if the US moves its ENTIRE military to Asia, it makes no difference to the fact of China's military budget.

Right now, the Japanese and Indian navies are vastly superior to the PLA Navy. India has 3 aircraft carriers while we have a junk casino pretending to be an aircraft carrier. Japan has helicopter carriers and the best anti-submarine force apart from the US.

If Japan decides it wants to collapse the Chinese economy by cutting off the energy supply, it can do it because the PLA cannot take on the Japanese Navy. Without a powerful military, we are extremely vulnerable and open to military blackmail. This is why we no longer have an independent foreign policy. We just kowtow to Yankee demands.

Good points but i wouldn't say indian navy is more powerful. Indian just talk too much but China can't shut their big mouth for now.

 

[Akasa]

1. What make you think US, Japan are not spending on military because China is not increasing the budget?

Yes, countries do spend regardless of the action of its neighbors, but a dramatic spur of budget hikes would severely unnerve the Japanese and create regional tension that neither country want.

2. If japan want an arms race, fine. You can't worry about other countries concern.

This argument doesn't help your cause here.

3. Yes China has strong ground military but not too strong navy or air force.

Define a "not too strong" navy or air force. If you go by that standards then the only countries with "strong air forces" would be the US and Russia.

They are not even able to secure SCS, take back daiyou.

Seriously, you are judging military capabilities by China's political cards and the commonplace restraint which is shown by any other civilized country in the modern political realm?

Even backwards *** indians joke about China air force.

Basing the judgment of a military on the opinions of other countries' civilians who might not know what they are talking about? You've definitely earned your Ph. D. in Journalism.

4. Technology breakthrough will happen when you spend more on military research and fine tuning weapons. By using current strategy, china will always play catch up but never catching up.

And I take it that you have irrefutable evidence that China isn't spending money on military research?

5. The power of ones economy depends on military might. you make economic rules when you are the strongest.

Uh, no. The power of one's military depends on her economic might. Without the economy running, you no longer have research, you no longer have technological supply chains that support the military industries, you no longer have government willingness to spend on the military, and you no longer have the freedom to maneuver within your military budget.

Too many CPC members think like you which will not turn out well in the future.

The irony is rich in that phrase.

 

[bolo]

Yes, countries do spend regardless of the action of its neighbors, but a dramatic spur of budget hikes would severely unnerve the Japanese and create regional tension that neither country want.



This argument doesn't help your cause here.



Define a "not too strong" navy or air force. If you go by that standards then the only countries with "strong air forces" would be the US and Russia.
Lack of power projection outside of scs.



Seriously, you are judging military capabilities by China's political cards and the commonplace restraint which is shown by any other civilized country in the modern political realm?
Do you want to drive american influence out of asia? Do you want to take back what used to belong to you? Do you want taiwan China reunification?




Basing the judgment of a military on the opinions of other countries' civilians who might not know what they are talking about? You've definitely earned your Ph. D. in Journalism.
My point stands. No one dares challenge US or Russia navy, even after dismantling former USSR. Even shit holes like Philippines and Vietnam challenge china navy once in a while.



And I take it that you have irrefutable evidence that China isn't spending money on military research?
A bigger budget you will have more breakthrough. Or current way, always play catch up.


Uh, no. The power of one's military depends on her economic might. Without the economy running, you no longer have research, you no longer have technological supply chains that support the military industries, you no longer have government willingness to spend on the military, and you no longer have the freedom to maneuver within your military budget.
Again, economy is just man made. Strongest military dictates how and who gets resources.



The irony is rich in that phrase. Again, stealing from state money will make some rich, country poor. Qing dynasty 2 in the making.

Expand view for rebuttal

 

[Brainsucker]

5. The power of ones economy depends on military might. you make economic rules when you are the strongest.
.

Which country do you want to live? Today China or today North Korea? North Korea focus on their military more than economy, but they can't go any where because of their lack of money.

 

[applesauce]

I prefer complete dominance over Asia than taking care of a bunch of useless poor people. China is repeating the same mistakes as the Qing dynasty by not prioritising the military and hoping the western hyenas will be nice. There will come a day the CPC regrets not building up the military quicker when the Yankees decide to collapse the Chinese economy by cutting off all energy supplies into China. When the PLA is powerless you will realise that this is just Opium war 2.0

so you think your(i assume you are chinese as per your flag) fellow chinese citizens are useless because they are poor? did you know nearly all Chinese persons in china was once poor, do you think your ancestors who were poor at one point are very useless then? what makes you so superior to poor people? they are people too and our fellow country men, just because some are down on their luck and others haven't been given the opportunity yet, doesn't mean they are useless, if they are upstanding in character i would be proud to call them my brothers and sisters. you must be one of those snobby rich kids that flaunt their(or rather their daddy's) wealth as though they are somehow better than the rest of us.

furthermore china is already investing large amounts in the military. the problem with the Qing dynasty wasnt that they didnt have a decent military per-say. rather they were extremely corrupt(from the top down). more money isnt going to help corruption. did you know that the Qing Beiyang fleet was considered the strongest in asia and operated some of the most modern ships of the time? on paper it was extremely strong yet it got trashed by the smaller japanese fleets because of extreme corruption, so bad was the problem that training basically didnt happen and in some cases the shells used on the ships were filled with sand rather than gun powder and the money pocketed by corrupt officials

That day is nearing, the Yankees see the weakness in the PLA and know they can push as much as they can because we are too weak militarily.

nearing but not here yet. why are you in a rush?

I don't care if the US moves its ENTIRE military to Asia, it makes no difference to the fact of China's military budget.

you dont care because you know next to nothing about the real world it appears. yet the real world is exactly where we all live. fortunately the CPC, PLA etc do care and know to keep a balance.

Right now, the Japanese and Indian navies are vastly superior to the PLA Navy. India has 3 aircraft carriers while we have a junk casino pretending to be an aircraft carrier. Japan has helicopter carriers and the best anti-submarine force apart from the US.

india has 2 carriers, both of which is alot smaller than china's, furthermore the indian navy is hardly a threat, they have no power projection capability that can survive in the near seas. and the japanese are good at ASW, which is exactly why we shouldnt spend tons more money buying current available subs which are behind what the americans and the japanese operate. in addition, a war with india, especially a naval one is extremely unlikely.

If Japan decides it wants to collapse the Chinese economy by cutting off the energy supply, it can do it because the PLA cannot take on the Japanese Navy. Without a powerful military, we are extremely vulnerable and open to military blackmail. This is why we no longer have an independent foreign policy. We just kowtow to Yankee demands.

maybe you kowtow to yakee demands, the rest of us dont. the PLAN with PLAAF support is completely able to stand against the japanese on equal footing right now over the disputed islands. and the more time goes by the stronger the PLA gets vis-a-vis the Japanese navy. and japan can hardly cut off chinese economy. the only one capable of attempting that is the USA. and matching the USA is a long term goal. not something achievable by increasing spending massively now especially consider the chinese GDP is still smaller.

1. What make you think US, Japan are not spending on military because China is not increasing the budget?
2. If japan want an arms race, fine. You can't worry about other countries concern.
3. Yes China has strong ground military but not too strong navy or air force. They are not even able to secure SCS, take back daiyou. Even backwards *** indians joke about China air force.
4. Technology breakthrough will happen when you spend more on military research and fine tuning weapons. By using current strategy, china will always play catch up but never catching up.
5. The power of ones economy depends on military might. you make economic rules when you are the strongest.

1. japan spend only a bit over 1% of GDP on the military, and the US military spending actually went down this year, so clearly they are not hell bend on getting into an arms race, but i guarantee they will increase a lot more if china suddenly increased its budget by over 200%

2. in this case it wouldnt be japan that "wants" an arms race, the arms race would be sparked by china increasing its military spending by over 200%, which is pointless as that money can go towards much more useful areas like national development that ensures that china in 10 years is many time stronger than japan

3. china can operate death stars and the indian will still laugh, why do you can so much about what they think?

4. more money will only help to a certain degree, all project are going more or less smoothly atm, no need to spend a ton more money that could be better spent elsewhere

5. i can say the opposite. the US was the strongest economy long before its was the strongest military power.

Too many CPC members think like you which will not turn out well in the future.

too many warmongers like you will only bring ruin to the nation. especially considering that china is still raising and the game is becoming more favorable to us each day, the longer we wait the more benefits we have. yet you want to ruin that by forcing a showdown now rather than 20 or 30 years from now when china would have absolute advantage.

Good points but i wouldn't say indian navy is more powerful. Indian just talk too much but China can't shut their big mouth for now.

india navy is far weaker. that is fact

 

[bolo]

Which country do you want to live? Today China or today North Korea? North Korea focus on their military more than economy, but they can't go any where because of their lack of money.

NK is not a dominant military power. NK is a tiny country with lack of natural resources, China has resources. China has the population and know-how to make advance weapons, NK does not.

 

[bolo]

so you think your(i assume you are chinese as per your flag) fellow chinese citizens are useless because they are poor? did you know nearly all Chinese persons in china was once poor, do you think your ancestors who were poor at one point are very useless then? what makes you so superior to poor people? they are people too and our fellow country men, just because some are down on their luck and others haven't been given the opportunity yet, doesn't mean they are useless, if they are upstanding in character i would be proud to call them my brothers and sisters. you must be one of those snobby rich kids that flaunt their(or rather their daddy's) wealth as though they are somehow better than the rest of us.

furthermore china is already investing large amounts in the military. the problem with the Qing dynasty wasnt that they didnt have a decent military per-say. rather they were extremely corrupt(from the top down). more money isnt going to help corruption. did you know that the Qing Beiyang fleet was considered the strongest in asia and operated some of the most modern ships of the time? on paper it was extremely strong yet it got trashed by the smaller japanese fleets because of extreme corruption, so bad was the problem that training basically didnt happen and in some cases the shells used on the ships were filled with sand rather than gun powder and the money pocketed by corrupt officials



nearing but not here yet. why are you in a rush?



you dont care because you know next to nothing about the real world it appears. yet the real world is exactly where we all live. fortunately the CPC, PLA etc do care and know to keep a balance.



india has 2 carriers, both of which is alot smaller than china's, furthermore the indian navy is hardly a threat, they have no power projection capability that can survive in the near seas. and the japanese are good at ASW, which is exactly why we shouldnt spend tons more money buying current available subs which are behind what the americans and the japanese operate. in addition, a war with india, especially a naval one is extremely unlikely.



maybe you kowtow to yakee demands, the rest of us dont. the PLAN with PLAAF support is completely able to stand against the japanese on equal footing right now over the disputed islands. and the more time goes by the stronger the PLA gets vis-a-vis the Japanese navy. and japan can hardly cut off chinese economy. the only one capable of attempting that is the USA. and matching the USA is a long term goal. not something achievable by increasing spending massively now especially consider the chinese GDP is still smaller.



1. japan spend only a bit over 1% of GDP on the military, and the US military spending actually went down this year, so clearly they are not hell bend on getting into an arms race, but i guarantee they will increase a lot more if china suddenly increased its budget by over 200%

2. in this case it wouldnt be japan that "wants" an arms race, the arms race would be sparked by china increasing its military spending by over 200%, which is pointless as that money can go towards much more useful areas like national development that ensures that china in 10 years is many time stronger than japan

3. china can operate death stars and the indian will still laugh, why do you can so much about what they think?

4. more money will only help to a certain degree, all project are going more or less smoothly atm, no need to spend a ton more money that could be better spent elsewhere

5. i can say the opposite. the US was the strongest economy long before its was the strongest military power.



too many warmongers like you will only bring ruin to the nation. especially considering that china is still raising and the game is becoming more favorable to us each day, the longer we wait the more benefits we have. yet you want to ruin that by forcing a showdown now rather than 20 or 30 years from now when china would have absolute advantage.




india navy is far weaker. that is fact

1. Japan is under the US protectorate, so they can spend less. Japan is also limited to what they can spend based on their surrender treaty. They are trying to change that don't you worry.
2. Ultimately the strength of one's country depends on her military. Read Chinese history. All dynasties fell because other fractions were strong enough to overthrow each dynastic emperors.
3. Pointless. In general military tech should be a secret depending on your agenda. If China does not want US interference, it must let the world know that they have more than enough nukes to annihilate the US, but they keep this a secret and the US believe they do not possess enough nukes to destroy her. that is why US will not back down in Pacific. India is not even scared of china nukes, let alone US.
4. Money, it's just a value placed on goods and services by man.
5. China is 3rd in military might, GDP per capita is low at $6000.

 

[Akasa]

I prefer complete dominance over Asia than taking care of a bunch of useless poor people. China is repeating the same mistakes as the Qing dynasty by not prioritising the military and hoping the western hyenas will be nice. There will come a day the CPC regrets not building up the military quicker when the Yankees decide to collapse the Chinese economy by cutting off all energy supplies into China. When the PLA is powerless you will realise that this is just Opium war 2.0

That day is nearing, the Yankees see the weakness in the PLA and know they can push as much as they can because we are too weak militarily.

I don't care if the US moves its ENTIRE military to Asia, it makes no difference to the fact of China's military budget.

Right now, the Japanese and Indian navies are vastly superior to the PLA Navy. India has 3 aircraft carriers while we have a junk casino pretending to be an aircraft carrier. Japan has helicopter carriers and the best anti-submarine force apart from the US.

If Japan decides it wants to collapse the Chinese economy by cutting off the energy supply, it can do it because the PLA cannot take on the Japanese Navy. Without a powerful military, we are extremely vulnerable and open to military blackmail. This is why we no longer have an independent foreign policy. We just kowtow to Yankee demands.

The view that the PLA somehow can't take on the American-supported JMSDF is extremely narrow-minded. The only advantage the JMSDF has is the quantity of their modern destroyers, which is not multirole unlike the newest Chinese vessels, not to mention that the numerical advantage is small and has been diminishing given the PLAN's pace of acquisition.

Please explain how India's Navy, which is smaller, considerably less sophisticated, and relies on foreign technological supply chains, can be remotely comparable to, let alone superior than, the PLAN.

They have one carrier which is significantly smaller than the Liaoning, and aircraft carriers are not the only or even a major factor when it comes to comparing navies. Please indulge in some common sense before posting.

 

[Brainsucker]

NK is not a dominant military power. NK is a tiny country with lack of natural resources, China has resources. China has the population and know-how to make advance weapons, NK does not.

Wrong. NK is a failed country because they government doesn't care about their economy at all. China is a successful country because they fought hard to increase their economy capability to today level. There was no difference between China and NK before 1980. No one can deny that China military prowess today can only be achieve because of their economy. Without that, you will still be part of their human wave soldiers with poor AK-47 who fight without the support of high tech war machines; if they ever go war against another country again.

 

[applesauce]

1. Japan is under the US protectorate, so they can spend less. Japan is also limited to what they can spend based on their surrender treaty. They are trying to change that don't you worry.

so your are saying you want to help the japanese militarize?

2. Ultimately the strength of one's country depends on her military. Read Chinese history. All dynasties fell because other fractions were strong enough to overthrow each dynastic emperors.

All Chinese dynasties fell because of failure from within allowing exterior powers to take advantage

3. Pointless. In general military tech should be a secret depending on your agenda. If China does not want US interference, it must let the world know that they have more than enough nukes to annihilate the US, but they keep this a secret and the US believe they do not possess enough nukes to destroy her. that is why US will not back down in Pacific. India is not even scared of china nukes, let alone US.

i see you care alot about what india thinks, which is odd, which do you crave their approval so much?
and china has more than enough nukes, its the delivery systems that are to be worked on. and they are being worked on.

4. Money, it's just a value placed on goods and services by man.

correct, but thats what makes the world run. no one is gonna work for free.

5. China is 3rd in military might, GDP per capita is low at $6000.

hence the need to work on the economy is more urgent than the military. and current spending clearly reflects that