Pindi Metro Bus concerns

[Muhammad Omar]

It will help, no doubt, and i am not questioning that if there should be a transit system in the twin cities or not. I am suggesting there could have been alternatives, like monorail/metrorail/trams etc. Think about it, Karachi, the biggest city in Pakistan still doesn't have a mass transit system.

Karachi doesn't have it it cause of PPP Gov there and MQM but yeah karachi need Monorail circular rail and metro the most but if you put this in another way like lahore after 10 year the population will increase as we all know and most of the route in Lahore Metro and Pindi Metro is elevated the Gov at that time just need to lay the light train tracks and u can use these buses on road maybe or in other cities monorails are costly i guess and they need electricity so now it's not a good choice but in future we can see monorails or metro rails running on these Tracks Insha Allah

 

[B+ Dracula]

Metro bus is not really needed for Islamabad, as the roads are pretty damn good. For the common man, they can create the tram system. It would actually blend better with the serene Islamabad. Keep the metrobus for Rawalpindi.

When you get Enter in Rawalpindi from Islmabad ..you feel HELL OF DIFFERENCE
Congested Murree Road will turn your Smooth sailing CAR into Drifting Bag full of Stones....esp in SUMMER avoid Pindi
FIRST : I Guess(maybe wrong) that project will help us to some extent but its not a Permanent solution,
SECOND: Roads are Concrete form of travelling, widening of Roads is one time investment ONCE FOR ALL
Because ! Congestion is caused by Narrow Roads ~ and that will haunt ISB/RWP millions of population

 

[Muhammad Omar]

Pathetic attempt to cover up the incompetency of KPK's government.

Unko center pai tankeed karnay sai fursat milay tou apnay soobay pai tawaja dein na.

yeh baat bhi thek hai wo center pe tanqeed krte hain or 4 halke unko chahye jb k unkay pass forum hai assembly la wahan pe jo krna krien i saw on Duniya NEWS a many guys in the recent rally of PTI are fighting with each other i dnt the reason but there weree many and many were criticizing Imran khan 1 guy there said jesa k Imran khan kehta hai k mujhy Sharam aati hai is Gov se or rigging se wese hi hum kehte hain k humein Imran khan se sharam aati hai ab

 

[Raja.Pakistani]

Its great project for residents of Rawalpindi/Islamabad who use public transport on daily basis for work or study purpose. I used to travel Islamabad from Rawalpindi and i know how useful it will be for local people who suffer because of poor transport infrastructure but some people will never stop moaning even if something good come for people and they did same during motorway project because their opposition to the the Pindi-Islamabad metro or any such project is purely based on political or hatred for certain political parties

Because ! Congestion is caused by Narrow Roads ~ and that will haunt ISB/RWP millions of population

Murree road cannot be extend any further as it has been extended many times before and you cannot wide it any further

 

[Donatello]

When you get Enter in Rawalpindi from Islmabad ..you feel HELL OF DIFFERENCE
Congested Murree Road will turn your Smooth sailing CAR into Drifting Bag full of Stones....esp in SUMMER avoid Pindi
FIRST : I Guess(maybe wrong) that project will help us to some extent but its not a Permanent solution,
SECOND: Roads are Concrete form of travelling, widening of Roads is one time investment ONCE FOR ALL
Because ! Congestion is caused by Narrow Roads ~ and that will haunt ISB/RWP millions of population

Widening the roads to overcome the crowding is like treating the symptoms and not the disease. You widen the roads, they will get crowded again as more people buy cars and drive. What i said in my post was that Rawalpindi definitely needs a metro bus solution, but Islamabad can do with some other system. The only advantage of having a metrobus in both cities is that people won't have to change buses. They can go straight from Rawalpindi to anywhere in Islamabad. Citizens of Islamabad are not happy since Islamabad is known as a green city and not a concrete jungle. So the planners should have opted for a lighter mode of rapid transit system to keep with the city's design. Chopping down trees, taking over green belts is not a solution. You can't solve one problem at the expense of another.

 

[Shabaz Sharif]

Widening the roads to overcome the crowding is like treating the symptoms and not the disease. You widen the roads, they will get crowded again as more people buy cars and drive. What i said in my post was that Rawalpindi definitely needs a metro bus solution, but Islamabad can do with some other system. The only advantage of having a metrobus in both cities is that people won't have to change buses. They can go straight from Rawalpindi to anywhere in Islamabad. Citizens of Islamabad are not happy since Islamabad is known as a green city and not a concrete jungle. So the planners should have opted for a lighter mode of rapid transit system to keep with the city's design. Chopping down trees, taking over green belts is not a solution. You can't solve one problem at the expense of another.

Metro bus is for middle class people working in Islamabad while living in Rawalpindi. Metro bus for one city alone isnt worth it.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Good initiative , hope it completes with quality and long term in prespective

 

[B+ Dracula]

Widening the roads to overcome the crowding is like treating the symptoms and not the disease. You widen the roads, they will get crowded again as more people buy cars and drive.

I agree with you....But let Us find GREAT SIN...ie. ORIGINAL SIN
WE NEED TO BUILD SMALL SUPPORTING CITIES NEARBY BIG ONES INSTEAD OF EXPANDING ONE

 

[Muhammad Omar]

Claim: ADB proposed cost was Rs 4 Billion.
It was actually $ 79 million i.e. ~ Rs 8 Billion, not counting for inflation. Their report said "Although yet to be verified through further feasibility assessment, indicative capital costs for the BRT system are estimated at US$ 79 million". Hence, it even wasn't a realistic cost.

As explained later, the routes suggested by ADB were different and the costs therefore are not comparable. Nonetheless, the route of the under-construction BRT includes an elevated section in Rawalpindi, the cost of which is Rs 13.7 Billion, an Islamabad section of Faizabad to Peshawar Mor of Rs 3.35 Billion, an underpass from D-Chowk to Pakistan Secretariat which adds more cost and a nearly Rs 5 Billion worth Peshawar Mor interchange.

The planners cost breakdown, available in detail here, actually shows unbelievably low estimates, with stations actually being the costliest part of the project, and the entire running way cost at just $18 million.

The under-construction project has kept in mind the possibility of conversion to a LRT later-on, which has required more than paper thin roads, and the depth of the running way adds to the construction cost too. Critics would like the project not to be far sighted, apparently.

Moreover, the ADB planned BRT system had a planned initial ridership of "42,000 passengers per day" and the under-construction one is planned for 150,000 passenger per day, a factor of 3.57 i.e. nearly four times higher.
Claim: ADB's proposed BRT actually included Rawalpindi

As can be seen in this map, it did not include Rawalpindi at the start of the transit system, only planned extension.

Differences between under-construction Islamabad-Rawalpindi Bus Rapid Transit and ADB proposal

The ADB study planned for a BRT system for Islamabad only, with planned extension to Rawalpindi later on. It suggested a 26.6km long, five route system, with large parts shared. Here is a map of the planned routes

Claim: ADB's proposed BRT actually included a dedicated busway

As can be seen in this figure from the report, it proposed a center alignment with median platforms.

To prevent removal of one lane for automobile traffic from each side, a dedicated busway is under-construction. Hence, cars will retain the road widths they have.

The report also says, "High floor/level boarding buses are also selected for the system, due to their lower cost and the fact that their floor height matches the height of the planned median station platforms. If low floor buses can be obtained for a minimal premium, then a low floor station platform is also possible."

The under-construction BRT system, just like the Lahore BRT, will use low-floor buses, a cost difference. The project planners estimated a total of 48 buses to be purchased for a mere $6.4 million, a cost per bus of $133,000. The London New Routemaster costs around $550,000. Multi door boarding gates used for BRT are expensive and worth it.

Claim: 9999999 acres of forest has been cut down

Islamabad's master plan had reserved right of way areas and they are being utilized for this project. Any trees planted on the area were of course temporary. Nonetheless, as can been seen through picture evidence in this forum, trees were dug out and replanted (viability being a separate issue). Some trees of course had to be cut-down. Out of the "4000 precious trees", 3,500 were under 4-inches. The environmental benefits of an efficient transit system surely outweigh the sad spectacle of a few hundred trees cut down. 'Green belts' on the other hand are nothing more than good grass growing on land that was reserved for this kind of use. Nevertheless. when the 7th, 9th avenues, Zero point interchange and Expressway were widened, a large numbers of tree huggers were not seen complaining.

Argument: Priorities/Too Expensive/No Use/Schools first

Mobility is a fundamental right. Working class and poor people do not have cars to take them everywhere. They suffer in broken down wagons and females suffer harassment. Working class people, unlike white collar people in cars, have to choose their work and jobs, based on their location too. They cannot move homes quickly, living out of him ancestral homes a lot of times, or the limited working class neighborhood rentals. Their ability pursue economic opportunities: jobs in industrial areas, in government services and such, is limited by their mobility. Two hours one way in a wagon destroys life, economically and home life too.

Islamabad's working class lives at the edges. The very poor live in slums and katchi abadis, which are being bulldozed right now by the CDA as the rich cheer on. The lower middle and working class lives at the outskirts, and a large population of Islamabad's workforce lives in Rawalpindi. Their ability to reach their work at the Pak Secretariat, in Blue Area etc, will improve lives dramatically.

Efficient public transit creates economic opportunities. Economic corridors open up around transit lines. It has social benefits in the form of democratization of public space: where the poor and the working class and the well-off travel the same way. It is efficient and is good for a fuel import dependent nation and good for the environment.

If public transit spending is not to be undertaken until every person has a PhD, a personal doctor, clean water in their taps and steak on their table, then nothing will happen. Investment and development happen in an integrated, side by side fashion. You have to invest in schools and hospitals - human resources for them being as important as the capital investment, throwing money at education does nothing - and infrastructure and power too.

I think this should address many erroneous beliefs and criticisms. Unfortunately, most criticisms are rooted in political bias, have an inherent anti-poor bias and lack basic logic. One critic even questioned the need for an integrated Rawalpindi-Islamabad transit system, suggesting that the number of people who travel daily between the cities is very little.

 

[ryzvonusef]

Muhammad Omar, haven't I seen your post somewhere else also? ;p

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On the Environmental front, let me say this, where as the 4000 trees will be replanted, why isn't any one realising the massive environmental benefit from REDUCED emissions, since people will finally be able to leave their car/bike at home?

WHO recently a study on PM 10 and PM 2.5 emissions (fine particulate matter of size ~ 10 - 2.5 micrometers)

vox com / 2014 / 5 / 12 / 5700532 / chinas - air - pollution - may - be - bad - but - indias - is - much - worse

Rawalpindi is in TOP TEN most polluted air cities! In the world

These emission are caused by fuel emissions. Rawalpindi has hodgepodge of transit systems, from private cars/bikes, to wagons, suzukis, chingchis, taxis and rickshaws.

Currently, it is CHEAPER and QUICKER to go on bike from Pindi to Isloo and back than it is with wagon.

Buses will be comfier, but they won't change cost or time factor.

But Metro Bus, with reserved track increasing speed, and increased capacity (bigger size articulated buses) will reduce costs.

This will finally allow people to leave their private transport at home, and choose public transit, reducing emissions.

But no one cares about Rawalpindi's environment!

 

[Muhammad Omar]

Muhammad Omar, haven't I seen your post somewhere else also? ;p

----

On the Environmental front, let me say this, where as the 4000 trees will be replanted, why isn't any one realising the massive environmental benefit from REDUCED emissions, since people will finally be able to leave their car/bike at home?

WHO recently a study on PM 10 and PM 2.5 emissions (fine particulate matter of size ~ 10 - 2.5 micrometers)

vox com / 2014 / 5 / 12 / 5700532 / chinas - air - pollution - may - be - bad - but - indias - is - much - worse

Rawalpindi is in TOP TEN most polluted air cities! In the world

These emission are caused by fuel emissions. Rawalpindi has hodgepodge of transit systems, from private cars/bikes, to wagons, suzukis, chingchis, taxis and rickshaws.

Currently, it is CHEAPER and QUICKER to go on bike from Pindi to Isloo and back than it is with wagon.

Buses will be comfier, but they won't change cost or time factor.

But Metro Bus, with reserved track increasing speed, and increased capacity (bigger size articulated buses) will reduce costs.

This will finally allow people to leave their private transport at home, and choose public transit, reducing emissions.

But no one cares about Rawalpindi's environment!

Where did you saw my Post before... I didn't post anywhere... well i do agree with you the reason for my post was for the People like Asad Umer who are busy in criticizing Metro bus Project and quoting Asian Development Bank report.. i am in favour of Metro bus in future these elevated routes can be used for Light train as well which will cost low as compared to start from zero.... Rawalpindi and Karachi to are in top 10 most polluted cities

 

[B+ Dracula]

Rawalpindi is in TOP TEN most polluted air cities! In the world
These emission are caused by fuel emissions. Rawalpindi has hodgepodge of transit systems, from private cars/bikes, to wagons, suzukis, chingchis, taxis and rickshaws.
Currently, it is CHEAPER and QUICKER to go on bike from Pindi to Isloo and back than it is with wagon.
Buses will be comfier, but they won't change cost or time factor.
But Metro Bus, with reserved track increasing speed, and increased capacity (bigger size articulated buses) will reduce costs.
This will finally allow people to leave their private transport at home, and choose public transit, reducing emissions.
But no one cares about Rawalpindi's environment!

EAST & WEST - MOTORBIKES ARE BEST

 

[ryzvonusef]

EAST & WEST - MOTORBIKES ARE BEST

If you *want* to ride, that's a separate thing, but you shouldn't be "forced" to ride a bike just because the public transit makes no sense.

People shouldn't be forced to use private transport because they cannot rely on public transport. It shouldn't be cheaper to go privately.

 

[Muhammad Junaid Sial]

Please Man!!!!!! what kind of people are u all, the ones opposing are not opposing why it is being made, they are opposing how it is being and why do people cry for grounds and parks because it provides a better and healthy environment dont you want fresh air and if not why do u people go to northern areas and murree and other places just because you can breath in fresh air.And thats what people are crying for and the other thing is i have never seen traffic jams on ninth avenue nor anywhere else except for the Islamabad Highway on which ofcourse the metro bus is not being made and we the project could had been made on the existing ninth avenue as they have made in jinnah avenue after pressure from the owners of commercial areas and the point is billions would had been saved which could had been utilised for expansion of metro bus in pindi and could expanded in the same money till Rawat and Bhara Kahu from which would had helped more people so the point is before making project feasibility studies should had been done and sitting in islamabad and pindi ofcourse not by the company and its employees residing in Lahore should be doing it. And please instead of appreciating the person you are criticising him please if a project is for the common no one is going to criticise it but that doesnot mean that you build one without planning and proper study i think if the project would had been launched with proper planning no one had the reason to criticise it but the government is itself who has provided the opportunity while government itself praises Chinese that they take time to plan things and then quickly execute them. But they themselves donot follow them.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

a sane advise! dont trade grren belt for some short term benefits. we Bangaloreans are big victim .. learn from our mistake.

we are third class people of third rate 3rd world country
will will dig our own grave

if Islamabad turns into a rotten state of undroon Lahore then so be it.

these bastards destroyed the forests on Margalla and put the rest of the forest on fire so that the blatant mass scale theft can be hidden and blamed on random fire.

there is no point in mourning over the loss of green belt because the morons will say people dont have enough to eat and you mourning over the environmental impact? but they wont allow you to use their own reasoning against the excessive destruction and costly metro project which wont help the poor but fill the bottomless pockets of the leeches that are eyeing on the 22 Billion project.

we have hunted some rare animals to extinction, we destroyed the forests and green belt stands no chance at all.
the thumbs are so deep inside the arse of the people who have come up with the plan that they cant care less about the negative impacts and also Pindi and Islamabad has to be punished for voting for Sheikh Rasheed and PTI...

all in the name of democracy. the main idea was never public service and coverage.. but punishing the traders and people who voted for PTI .. the loosing Nawaz league leader Hanif Abbasi is having a field day and taunting people that this is his "gift" to people who voted for Rasheed and Imran Khan.