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Pilgrims flock to crocodile shrine in Karachi as Taliban threat recedes

We have similar Khan jahan ali mazar in Bagerhat Khulna with couple of crocs, adjacent to his UNESCO heritage site 60 dome mosque.

In Sylhet we have mazar of Shah Jalal where people feed fishes, pigeon and in Chittagong Baizid Bostami where people feed Turtles.
 
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there are million of pious spirits, upto God which to put on duty where. My point was about saints not dying and I stand with it.

Regarding the pic ,I am not sure this is how blessing is taken. It rather seems he is presenting baby to be devoured by the croc


There is no misconception or pre islamic superstition, if u choose not to accept islamic history and have no knowledge about important islamic personalities else than what U read in Islamiat course books, don't be shy , there should be room for islamic history knowledge always through reading different material on the subject.lol I like the way how cleverly U shoved such a strong example in such a retarded way since you have no answer.

A shrine for worshipping is a figment of your imagination, I don't take shrine as a place of worship.

You are confused because you don't want to agree and I am surely giving U Answers to all your queries. Nothing is confusing about my post, I gave examples too. It doesn't get any clearer and easier than this.

I am surprised all you people have weak knowledge about islamic history. And this is clear to me because The concept of immortality is also given for a shaheed, and if you don't even know immortality concept of shaheed even then please get a good teacher to teach U islam and its history. You are just wasting my time by your ignorance on Islam and its history.

Any one can copy paste Hadith and ayats, get some knowledge to create a base for arguement or gaining knowledge. I am not here to fulfill duties of your parents and teachers to teach you basics.

What you have blabbering about is out of your misconceptions which I have proven by quran and hadith is wrong.

A shaheed is called alive in quran in terms of their sustenance. The sustenance doesnt stop for a shaheed. Not that they are still listening to your requests and invoking Allah to grant them. They have no such power.

Prove it to me by quran or sahih hadeeth that people are still alive after death instead of your personal attacks. I choose not to reply to them.

Instead of pointing it out you better check your knowledge of Islam than inventing your own concepts in it.
 
I can read Quran and understand it pretty well, thank you very much. Furthermore, Allah didn't quote anywhere inside the Quran-e-Kareem that lifestyle cheat sheet resides in Sunnah. That is all Takfiri propaganda.

Actually he has a point. Much of the Quran was delivered without ever clearly mentioning the context. We can't understand what it truly is saying in many of the ayats if we do not take the help of the Ahadith, Sunnah and/or recorded history to determine the context. The examples are the many ayat used as propaganda against Islam because they weren't ever understood in the context. If you pick up the Quran right now and read it in and of itself you will indeed find verses commanding to perform a certain act but if you look at the ahadith and the historical context you will find out that it was sent for a very particular situation of that particular time (many examples out there). Then there is the issue of the many religious obligations only found in sunnah or explained in the ahadith, e.g. the way to perform the Salat. There are many irrefutable commandments of the Prophet (SAW) which are not in the Quran. However the Quran does say that he who does not obey the commandments of the Prophet (SAW) is doomed. This is also the reason why the Sahabah in the time of the Prophet sought his, and then after him of his closest companions', help in understanding the Word that had been revealed. Many scholars agree that this is the reason that there are countless ayats in the Quran telling the believers to Obey Allah (the Quran) and the Prophet in the same sentence. Almost all the scholastic circles in Islam have agreed on the importance of the Sunnah in understanding Islam. These scholars were painfully academic in their approaches (not the mullahs you see today) and actually even laid down methods of negotiating discrepancies, but today people care even less about following what is correct than reading the works of these people hence we don't even know that these works are out there. The Quran is the lecture slides and the Sunnah is the foot-notes.

This thing has hurt us a lot, people have over the years intentionally and unknowingly interpreted the Quran incorrectly because they had no clue of the context.

Furthermore, there is consensus in the scholastic circles of Islam that all the varieties of Sunnah that are confirmed are all eligible to be followed, provided their context does not differentiate between them and also the context in which you are seeking their guidance (fold arms on the belly or on your chest is both permissible). It is the ahadith though that hold problems of discrepancy. There have been academic methods devised to make the process of determining the credibility of Ahadith more robust and hence eliminate the discrepancies but some still slip through, given the nature of ancient information transmission (although there are methods of negotiating around these discrepancies, as I mentioned before). But the Ahadith are not thought of as a requisite, partly due to the reasons mentioned above, but the Sunnah is, which is more robust given that almost all of the Muslim society of that time was witness to it.

Word of God is word of God (The Holy Quran) and EVERYTHING ELSE is hearsay, AKA "narrated by XYZ"..................

These XYZs are also the very people who narrated the Quran as well... :P


The Almighty has given you guidelines to follow, nowhere in the The Noble Qur'an he tells you to follow him. He has promised to keep The Noble Qur'an the same from day til the end of Days.

Kindly open the Quran and stop spreading misinformation...

Whatever it is, its sure as fock that these idiots aren't practicing Islam.

You do know that your above post was just as un-Islamic as their practice if not more, right? And I can quote you quite a few Quranic and Hadeeth references for that.
 
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Let them do whatever they please, they aren't harming anyone. That water looks filthy though..
 
It is a shame being a Muslim u believe in superficial things like crocodile blessings baba's or shrines, Allah is enough to listen ur problem and helping u, then going to these stinky places..
 
What you have blabbering about is out of your misconceptions which I have proven by quran and hadith is wrong.

A shaheed is called alive in quran in terms of their sustenance. The sustenance doesnt stop for a shaheed. Not that they are still listening to your requests and invoking Allah to grant them. They have no such power.

Prove it to me by quran or sahih hadeeth that people are still alive after death instead of your personal attacks. I choose not to reply to them.

Instead of pointing it out you better check your knowledge of Islam than inventing your own concepts in it.

I never made any personal attack against you. I will however point out the weaknesses in your arguements by ignoring facts about muslim history and will mention you the ways to get it, if you call that a personal attack then thats your own thinking. You chose to forget and ignore about hazrat Owais Karni R.A and called it misconception etc, which its not actually. So if you choose to ignore what you dont like to hear and give it a wrong colour, i dont feel the need to carry on

A shaheed is mentioned alive by Allah so yes an alive person can listen and can do everything that an alive person is capable of, so your concept is refuting Allah. If Allah called them alive how can you say they cannot listen and invoke Allah to grant and have no such power.

This isnt the first arguement on this topic, google is full of hadith and ayats that even you can find yoirself on this topic regarding what i wrote. But before i jump to that corner i have seen you giving name of superstition etc islamic history regarding Hazrat Owais Karni R.A , and then claiming confusion over a simple thing that muslims have problems, and finally going against word of Allah and deciding on your own that shaheed cant do various actions.

I think im not the one inventing concepts here, you are.
 
I never made any personal attack against you. I will however point out the weaknesses in your arguements by ignoring facts about muslim history and will mention you the ways to get it, if you call that a personal attack then thats your own thinking. You chose to forget and ignore about hazrat Owais Karni R.A and called it misconception etc, which its not actually. So if you choose to ignore what you dont like to hear and give it a wrong colour, i dont feel the need to carry on

A shaheed is mentioned alive by Allah so yes an alive person can listen and can do everything that an alive person is capable of, so your concept is refuting Allah. If Allah called them alive how can you say they cannot listen and invoke Allah to grant and have no such power.

This isnt the first arguement on this topic, google is full of hadith and ayats that even you can find yoirself on this topic regarding what i wrote. But before i jump to that corner i have seen you giving name of superstition etc islamic history regarding Hazrat Owais Karni R.A , and then claiming confusion over a simple thing that muslims have problems, and finally going against word of Allah and deciding on your own that shaheed cant do various actions.

I think im not the one inventing concepts here, you are.

I think you misunderstood me I never touched the topic of owais qarni. I was pointing out to your concept of being alive in a sense that they will hear people and invoke Allah to grant it which is no where proven by Quran or sunnah. Instead it is said in Quran:

If you invoke (or call upon) them, they hear not your call; and if (in case) they were to hear, they could not grant it (your request) to you [Faatir 35:13-14]

As for the shaheed you are just assuming that they can listen and further invoke Allah. The nature of this life mentioned in the quran is not explained and it is not the life similar to the world. If you read the commentary of these verses you will get to know.This is a special life, the nature of which is known to Allaah. It is not like the life of this world in which the soul remains with the body.

The basic principle concerning the dead is that they do not hear the words of the living, because Allaah says

“but you cannot make hear those who are in graves”

[Faatir 35:22]

Allaah confirmed that those whom the Prophet SAW was calling to Islam could not hear, by likening them to the dead. They were not literally dead were they?

I have mentioned you Quran and literally tried to explain to you. In return you are just giving me your opinion over the matter which doesnt hold much credibility in religion. These are the basics of tawheed that we never ask someone else for help other than to Allah directly. These were the reasons the pre islamic people got into shirk and idol worshipping. Allah is supreme and he doesnt require request from a dead person to grant a third person something when he cant even help himself.
 
I think you misunderstood me I never touched the topic of owais qarni. I was pointing out to your concept of being alive in a sense that they will hear people and invoke Allah to grant it which is no where proven by Quran or sunnah. Instead it is said in Quran:

If you invoke (or call upon) them, they hear not your call; and if (in case) they were to hear, they could not grant it (your request) to you [Faatir 35:13-14]

As for the shaheed you are just assuming that they can listen and further invoke Allah. The nature of this life mentioned in the quran is not explained and it is not the life similar to the world. If you read the commentary of these verses you will get to know.This is a special life, the nature of which is known to Allaah. It is not like the life of this world in which the soul remains with the body.

The basic principle concerning the dead is that they do not hear the words of the living, because Allaah says

“but you cannot make hear those who are in graves”

[Faatir 35:22]

Allaah confirmed that those whom the Prophet SAW was calling to Islam could not hear, by likening them to the dead. They were not literally dead were they?

I have mentioned you Quran and literally tried to explain to you. In return you are just giving me your opinion over the matter which doesnt hold much credibility in religion. These are the basics of tawheed that we never ask someone else for help other than to Allah directly. These were the reasons the pre islamic people got into shirk and idol worshipping. Allah is supreme and he doesnt require request from a dead person to grant a third person something when he cant even help himself.

So you want to look at one side of the story still. I still think that you need to read a few books to know exactly whats going on instead of just pasting ayats etc. and i will explain again to you. if ayats are to be taken literally, then why is Tafseer or explanation of these ayats there, so you understand the complete meaning. if it says in Koran, for example, to kill all non believers, will u take it as a word of Allah and pick up a gun and start killing all non believers or would u rather get to know whats being said in the ayat and understand what Allah is saying in that ayat.

Mate, no disrespect, but you dont have basic knowledge and i hate pointing it out again and again, i also agree that im no scholar. Go and read some books, obtain knowledge from different kinds of books on same topic. I also read books and i can tell you a few here :
Tazkiraya ul Anbiya
Qasas ul Awliya
Fazail darood shareef to name a few

anyways, regarding your post.
This ayat Faatir (35:13,14) you pasted here is not even complete. You have just picked up the part which you favour. If you had pasted the complete 13 and 14 ayats from this Surah, you would know that these ayats are explaining worshipping of sun and moon and the cycle of day and night. No one worships saints, worship in islam is only for Allah, all the people who go to shrines offers namaz to Allah, not to saint. or for your sake, not to sun and moon.

Next you mentioned shaheeds, the immortals who are still living, your point is nature of life is not explained. Okay, i can say the same to you and argue that the nature of life is not explained so you are also assuming that they cant invoke or listen, because Allah says they are alive so you dont have a proof also that they cant do what an alive person can do. but leave this discussion and although i can take this point further that Allah calls them alive so they can do all the things a living person can do but this discussion would make this page a courtroom and us lawyers.
If you read Surah al-imran ayats 169-173, its about shaheeds. In ayat 169, in the latter part it is said about shaheeds having provision or subsistence. If you read tafseer, it will explain more to you.

Surah Faatir (35:22) that you have pasted. have you read the context and tafseer? obviously not. If you read tafseer, this is being said about the non believers because the dead cannot benefit from guidance and the call to truth after they have died as disbelievers and ended up in the graves, so we cannot help these idol woorshippers who are decreed to be doomed, and cannot be guided.
If you use common sense here,living muslims say salam to dead muslims in grave. I have already mentioned an ayat to you that pious spirits live in the sky and descend from sky for duties on earth. These spirits are of pious people who are dead in our eyes but living still and working for Allah.

It has been narrated that the Prophet SAW said: "I passed by Musa on the night of my Journey while he was praying in his grave."[79] reference: A sound (sahih) tradition related on the authority of Anas and others by Muslim, Nasa'i, Bayhaqi in the Dala'il al-nubuwwa and the Hayat al-anbiya, and Suyuti in Anba' al-adhkya' and Sharh al-sudur. Nawawi said in his commentary on this hadith: "The work of the next world is all dhikr and du`a" (Sharh Sahih Muslim 1/73/267).

So Mate, i have not only pointed out your weakness in the discussion of merely copy pasting the parts of ayats through which you want to prove your point as if there is no tomorrow but also told you how to gain knowledge regarding tafseer, and mentioned a few books to start with also. Honestly, there are many sunni vs wahabi forums which you can find through google who have already answered all the ayats and hadiths that you can paste here to make your point. I would rather like to post on something relevant to sufi saints rather than replying to your copy pasted ayats. If i dont reply you any further is not my rudness or shyness but i feel my time wasted on something which is already discussed to death on various islamic forums, you can join there and u will find all debates , all wars and replies to what you can copy paste. My time is precious for me as i have mentioned before.
 
So you want to look at one side of the story still. I still think that you need to read a few books to know exactly whats going on instead of just pasting ayats etc. and i will explain again to you. if ayats are to be taken literally, then why is Tafseer or explanation of these ayats there, so you understand the complete meaning. if it says in Koran, for example, to kill all non believers, will u take it as a word of Allah and pick up a gun and start killing all non believers or would u rather get to know whats being said in the ayat and understand what Allah is saying in that ayat.

Mate, no disrespect, but you dont have basic knowledge and i hate pointing it out again and again, i also agree that im no scholar. Go and read some books, obtain knowledge from different kinds of books on same topic. I also read books and i can tell you a few here :
Tazkiraya ul Anbiya
Qasas ul Awliya
Fazail darood shareef to name a few

anyways, regarding your post.
This ayat Faatir (35:13,14) you pasted here is not even complete. You have just picked up the part which you favour. If you had pasted the complete 13 and 14 ayats from this Surah, you would know that these ayats are explaining worshipping of sun and moon and the cycle of day and night. No one worships saints, worship in islam is only for Allah, all the people who go to shrines offers namaz to Allah, not to saint. or for your sake, not to sun and moon.

Next you mentioned shaheeds, the immortals who are still living, your point is nature of life is not explained. Okay, i can say the same to you and argue that the nature of life is not explained so you are also assuming that they cant invoke or listen, because Allah says they are alive so you dont have a proof also that they cant do what an alive person can do. but leave this discussion and although i can take this point further that Allah calls them alive so they can do all the things a living person can do but this discussion would make this page a courtroom and us lawyers.
If you read Surah al-imran ayats 169-173, its about shaheeds. In ayat 169, in the latter part it is said about shaheeds having provision or subsistence. If you read tafseer, it will explain more to you.

Surah Faatir (35:22) that you have pasted. have you read the context and tafseer? obviously not. If you read tafseer, this is being said about the non believers because the dead cannot benefit from guidance and the call to truth after they have died as disbelievers and ended up in the graves, so we cannot help these idol woorshippers who are decreed to be doomed, and cannot be guided.
If you use common sense here,living muslims say salam to dead muslims in grave. I have already mentioned an ayat to you that pious spirits live in the sky and descend from sky for duties on earth. These spirits are of pious people who are dead in our eyes but living still and working for Allah.

It has been narrated that the Prophet SAW said: "I passed by Musa on the night of my Journey while he was praying in his grave."[79] reference: A sound (sahih) tradition related on the authority of Anas and others by Muslim, Nasa'i, Bayhaqi in the Dala'il al-nubuwwa and the Hayat al-anbiya, and Suyuti in Anba' al-adhkya' and Sharh al-sudur. Nawawi said in his commentary on this hadith: "The work of the next world is all dhikr and du`a" (Sharh Sahih Muslim 1/73/267).

So Mate, i have not only pointed out your weakness in the discussion of merely copy pasting the parts of ayats through which you want to prove your point as if there is no tomorrow but also told you how to gain knowledge regarding tafseer, and mentioned a few books to start with also. Honestly, there are many sunni vs wahabi forums which you can find through google who have already answered all the ayats and hadiths that you can paste here to make your point. I would rather like to post on something relevant to sufi saints rather than replying to your copy pasted ayats. If i dont reply you any further is not my rudness or shyness but i feel my time wasted on something which is already discussed to death on various islamic forums, you can join there and u will find all debates , all wars and replies to what you can copy paste. My time is precious for me as i have mentioned before.

Likewise. No disrespect. Instead of suggesting me books suggest yourself a book and learn Quran and Arabic. When you got no knowledge of Arabic can lead to these confusions. You rather suggest yourself a book and learn Arabic then you might not have these confusions. If you had any knowledge we wouldn't be having this conversation in the first place. For you I suggest to read the translations 'very closely' to actually grasp what you are reading. Then you might understand better than spirits of dead people coming down to earth to help you in bad times like a Hindi movie for which you can provide no evidence still.

This ayat Faatir (35:13,14) which i have pasted (which somehow according to you makes it less credible coz i have pasted it) does not I repeat does not refer to worshipping of moon and the sun. It speaks about the sun and the moon running their course as commanded by Allah. And then refers to 'those whom' (in Arabic at least) you call upon other than Allah does not not point out sun and the moon. It means anyone or thing you call upon other than Allah cannot hear you. Period!

Next you mentioned me assuming about a shaheed not able to listen to your supplications. Fair Play. But answer me this why didn't the prophet or the sahaba asked the shaheed of their time to invoke Allah on their behalf. Why didn't the prophet call upon his uncle who was one of the great shaheed of his time. So I can safely assume that being in barzakh cannot make you listen to supplication made by living people. They are indeed alive but not soul in body. As for the prophets who pray in their graves according to the prophet's hadith but cannot listen to people invoking them. As for praying the graves it is limited to the prophets only. You are more than welcome to still show me a single authentic ayah or hadith.

Surah Faatir (35:22) which I have pasted talks about how can the living and the dead be equal. Allah is the one who can make anyone or anything listen. The dead mentioned in this ayah are not actually dead they are the ones whose hearts are sealed and are likened to dead people by Allah. Further mentioning it is said in the ayah as if these people are in their graves that they cannot listen to what the prophet is calling to clearly states that people in the grave cannot listen to anyone. Which can also be applied to the shaheeds. Another confusion due to your limited knowledge of the language and your over reliance on 'books'. These are the basics of tawheed which we shouldn't be confused with. These are the basis of Aqeedah and the basis of our deeds.

Seriously speaking this is the not a competition for me as to who is right. I am referring to what I believe is right and trying to explain it to you with evidence. I would be more than glad if you are proven right but I am sure of what I am writing. Nothing personal with you nor I am looking for some kind of war. I would be glad if you don't try and make it a sect debate. It is all about the right knowledge of the religion and there is no sunni or wahabbi Islam. It is all about Islam and there are no contradictions in it. I leave it up to you if you wanna take it further.
 
I have no idea if this crocodile is really interested in blessing this man's five months old baby.

article-1286284-0A03F25C000005DC-386_634x399.jpg

Lol!! Should be an epic caption for a great picture!!
 
yh it understandable this is shirk but who are we to judge. They not bothering anyone plus the croc brings tourism.
lets compare these lot to our politicians = selling out, mujra, kiss USA boots, drink whiskey that is finer and purer than one in UK etc. The worst bit is when you see poor Pakistanis especially women and children begging for food thousands of hands up in the air and at the same time you see the latest Mercedes that cost same as property driving past.
 
The dervish is engrossed in the worship of Allah and His loving prophet Hazrat Muhammad SAW all the time. and it is Allah's greatness that He doesnt let such devotion and such love go unrewarded. Allah gives His blessings and shows His signs at such places then.

Not only muslims came to these dervishes with their problems, but also people of other religions in old times and even now.Allah constitutes a system of "Faiz"(continuous blessings) on his beloved ones. People come to sulphur springs for skin related diseases.

Sulphur springs are located a kilometer away from the shrine.Warm water passing through the sulphur rocks contains some medicinal qualities and many people from long distances, with skin diseases regularly visit there to have a bath to cure them. There are separate swimming pools and shower rooms for men and women. Scientific analysis also show this warm water is naturally saturated with carbon dioxide, besides containing some sulphur and other skin friendly nourishments, which are no doubt suitable for many skin-diseased patients. The temperature of these sulfur ponds remains between 43C (110F) to 54C (130F).

If the life history of Mangho Pir(Haji Syed Khawaja Hassan Sakhi Sultan) is read, it is known he spent his days in prayer and seeking spiritual attainments. In ancient times this place is reported to have been the sacred place of the Hindus. With the presence of this saint at Manghopir, many hindus converted to Islam.

If you go to a grave of an ordinary muslim , you will not find anything like this, nothing beneficial there for mankind like hot springs. People in old times and people in modern times go to such holy shrines where Allah's blessings are for people to see. Ishq for such buzurgs and dervishes attract people to such places, who would waste time and come to see such places. But people not only get attracted to these buzurgs in their lifetime but Allah keeps an attraction in peoples hearts even after these buzurgs are transferred into the next world. People find spiritual peace, inner peace at shrines of buzurgs. A grave of a normal muslim even doesnt possess such peace, relatives can hardly stand for 15 minutes there on eid day, offer fateha and go home. But people spend long hours and days and nights at shrines for they find contentment at the feet of dervish who is a beloved of Allah.
 

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