PIA plane crash near Model Colony Karachi with 93+ on board

[Fawadqasim1]

The question is did he botch that approach
due to his confused mindset or due to relying on a faulty data set ? A "proper" analysis of the flight data recorder may shed some light on this question.

did they find the flight data recorder?
Do they have it now? is it shipshape? are they analysing it as we speak?

 

[PakSword]

PIA8303 had a descent of over 7000 ft/min on Friday
Altitude graph:

Source: Aviation Safety Network
https://aviation-safety.net/photo/10639/Airbus-A320-214-AP-BLD

More 5500+ ft/min descents of PIA at Karachi airport in May 2020:

May 17- The very same Aircraft, PIA 8303 . 30,574 ft to 13,575 ft in 3 min . Descent rate of 5633 ft/min.
https://flightaware.com/live/flight/PIA8303/history/20200517/0754Z/OPLA/OPKC/tracklog

May 21- PIA 8309 - 16725 to 11150 ft in 1 min. 5500 ft/min descent.
https://flightaware.com/live/flight/PIA8309/history/20200521/0740Z/OPIS/OPKC/tracklog

Since the crash, the descent rates are more stable at a consistent sub 2500 ft/min.
This goes well beyond a one time pilot error.
Given these past approaches of PIA flights , the PIA 8303 crash being pilot error just shifts the responsibility form the PIA maintenance department to the PIA Human Resource department.
PIA has the responsibility to train their flight crews, monitor their performance and to enforce standards.

Why would they do it like that? Is it related to fuel consumption somehow?

 

[Fawadqasim1]

it's man vs machine was it the deceased captain or was it the flight data computer. I think you people have made your mind but as a well trained and practiced lawyer I haven't .so

 

[ejaz007]

Plane crash probe: PIA admin, pilots faceoff

Plane crash probe: PIA admin, pilots faceoff

KARACGHI: The pilot of the ill-fated Pakistan International Airlines (PIA) plane that crashed on Friday ignored warnings from air traffic control about the plane’s height and speed as the aircraft approached for landing, said a report from air traffic control. However, the pilots’ organisation had shown its anger over leaking the details and said that it is a conspiracy to divert the direction of the probe into the plane crash incident.

The PIA plane, with 99 people on board, crashed in Model Colony near Jinnah International Airport on Friday. Ninety-seven people have been confirmed dead, while two survived the crash miraculously.

The on-duty air traffic controller and the approach tower controller told the Air Investigation Board (AIB) in a written reply on Tuesday that the pilot of PK-8303 ignored the repeated instructions.

According to the air traffic control, the flight left the Lahore airport at 01 05 pm and was scheduled to land at the Jinnah International Airport in Karachi at 2 30pm.

“The plane had enough fuel in it to fly for two hours and 34 minutes while its total flying time was recorded at one hour and 33 minutes,” the report said. “At 2 30pm, the plane was 15 nautical miles from Karachi at Makli flying at an altitude of 10,000 feet above the ground instead of 7,000 when air traffic control issued its first warning to the pilot to lower the plane's altitude.”

Instead of lowering the plane's altitude, the pilot responded by saying that he was satisfied. “When only 10 nautical miles were left till the Karachi airport the plane was at an altitude of 7,000 feet instead of 3 000 feet,” the report said.

The report states that air traffic control issued a second warning to the pilot to lower the plane's altitude. However, the pilot responded again by stating that he was satisfied and would handle the situation saying he was ready for landing.

The ATC further said that the captain landed the plane for the first time without opening the landing gear. On the first landing, both engines collided with the runway and rubbed against it three times and caused sparking before the captain pulled the plane back up and asked for permission to land again.

Three long marks have been observed and recorded by the CAA s experts on the runway. However, Pakistan Airline Pilots Association (Palpa) protested over leaking the details and said that it was aimed at diverting the probe into an incident.

“The administration seems no more interested in conducting a thorough probe into the incident,” the Palpa said. “They wanted to save the real characters behind the incident.” The association said that the pilots also have questions to be asked from the air traffic control officials.

The Palpa leaders expressed their concern as to why a long route was designated for the ill-fated plane. “The air traffic control officials are trying to portray a wrong picture by merging details of first and second landing attempts from the plane,” the association said.

The pilots’ body demanded the authorities to fulfill the promise they committed with the father of martyred PIA Pilot Sajjad Gul regarding not leaking inquiry reports into the matter.

Major progress has been made in the investigation into the PIA plane crash incident as ATC and approach tower controllers submitted their written responses before the aircraft accident and investigation, it has learnT.

Meanwhile, aviation authorities said Tuesday they have shared their initial findings with the visiting 11-member team from the European plane maker.

The Airbus experts and engineers are also to visit the crash site, according to Abdul Hafeez, a spokesman for PIA. “We are providing all possible assistance to the technical experts of Airbus,” he said.

The plane made failed attempts to land at the Karachi airport before the crash. Authorities found the plane’s black box and have been guarding the crash site to facilitate the probe. The plane last received a government check last November. PIA’s chief engineer signed a separate certificate on April 28, confirming all maintenance had been conducted. Airbus has said the two-engine plane had logged 47,100 flight hours and 25,860 flights as of last Friday.

Meanwhile, rejecting the present probe body, the Sindh government has demanded constitution of a new committee to investigate the PIA plane crash incident in Karachi comprising representatives of PALPA, foreign aviators, international civil aviation experts and Airbus officials.

The demand to this effect was made by Sindh Information Minister Syed Nasir Hussain Shah, Education Minister Saeed Ghani and Energy Minister Imtiaz Shaikh while addressing a joint press conference here on Tuesday. Speaking on the occasion, Sindh Education and Labour Minister Saeed Ghani said that they had serious reservations about the committee constituted by the federal government to investigate the plane crash incident.

He demanded that incumbent chiefs of PIA and the Civil Aviation Authority should be suspended on immediate basis so that both the authorities could not influence the ongoing probe process.

He held the chiefs of PIA and CAA responsible for the plane crash incident as an open and transparent inquiry should be conducted to probe the incident. He said that the Sindh Building Control Authority and Cantonment authorities could also be involved in the probe process.

He said that officials who had been made part of the present probe committee had a direct link with the present PIA chief Arshad Malik. “Since the time this tragedy has occurred the chief of PIA Arshad Malik on one occasion said that bird hit was responsible for the plane crash incident on the other occasion he blamed the senior pilot for the air tragedy. What would be the purpose of this probe committee if he (the PIA chief) has already made up his mind,” he said.

To a question, he said that the chief executive officer of the PIA Arshad Malik had been attempting to hold the senior pilot of the fateful plane fully responsible for the air crash tragedy. He said that in the final moments before the crash voice of the captain exhibited no signs of nervousness in the recording of the communication between air traffic control and the plane.

He said that media had not been invited when the provincial authorities had gone to visit people affected by the plane crash incident. He said that the conduct of the Sindh government after the plane crash tragedy had been very responsible.

He said that Sindh government had offered to the family of the three women who had received burn injuries in the plane crash incident to get them treatment from any private hospital but they had expressed satisfaction over the treatment being provided to the injured ladies at the Burns Centre of Civil Hospital Karachi.

He said that Sindh cabinet members Syed Nasir Hussain Shah and Murtaza Wahab had met the injured women at the Burns Centre on the second day of Eidul Fitr.

Speaking on the occasion, Sindh Information and Local Government Minister Syed Nasir Hussain Shah said that the Sindh government’s own forensic laboratory of the international standard had been doing the analysis of the DNA samples obtained from the bodies of the plane crash victims. He said that they would start receiving results of the forensic analysis from the present night.

He said that unidentified bodies of all the leftover victims of the plane crash would be handed over to the bereaved families in next 10 days. He expressed gratitude to the area residents, volunteers of the various relief organizations, district administration, personnel of police, rangers, and army for conducting the emergency rescue operation in the immediate aftermath of the plane crash incident. He said that Sindh chief ministers and his cabinet members had immediately rushed to the site of the tragic incident after the crash incident

https://www.thenews.com.pk/print/663510-plane-crash-probe-pia-admin-pilots-faceoff

 

[Fawadqasim1]

Plane crash probe: PIA admin, pilots faceoff

Plane crash probe: PIA admin, pilots faceoff

KARACGHI: The pilot of the ill-fated Pakistan International Airlines (PIA) plane that crashed on Friday ignored warnings from air traffic control about the plane’s height and speed as the aircraft approached for landing, said a report from air traffic control. However, the pilots’ organisation had shown its anger over leaking the details and said that it is a conspiracy to divert the direction of the probe into the plane crash incident.

The PIA plane, with 99 people on board, crashed in Model Colony near Jinnah International Airport on Friday. Ninety-seven people have been confirmed dead, while two survived the crash miraculously.

The on-duty air traffic controller and the approach tower controller told the Air Investigation Board (AIB) in a written reply on Tuesday that the pilot of PK-8303 ignored the repeated instructions.

According to the air traffic control, the flight left the Lahore airport at 01 05 pm and was scheduled to land at the Jinnah International Airport in Karachi at 2 30pm.

“The plane had enough fuel in it to fly for two hours and 34 minutes while its total flying time was recorded at one hour and 33 minutes,” the report said. “At 2 30pm, the plane was 15 nautical miles from Karachi at Makli flying at an altitude of 10,000 feet above the ground instead of 7,000 when air traffic control issued its first warning to the pilot to lower the plane's altitude.”

Instead of lowering the plane's altitude, the pilot responded by saying that he was satisfied. “When only 10 nautical miles were left till the Karachi airport the plane was at an altitude of 7,000 feet instead of 3 000 feet,” the report said.

The report states that air traffic control issued a second warning to the pilot to lower the plane's altitude. However, the pilot responded again by stating that he was satisfied and would handle the situation saying he was ready for landing.

The ATC further said that the captain landed the plane for the first time without opening the landing gear. On the first landing, both engines collided with the runway and rubbed against it three times and caused sparking before the captain pulled the plane back up and asked for permission to land again.

Three long marks have been observed and recorded by the CAA s experts on the runway. However, Pakistan Airline Pilots Association (Palpa) protested over leaking the details and said that it was aimed at diverting the probe into an incident.

“The administration seems no more interested in conducting a thorough probe into the incident,” the Palpa said. “They wanted to save the real characters behind the incident.” The association said that the pilots also have questions to be asked from the air traffic control officials.

The Palpa leaders expressed their concern as to why a long route was designated for the ill-fated plane. “The air traffic control officials are trying to portray a wrong picture by merging details of first and second landing attempts from the plane,” the association said.

The pilots’ body demanded the authorities to fulfill the promise they committed with the father of martyred PIA Pilot Sajjad Gul regarding not leaking inquiry reports into the matter.

Major progress has been made in the investigation into the PIA plane crash incident as ATC and approach tower controllers submitted their written responses before the aircraft accident and investigation, it has learnT.

Meanwhile, aviation authorities said Tuesday they have shared their initial findings with the visiting 11-member team from the European plane maker.

The Airbus experts and engineers are also to visit the crash site, according to Abdul Hafeez, a spokesman for PIA. “We are providing all possible assistance to the technical experts of Airbus,” he said.

The plane made failed attempts to land at the Karachi airport before the crash. Authorities found the plane’s black box and have been guarding the crash site to facilitate the probe. The plane last received a government check last November. PIA’s chief engineer signed a separate certificate on April 28, confirming all maintenance had been conducted. Airbus has said the two-engine plane had logged 47,100 flight hours and 25,860 flights as of last Friday.

Meanwhile, rejecting the present probe body, the Sindh government has demanded constitution of a new committee to investigate the PIA plane crash incident in Karachi comprising representatives of PALPA, foreign aviators, international civil aviation experts and Airbus officials.

The demand to this effect was made by Sindh Information Minister Syed Nasir Hussain Shah, Education Minister Saeed Ghani and Energy Minister Imtiaz Shaikh while addressing a joint press conference here on Tuesday. Speaking on the occasion, Sindh Education and Labour Minister Saeed Ghani said that they had serious reservations about the committee constituted by the federal government to investigate the plane crash incident.

He demanded that incumbent chiefs of PIA and the Civil Aviation Authority should be suspended on immediate basis so that both the authorities could not influence the ongoing probe process.

He held the chiefs of PIA and CAA responsible for the plane crash incident as an open and transparent inquiry should be conducted to probe the incident. He said that the Sindh Building Control Authority and Cantonment authorities could also be involved in the probe process.

He said that officials who had been made part of the present probe committee had a direct link with the present PIA chief Arshad Malik. “Since the time this tragedy has occurred the chief of PIA Arshad Malik on one occasion said that bird hit was responsible for the plane crash incident on the other occasion he blamed the senior pilot for the air tragedy. What would be the purpose of this probe committee if he (the PIA chief) has already made up his mind,” he said.

To a question, he said that the chief executive officer of the PIA Arshad Malik had been attempting to hold the senior pilot of the fateful plane fully responsible for the air crash tragedy. He said that in the final moments before the crash voice of the captain exhibited no signs of nervousness in the recording of the communication between air traffic control and the plane.

He said that media had not been invited when the provincial authorities had gone to visit people affected by the plane crash incident. He said that the conduct of the Sindh government after the plane crash tragedy had been very responsible.

He said that Sindh government had offered to the family of the three women who had received burn injuries in the plane crash incident to get them treatment from any private hospital but they had expressed satisfaction over the treatment being provided to the injured ladies at the Burns Centre of Civil Hospital Karachi.

He said that Sindh cabinet members Syed Nasir Hussain Shah and Murtaza Wahab had met the injured women at the Burns Centre on the second day of Eidul Fitr.

Speaking on the occasion, Sindh Information and Local Government Minister Syed Nasir Hussain Shah said that the Sindh government’s own forensic laboratory of the international standard had been doing the analysis of the DNA samples obtained from the bodies of the plane crash victims. He said that they would start receiving results of the forensic analysis from the present night.

He said that unidentified bodies of all the leftover victims of the plane crash would be handed over to the bereaved families in next 10 days. He expressed gratitude to the area residents, volunteers of the various relief organizations, district administration, personnel of police, rangers, and army for conducting the emergency rescue operation in the immediate aftermath of the plane crash incident. He said that Sindh chief ministers and his cabinet members had immediately rushed to the site of the tragic incident after the crash incident

https://www.thenews.com.pk/print/663510-plane-crash-probe-pia-admin-pilots-faceoff

“The administration seems no more interested in conducting a thorough probe into the incident,” the Palpa said

That's exactly what I am afraid of

 

[Asterisk]

did they find the flight data recorder?
Do they have it now? is it shipshape? are they analysing it as we speak?

The CVR is still missing. The FDR was found but is still in Pakistan.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1265366151334449155

it's man vs machine was it the deceased captain or was it the flight data computer. I think you people have made your mind but as a well trained and practiced lawyer I haven't .so

The flight crew dismissed ATC warnings and replied that they were comfortable with their altitude and speed , which were way above normal.
The same PK8303 had another bad approach days ago , on May 17.
After the crash, PIA flights to KHI airport have been doing proper approaches.
Sounds more bad practices.

PIA8303 had a descent of over 7000 ft/min on Friday
Altitude graph:

Source: Aviation Safety Network
https://aviation-safety.net/photo/10639/Airbus-A320-214-AP-BLD

More 5500+ ft/min descents of PIA at Karachi airport in May 2020:

May 17- The very same Aircraft, PIA 8303 . 30,574 ft to 13,575 ft in 3 min . Descent rate of 5633 ft/min.
https://flightaware.com/live/flight/PIA8303/history/20200517/0754Z/OPLA/OPKC/tracklog

May 21- PIA 8309 - 16725 to 11150 ft in 1 min. 5500 ft/min descent.
https://flightaware.com/live/flight/PIA8309/history/20200521/0740Z/OPIS/OPKC/tracklog

Since the crash, the descent rates are more stable at a consistent sub 2500 ft/min.
This goes well beyond a one time pilot error.
Given these past approaches of PIA flights , the PIA 8303 crash being pilot error just shifts the responsibility form the PIA maintenance department to the PIA Human Resource department.
PIA has the responsibility to train their flight crews, monitor their performance and to enforce standards.

 

[Fawadqasim1]

The CVR is still missing. The FDR was found but is still in Pakistan.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1265366151334449155

The flight crew dismissed ATC warnings and replied that they were comfortable with their altitude and speed , which were way above normal.
The same PK8303 had another bad approach days ago , on May 17.
After the crash, PIA flights to KHI airport have been doing proper approaches.
Sounds more bad practices.

How can PIA survive with such daredevils flying their commercial flights the whole fleet should be grounded immediately

 

[litman]

i have been watching his series and it seems so far that the those in cockpit thought they were flying a fighter jet that day rather then passenger jet.

 

[Destranator]

PIA8303 had a descent of over 7000 ft/min on Friday
Altitude graph:

Source: Aviation Safety Network
https://aviation-safety.net/photo/10639/Airbus-A320-214-AP-BLD

More 5500+ ft/min descents of PIA at Karachi airport in May 2020:

May 17- The very same Aircraft, PIA 8303 . 30,574 ft to 13,575 ft in 3 min . Descent rate of 5633 ft/min.
https://flightaware.com/live/flight/PIA8303/history/20200517/0754Z/OPLA/OPKC/tracklog

May 21- PIA 8309 - 16725 to 11150 ft in 1 min. 5500 ft/min descent.
https://flightaware.com/live/flight/PIA8309/history/20200521/0740Z/OPIS/OPKC/tracklog

Since the crash, the descent rates are more stable at a consistent sub 2500 ft/min.
This goes well beyond a one time pilot error.
Given these past approaches of PIA flights , the PIA 8303 crash being pilot error just shifts the responsibility form the PIA maintenance department to the PIA Human Resource department.
PIA has the responsibility to train their flight crews, monitor their performance and to enforce standards.

I think you or whoever managed to identify this trend has cracked the case. This is clearly a management issue and heads must roll from there.
The poor pilot is largely being blamed but in reality he had little wiggle room.

You can maintain high altitude throughout the flight path to save fuel and yet descend early and safely so the fuel economy argument makes little commercial sense. Having said that, I know for a fact that the Biman board of directors is packed with incompetent fools with zero experience in managing commercial airliners. If it is the same situation with PIA then God help us all.

@Bilal9 bhai what is your opinion on this?

 

[HAIDER]

How can PIA survive with such daredevils flying their commercial flights the whole fleet should be grounded immediately

Don't worry, our pilots bring passenger on single engine.....recent case of Toronto flight, where only one engine was functional . Dissolve pilot association, all labor unions. Fire extra staff. Pilots need to pass some kind of knowledge and fitness exam every year. Otherwise such donkey kongs keep on flying planes and risking the life of passengers and giving bad name to national carrier.

Guys everyone must watch this movie and see how the system is tense for pilots. It is true story and all facts shown in the movie are true and correct.

 

[Bil]

Don't worry, our pilots bring passenger on single engine.....recent case of Toronto flight, where only one engine was functional . Dissolve pilot association, all labor unions. Fire extra staff. Pilots need to pass some kind of knowledge and fitness exam every year. Otherwise such donkey kongs keep on flying planes and risking the life of passengers and giving bad name to national carrier.

Guys everyone must watch this movie and see how the system is tense for pilots.

Many thanks for this share, my family members fly frequently from Toronto to Pakistan (only because its a direct flight to save time). However, after this recent PIA incident and what you have shared, I dont feel comfortable at all having my people go on board with PIA.

 

[VCheng]

Why would they do it like that? Is it related to fuel consumption somehow?

(Please delete this comment if you find it unsuitable, with my apologies.)

May be trying to reduce risk from possible ground fire?

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-pakistan-violence-airplane/gunmen-fire-on-plane-at-pakistans-peshawar-airport

 

[Enigma SIG]

(Please delete this comment if you find it unsuitable, with my apologies.)

May be trying to reduce risk from possible ground fire?

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-pakistan-violence-airplane/gunmen-fire-on-plane-at-pakistans-peshawar-airport

This happened in Karachi, not Mogadishu.

 

[HAIDER]

Now late pilot father saying ...I don't trust in PIA panel investigation. It will be biased.

 

[VCheng]

This happened in Karachi, not Mogadishu.

True, but I am just trying to think of any and all possibilities - no matter how unlikely - to explain such an approach by such an experienced pilot landing at a familiar airport. Apologies if anyone is offended.