PIA plane crash near Model Colony Karachi with 93+ on board

[litman]

as per AM shahid latif it was pilot error. he forgot to deploy the landing gear came in for a normal landing and when the engines touched the runway he realized that he had not deployed the landing gear. then he took off but as the engines were damaged he couldnt make back again . before the first touch down pilot didnt raised any emergency that his landing gears have not been deployed. inquiry result awaited but seems to be a unique incident.

 

[Trango Towers]

It does look like the case.
The 92 news video @Mrc posted says that the plane touched down at 4500 feet mark on a 9000 feet runway.
I checked A320 data and the aircraft's minimum landing distance at operational load in 4500 feet.
So the pilot already landed at minimum distance left to stop the plane.
If the speed was higher than recommended then he couldn't have stopped at the end of remaining runway and had overshot.
This seems to be the reason why he had to re-takeoff.
And if TOGA wasn't engaged then many things can immediately go wrong. Such as unstable plane at full throttle, hence engine scraping.

What no one understands is that the altimeter could also indicate wrong reading. It could be showing 3000ft when its actually 2000ft

 

[Blacklight]

as per AM shahid latif it was pilot error. he forgot to deploy the landing gear came in for a normal landing and when the engines touched the runway he realized that he had not deployed the landing gear. then he took off but as the engines were damaged he couldnt make back again . before the first touch down pilot didnt raised any emergency that his landing gears have not been deployed. inquiry result awaited but seems to be a unique incident.

On February 4, 1986, AP-AYW made belly landing at mpany's Islamabad Airport around 9:00 AM in the morning. The Boeing Boeing 747-282B was arriving as PIA flight PK-300 from Karachi with 247 passengers and 17 crew members onboard. Luckily everyone survived this accident caused by pilot error. AP-AYW was repaired with Boeing's technical assistance

The Captain forgot to lower the landing gear.

 

[Aspen]

I made a diagram of landing direction based on aerial shots of wreckage

 

[Mrc]

It does look like the case.
The 92 news video @Mrc posted says that the plane touched down at 4500 feet mark on a 9000 feet runway.
I checked A320 data and the aircraft's minimum landing distance at operational load in 4500 feet.
So the pilot already landed at minimum distance left to stop the plane.
If the speed was higher than recommended then he couldn't have stopped at the end of remaining runway and had overshot.
This seems to be the reason why he had to re-takeoff.
And if TOGA wasn't engaged then many things can immediately go wrong. Such as unstable plane at full throttle, hence engine scraping.

Question is why was pilot not aware that landing gear is not down?

Systems shud have alarmed far before touch down.

 

[kris]

Hahaha I am as white/fair as they come why would be worshipping the Europeans? Lol

Go and look around and travel a bit you moron, most airports in mega cities, you have this problem of flight paths going right above the city population.

Atleast grow some IQ and hide your foolishness imbecile...
Safety parameters are pre set in aviation... They doesn't depend on how you interpret them....

Quote me only if you have a point...

 

[JonAsad]

But TOGA not engaging is the only explanation of why the plane engines touched tarmac twice.
Toga resets the plane to takeoff mode immediately with required engine and ailerons settings.
Doing so manually may make the plane instable , hence port and then starboard engine touches the runway on landing. The full throttle and plane takes off but engines take time to rev up and place cones down for a second time and both engines scrape the runway again.
So whatever happened, TOGA doesn't seem to have engaged

What i believe as i have pointed out earlier.. first touch of the landing gear was a hard hit at the termac that bounced the plane, probably because pilot tried to aggressively compensate the height he was way above the landing height.. the decisions pilot made during the first and second hit is crucial, i have seen youtube videos where on hard landing pilots immediately retract the landing gear and go full throttle engaging TOGA during the bounce, maintaining the momentum is crucial.. The PIA plane lost momentum most probably because the pilot nose dived and then pulled up a little to suddenly decrease the altitude.. that nose up maneuver resulted in a bounce at high uneven angle losing momentum probably because one of the rear landing gear hit the ground first then the front one... That bounce required only full throttle to gain momentum.. be it even if the second bounce was on the wheels again.. TOGA was engaged alright but it required a few more seconds in the air to be effective.. the landing gear retracted and engines scraping the ground doomed the plane..

Is it pilot error or not ? .. according to control tower conversation, it confirmed pilot was on wrong altitude before landing.

That last minute adjustment to the supposedly correct altitude cost him and the others their lives..
Can't believe he proceeded to adjust the altitude at last minute instead of aborting..

 

[SQ8]

Not much, but going to TOGA on damaged engines will take a while if possible and regaining speed for a go around would take a lot of runway length.

ATC Karachi are incredibly calm, probably a normal sight to see aircraft doing touch and go's with engines.

Its the latter half of a fast, they are low energy and not operating at normal human alertness.

 

[Mrc]

Its the latter half of a fast, they are low energy and not operating at normal human alertness.

U are 'it required to fast when traveling

 

[sur]

PK8303 Altitude Data

Extremely sad event and it disturbed me down to the core as it did to many others.

I'm no expert , just posting some screenshots from this video:

Appears that it was co-pilot (1st man?) who was on the radio, not the main pilot. As we can hear pilot dictating the co-pilot @1:56

Looks like landing gear's problem ("ding ding ding" heard @0:44) was before 1st attempt to land. Despite that "ding ding ding", pilot attempted landing half way through runway (as video here says), scrapped the engines. And called out a TO/GA "going around".

Then engines can be heard speeding up @1:19.

@2:42 Looks like ATC didn't expect them to turn left,
but co-pilot informed that they're turning back due to engine loss.

From ALT graph, appears that when plane attempted 1st landing, its descent rate was ~2500 ft/min or may be even more just before making ground contact. Which should have been around ~500 ft/min.?

I may be wrong above that rate was 2500 ftm just before touch down:
It may be ~1125 ftm.
Still higher (twice as much) than 500 - 800 ft/m.


Source: this tweet.

 

[Baghial]

CAA. SHARED, OR LEAKED THE CONVERSATION ,
PILOT /TOWER
BUT WHAT ABOUT THE CCTV, CAMERA.S INSTALLED ON THE RUN WAYS, ? WHY DINT THEY LEAK THAT ALSO?

IS THE BLAME GOING TO BE ON THE DECEASED PILOTS FAULT?

YESTERDAY ON A TV PROGRAMME , THEY WERE ALL READY SAYING , THAT THE PILOT MADE , ERRORS, DID,T FOLLOW EMERGENCY PROTOCOLS, ,TOOK UN NECESSARY RISK?


WE HAVE SEEN IN SO MANY NUMEROUS REPORTS, INQUIRY,S , COMMISSIONS, THE BLAME, GOES MOSTLEY TO THE DEAD ONE,S ..... BECAUSE THEY CANT DENY, CONTRADICT, NOR DEFEND THERE POSITION,

 

[HAIDER]

The pilot of the ill-fated PIA Airbus twice tried to land at Jinnah International Airport in Karachi but couldn’t because of the stuck landing gears, said 24NewsHD TV on Saturday, citing a report prepared by the Civil Aviation Authority (CAA).


Sources say the runway inspection report mentioned that the plane’s left engine touched the runway at 4,500 feet and the right one at 5,500 feet. However, plane’s belly didn’t touch which enabled the pilot to take off again.


The Jinnah International Airport’s runway is around 10,000 feet long, said the sources, adding that there were marks of the engines on the runway between around 6,000 to 7,000 feet.

Pictures taken of the plane minutes before it crashed indicated that its Ram Air Turbine (RAT) was deployed. White puffs of smoke could also be seen coming from the engine as well as dark marks on both the engines at the undersides. Deployment of the RAT means that both the engines of the plane have been failed or failing.


Images captured by local photographer group, Pakistan’s Planespotters, appear to show both engine cowlings of the A320 having scratch marks implying contact with the ground. Also, the aircraft is pictured with its Ram Air Turbine (RAT) deployed with white smoke trailing from each engine. The RAT is a small turbine that can be manually or automatically deployed as a last resort electric source for the aircraft’s main electrical supply. It is automatically deployed should the main electrical bus bars fail to gain power from either both engine generators, which only have power if the engines are turned on, or from the Auxillary Power Unit (APU), which is normally used during ground operations or as part of a coordinated response to an emergency situation.


Meanwhile, the conversation between the pilot and the airport control tower, available with 24NewsHD TV channel, helps understanding the circumstances in which the crash happened.


Before the first landing attempt, the control tower says the speed and altitude of the plane is higher than the automatic land system. However, the captain replies that he is satisfied with his speed and altitude.


Then the control tower informs him that he could land, while the pilot says, “Yes! We are landing.”


But after a two-minute delay, the sources say, the pilot suddenly contacted the control tower again and said they were going up again and return for landing again.


At this point, the control tower told the pilot that he should reach the altitude of 30,000 feet. However, it had to inform him that the plane was coming down instead of reaching the altitude of 30,000 feet.


“Your plane has reached the altitude of 1,800 feet,” said the control tower, as the pilot replied that they would keep the plane at 2,000 feet.


But soon after that, the pilot said they had lost both the engines, to which the control tower told him that the runway was available for emergency landing.


PK8303 Crisis statement by Airbus

Airbus regrets to confirm that an A320 aircraft operated by Pakistan International Airlines was involved in an accident during flight PK8303 from Lahore to Karachi on May 22, 2020. Initial reports indicate there were 91 passengers and seven crew members on-board. Our thoughts are with all those affected.


At this stage, Airbus has no confirmed information concerning the circumstances of the accident. The aircraft, registration number AP-BLD, Manufacturer Serial Number 2274, first entered service in 2004. It has been in operation with Pakistan International Airlines since 2014. The aircraft had logged around 47,100 flight hours and 25,860 flight cycles as of today. It was powered by CFM56-5B4/P engines.


In line with ICAO annex 13, Airbus is providing full technical assistance to the Bureau d’Enquêtes et d’Analyses of France and to the Pakistani Authorities in charge of the investigation. Technical support is also being provided by Pakistan International Airlines and engine manufacturer CFM.


Further updates will be provided as soon as further consolidated information is available and Airbus is authorized to release it.

 

[Fawadqasim1]

It seems like a monumental pilot error.

The question is whether the landing gear malfunctioned and did not deploy or the pilot forgot to deploy it on the first approach we will know for sure when the flight data recorder is analysed.

 

[Baghial]

View attachment 635157




The pilot of the ill-fated PIA Airbus twice tried to land at Jinnah International Airport in Karachi but couldn’t because of the stuck landing gears, said 24NewsHD TV on Saturday, citing a report prepared by the Civil Aviation Authority (CAA).


Sources say the runway inspection report mentioned that the plane’s left engine touched the runway at 4,500 feet and the right one at 5,500 feet. However, plane’s belly didn’t touch which enabled the pilot to take off again.


The Jinnah International Airport’s runway is around 10,000 feet long, said the sources, adding that there were marks of the engines on the runway between around 6,000 to 7,000 feet.

Pictures taken of the plane minutes before it crashed indicated that its Ram Air Turbine (RAT) was deployed. White puffs of smoke could also be seen coming from the engine as well as dark marks on both the engines at the undersides. Deployment of the RAT means that both the engines of the plane have been failed or failing.


Images captured by local photographer group, Pakistan’s Planespotters, appear to show both engine cowlings of the A320 having scratch marks implying contact with the ground. Also, the aircraft is pictured with its Ram Air Turbine (RAT) deployed with white smoke trailing from each engine. The RAT is a small turbine that can be manually or automatically deployed as a last resort electric source for the aircraft’s main electrical supply. It is automatically deployed should the main electrical bus bars fail to gain power from either both engine generators, which only have power if the engines are turned on, or from the Auxillary Power Unit (APU), which is normally used during ground operations or as part of a coordinated response to an emergency situation.


Meanwhile, the conversation between the pilot and the airport control tower, available with 24NewsHD TV channel, helps understanding the circumstances in which the crash happened.


Before the first landing attempt, the control tower says the speed and altitude of the plane is higher than the automatic land system. However, the captain replies that he is satisfied with his speed and altitude.


Then the control tower informs him that he could land, while the pilot says, “Yes! We are landing.”


But after a two-minute delay, the sources say, the pilot suddenly contacted the control tower again and said they were going up again and return for landing again.


At this point, the control tower told the pilot that he should reach the altitude of 30,000 feet. However, it had to inform him that the plane was coming down instead of reaching the altitude of 30,000 feet.


“Your plane has reached the altitude of 1,800 feet,” said the control tower, as the pilot replied that they would keep the plane at 2,000 feet.


But soon after that, the pilot said they had lost both the engines, to which the control tower told him that the runway was available for emergency landing.


PK8303 Crisis statement by Airbus

Airbus regrets to confirm that an A320 aircraft operated by Pakistan International Airlines was involved in an accident during flight PK8303 from Lahore to Karachi on May 22, 2020. Initial reports indicate there were 91 passengers and seven crew members on-board. Our thoughts are with all those affected.


At this stage, Airbus has no confirmed information concerning the circumstances of the accident. The aircraft, registration number AP-BLD, Manufacturer Serial Number 2274, first entered service in 2004. It has been in operation with Pakistan International Airlines since 2014. The aircraft had logged around 47,100 flight hours and 25,860 flight cycles as of today. It was powered by CFM56-5B4/P engines.


In line with ICAO annex 13, Airbus is providing full technical assistance to the Bureau d’Enquêtes et d’Analyses of France and to the Pakistani Authorities in charge of the investigation. Technical support is also being provided by Pakistan International Airlines and engine manufacturer CFM.


Further updates will be provided as soon as further consolidated information is available and Airbus is authorized to release it.[/QUO

audio conversation between atc/pilots was released , shortly after crash!
but the enigma--------- video from the run way camera,s was with held?

why only audio of last 60/90 sec released?

yesterday experts examined the runway, and concluded , glide, scratchs from body/engine on runway.
and they are also examining the video,s of camera,s installed at the run way...

but no -word of any findings?

 

[Fawadqasim1]

Extremely sad event and it disturbed me down to the core as it did to many others.

I'm no expert , just posting some screenshots from this video:

Appears that it was co-pilot (1st man?) who was on the radio, not the main pilot. As we can hear pilot dictating the co-pilot @1:56

Looks like landing gear's problem ("ding ding ding" heard @0:44) was before 1st attempt to land. Despite that "ding ding ding", pilot attempted landing half way through runway (as video here says), scrapped the engines. And called out a TO/GA "going around".

Then engines can be heard speeding up @1:19.

@2:42 Looks like ATC didn't expect them to turn left,
but co-pilot informed that they're turning back due to engine loss.

From ALT graph, appears that when plane attempted 1st landing, its descent rate was ~2500 ft/min or may be even more just before making ground contact. Which should have been around ~500 ft/min.?


View attachment 635152


I may be wrong above that rate was 2500 ftm just before touch down:
It may be ~1125 ftm.
Still higher (twice as much) than 500 - 800 ft/m.


Source: this tweet.
View attachment 635160

The Capt did not inform the controller regarding landing gear failure on his first approach.