PHILIPPINES complain to UN about China ‘intrusions’

[bleed.blue]

THE PHILIPPINES is preparing to file another complaint with the United Nations on new Chinese "intrusions" into Philippine territory, President Benigno S. C. Aquino III said yesterday, as he committed to raising the issue with Beijing in a state visit by the third quarter.

"We are completing the data on about six to seven instances since February. We will present it to [China] and then bring these to the appropriate body, which normally is the United Nations," Mr. Aquino told reporters during his two-day official state visit to Brunei Darrusalam that ended yesterday.
While Mr. Aquino reiterated the call for "peaceful resolution" rather than provocation in the disputed territories in the South China Sea, he noted that some actions of China were not justified.
The latest of the series of Chinese intrusions, Mr. Aquino noted, occurred on the same day that he had a bilateral meeting with Chinese Defense Minister Liang Guanglie in Manila on May 23.
In this instance, Chinese vessels were reportedly unloading building materials and also placed a buoy in waters inside the West Philippine Sea.
The Department of Foreign Affairs on Wednesday had formally asked for an explanation of the incident from China’s charge d’affaires in Manila.
Earlier, the Philippines had also lodged a diplomatic protest against Beijing over a March 2 incident in Reed Bank in Western Palawan, where two Chinese patrol boats had reportedly "harassed" a local exploration vessel.
Mr. Aquino, however, maintained that it will be counterproductive for the government to engage in verbal sparring with Beijing.
"Pag nagsagutan tayo in public, nagkatigasan ng posisyon, tapos ang compromise, tataas ang conflict [If we engage in a public spat, we will firm up our positions, we’ll halt any compromise, and the conflict will escalate]," he said.
Mr. Aquino, who has been lobbying in recent months among colleagues in the Association of Southeast Asian Nations (ASEAN) to unify as a bloc on a detailed code of conduct, proposed that a central position on the South China Sea dispute among the claimant-countries within ASEAN will be the best way to deal with a superpower like China.
"We govern ourselves there, instead of one country has a bilateral agreement with China and the other has a different bilateral agreement with China. Let’s come together as a body... Why do we have to fight or increase all of these tensions when it profits nobody?" said Mr. Aquino.
Brunei, China, Malaysia, the Philippines, Taiwan and Vietnam all have a stake on the Spratly Islands in the South China Sea. Of these countries, only Brunei lacks military presence in the area.

 

[Martian2]

Philippine incursions into Chinese sovereign territory are not appreciated (see map below). Thousands of years ago, seafaring Chinese (not landlocked Filipinos, Vietnamese, or others) claimed the South China Sea islands for China. We got there first; too bad and so sad for you.

China is one of the five permanent members of the U.N. Security Council with a veto. Complaining to the U.N. is futile. China will veto the pitiful Filipino whining. If you don't like China's thousand-year-old claims to the South China Sea islands and territory, feel free to take up the issue with the PLA Navy. Good luck, you'll need it.

Map of Sovereign Chinese South China Sea Territory

 

[bleed.blue]

Philippine incursions into Chinese sovereign territory are not appreciated (see map below). Thousands of years ago, seafaring Chinese (not landlocked Filipinos, Vietnamese, or others) claimed the South China Sea islands for China. We got there first; too bad and so sad for you.

China is one of the five permanent members of the U.N. Security Council with a veto. Complaining to the U.N. is futile. China will veto the pitiful Filipino whining. If you don't like China's thousand-year-old claims to the South China Sea islands and territory, feel free to take up the issue with the PLAN. Good luck, you'll need it.

Map of Sovereign Chinese South China Sea Territory

Sure Indian Navy is in the womb let the tiger arise in 2015 MORE ( 3 Aircraft carriers,( Stealth frig/destroyers/corvetts), we will deal with the antique PLAN, IT will eat your dragon fantasy... China has a claim on Aksai Chin, South Tibet, South China sea, kyoto islands, desputes with vietnam, disputed with taiwan.... CHINA IS AN AGRESSOR ITS GOING TO BE PUT DOWN... SO what India is going to get Permanent membership in UN too so ?

Besides, if your one neighbor is a whinning female dog, who complains and raises disputes... its going to be stoned out of the neighbothood

 

[Martian2]

I am 100% certain that the PLA Navy will successfully convince the Filipinos that their attempt to steal Chinese territory lacks merit.

 

[Martian2]

Sure Indian Navy is in the womb let the tiger arise in 2015 MORE ( 3 Aircraft carriers,( Stealth frig/destroyers/corvetts), we will deal with the antique PLAN, IT will eat your dragon fantasy... China has a claim on Aksai Chin, South Tibet, South China sea, kyoto islands, desputes with vietnam, disputed with taiwan.... CHINA IS AN AGRESSOR ITS GOING TO BE PUT DOWN... SO what India is going to get Permanent membership in UN too so ?

Besides, if your one neighbor is a whinning female dog, who complains and raises disputes... its going to be stoned out of the neighbothood

Your country is weak. Your tough talk only reflects your ignorance. Your military leaders know better.

 

[Martian2]

What LOL? this 3 -4 years back before when 26/11 took place, WHEN WE DIDNT CRE ABOUT OUR DEFENCE FORCES...

India has significantly surpass China in financial investments in the modernization of the country's Navy
TSAMTO, May 27. In the next 20 years, India will invest 46.96 billion dollars in the modernization of the Navy of the country have adopted 101 new warship, including modern destroyers, amphibious ships and nuclear submarines.

ÖÀÌÒÎ / Ãëàâíîå / Èíäèÿ ñóùåñòâåííî îïåðåäèò Êèòàé ïî ôèíàíñîâûì âëîæåíèÿì â ìîäåðíèçàöèþ ÂÌÑ ñòðàíû

Hey interms of numbers you might be big, BUT soon with WESTERN assiatance and JOINT VENTURES? China will be surpassed... WE HAVE INDIAN OCEAN TO PATROL

You are ignorant and I am only willing to educate you with three more posts. Firstly, only a foolish Indian thinks 46.96 billion dollars over 20 years is a lot of money.

China's annual military budget is three times larger than Indian defense spending. Your country is a midget; even if you refuse to admit it.

China's Defense Budget to Top $91 Billion | NewsLook

"Mar 4, 2011 ... China's Defense Budget to Top $91 Billion. China's military budget is set to rise by 12.7 percent over last year, bringing the total to ..."

 

[Martian2]

Secondly, in a conventional war, China merely has to impose a blockade and India's military supplies will quickly dry up. After all, India can't even indigenously produce light carbines or howitzers. Without foreign military weaponry, the Indian military will soon be fighting with its hands.

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After all these years, India still cannot manufacture a light carbine or howitzer. India isn't going anywhere.

Murky Competitions Indian Howitzer Orders May End Soon… Or Not

"Jan 27, 2011 ... India is looking to place a $2B contract for up to 400 155mm towed howitzers. ... The tenders comprise 2 artillery gun projects (ultra-light and towed howitzers), a light strike vehicle for the army, and 2 carbine rifle ..."

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This is the key paragraph (if you don't want to read the entire lengthy article below):

"The shocking statistic is that India has a 100 per cent indigenisation rate in jungle boots, blankets and similar low-tech equipment. But in critical technologies, we import 85 per cent of our needs. And in warship-grade and aerospace-grade components, we have indigenised just 5 per cent of our requirement; 95 per cent still comes from abroad. An example is Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd’s Dhruv helicopter, designed and integrated in India, but 90 per cent foreign in physical content."

Ajai Shukla: Indigenising defence - the 70:30 fallacy

"Ajai Shukla: Indigenising defence - the 70:30 fallacy
Ajai Shukla / New Delhi May 31, 2011, 0:43 IST

Defence indigenisation has long been more a Ministry of Defence (MoD) slogan than reality. Defence Minister A K Antony pays regular lip service to reversing the 70:30 ratio: reducing the foreign component of Indian defence from 70 per cent to 30 per cent. In practice, indigenisation has been, with apologies to Greta Garbo, an illusion, wrapped in a fallacy, cloaked in deception.

The empirical reality of “indigenisation” is evident in the Indian Navy, the only service that pursues indigenisation systematically (the Indian Air Force and the Army talk the talk but oppose indigenisation in practice, demanding aircraft, tanks and guns now, not ten years down the line). The navy takes justifiable pride in building most of its warships in Indian shipyards, but a closer examination reveals that indigenisation is only skin-deep. Defence shipyards have developed the crucial skills needed for designing and constructing sophisticated warships, and for harmonising myriad sensors and weapons into an integrated battle management system. But there is little headway in indigenising the multiplicity of components and systems that are the vital innards of a battleship.

Consequently, India’s four defence shipyards – the flagship Mazagon Dock Ltd, Mumbai (MDL); Garden Reach Shipbuilders & Engineers, Kolkata (GRSE); Goa Shipyard Ltd (GSL); and the newly acquired Hindustan Shipyard Ltd, Visakhapatnam (HSL) – must necessarily look overseas for the engines, gas turbines, propulsion systems, gearboxes, generators, hydraulic systems, air-conditioning and countless other systems, which add up to the bulk of the cost of modern warships.

These are all lost opportunities for India’s private sector companies, which could be building these systems as their route into the lucrative business of defence production. Examine the figures. From the navy’s budget of Rs 21,000 crore this year (all figures rounded off), almost 60 per cent, or Rs 12,000 crore, is earmarked for capital expenditure. Of this, Rs 4,000 crore will be disbursed directly to foreign shipyards that are constructing Indian warships, while Rs 8,000 crore will be paid to Indian shipyards. On the face of it, that would appear like a healthy 66 per cent indigenisation rate, close to Mr Antony’s target.

Unfortunately, only a small share of this goes to the Indian shipbuilder. MDL retains just 25 per cent of the cost of each warship it produces, with 75 per cent being paid to foreign suppliers for the systems mentioned above. GRSE pays out 65 per cent and GSL remits 55 per cent abroad, not because they are better at indigenising but because their vessels use lower-end technology that is available in India.

The shocking statistic is that India has a 100 per cent indigenisation rate in jungle boots, blankets and similar low-tech equipment. But in critical technologies, we import 85 per cent of our needs. And in warship-grade and aerospace-grade components, we have indigenised just 5 per cent of our requirement; 95 per cent still comes from abroad. An example is Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd’s Dhruv helicopter, designed and integrated in India, but 90 per cent foreign in physical content.

This regrettable situation exists largely because the MoD, particularly its Department of Defence Production (DDP), has failed to coordinate and sponsor the development of indigenous capability. Warship builders still import even warship- grade steel, the toughened alloy that comprises the basic structure of a modern battleship. This is not because the technology is beyond us. Years ago, India’s public sector metallurgical establishments – the Defence Metallurgical Research Laboratory; Mishra Dhatu Nigam; and Steel Authority of India Ltd – developed and manufactured warship-grade steel (termed D 40S), which has been used in the navy’s reputed Shivalik class frigates. But cross-ministerial coordination is needed to produce the relatively small volumes required for warship programmes while remaining profitable for both steel makers and shipyards. Essar Steel had offered to produce warship steel, subject to some conditions. But the MoD has preferred to continue reliance on import.

In 2003 the navy addressed the lack of depth in indigenisation with a “15 Year Indigenisation Plan”, which was subsequently revised up to 2022. This forecasts the warship programme’s requirement of equipment and systems, hoping for import substitution by bringing in the private sector. A similar initiative last year, broadened to all three services, was the DRDO’s “Technology Perspective & Capability Roadmap”, which details the technologies that the military requires and urges the private sector “to offer firm commitments in partnering the MoD in developing contemporary and future technologies as well as productionalising [sic] equipment required by the Armed Forces”.

But these useful baseline documents are only a starting point for an indigenisation thrust. Private sector corporations that are interested in defence production would still require handholding and funding for their initially non-productive R&D. The funding is available – each year the MoD has been earmarking some Rs 2,000 crore for “Make” procedure projects, without a single rupee having ever been paid out – but nobody in the MoD has taken clear ownership of such an initiative.

It is time for the defence ministry to step up to the plate. They have already identified 61 critical technologies – especially materials and components that can be used across a broad range of sub-systems and systems – that India badly needs for developing higher technological capabilities. A nationally synergised effort is needed, which must also explore obtaining specific technologies through the offset route.

We have learnt how to swim at the deep end of the pool, developing the complex abilities needed to design and integrate warships, aircraft and tanks, without developing the broader research and industrial ecosystem that sustains a defence industrial base. It is time to deepen and broaden indigenisation, by developing the materials, components and sub-systems that will not only substitute defence imports, but also provide technological “trickle down” to energise the national industrial base."

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

The problem is that India hasn't finished to learn how to walk, yet it immediately starts to think how to fly.

 

[siegecrossbow]

AS FAR AS ECONOMY goes, CHINA got 20 years head start, your markets opened 1979... and 1992, it was the year i was born the reforms have been implemented...

Check out a post by Cardsharp. China was in worth shape than India economically till the late eighties.

 

[bleed.blue]

HOW THE HELL WILL China Blockade Western part of Indian ocean, where we get Oil from IRan???

IT's MORE LIKELY INDIA CAN PLACE A BLOCKADE ON CHINA...

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

HOW THE HELL WILL China Blockade Western part of Indian ocean, where we get Oil from IRan???

IT's MORE LIKELY INDIA CAN PLACE A BLOCKADE ON CHINA...

Then go ahead and come to fight China, lol.

 

[siegecrossbow]

haha Well THATS ALOT LESS THAN what PLAN is spending on ..." China, which plans to spend 23.99 billion dollars for the construction of 113 warships." WHY don't you admit it, CHINA IS BARREN LAND, and HALK the country is uninhabitable... LEaving you with less than 45% to live on and farm...

Although it is true that China has "barren" land compared with many of our neighbors we have no issue feeding our citizens. Starvation is a relic of the Maoist era. Meat prices in China are lower than vegetable prices.

 

[bleed.blue]

Check out a post by Cardsharp. China was in worth shape than India economically till the late eighties.

JUst stop, our current Prime Minister Manmohan Singh was an econmic maverick, A financial minister... he proposed and implemented the reforms in 1992, which let our markets open...

"India, by contrast, only opened up its economy after the crisis of the early nineties. But, for much of the first decade, little happened. So, the reality is that India's economic transformation only really took off around the turn of the century.This was some 20 years after China"


Chinese markets were open by 1979!

 

[Martian2]

China's "No First Use" policy on thermonuclear weapons only applies to non-nuclear states. If India sufficiently annoys China, China will bring out its thermonuclear heavy weaponry. After that, there won't be many Indians left to annoy China anymore.

Rankings of world nuclear (thermonuclear/hydrogen P-5 and atomic/fission) powers

Stunning, Frightening, Explosive and Destructive Power: Detonation of an 11-megaton Thermonuclear Bomb, March 26, 1954
Operation Castle, ROMEO Event
Bikini Atoll, Republic of the Marshall Islands

Rankings of world P-5 (i.e. Five permanent members of the U.N. Security Council) thermonuclear powers by megatons of firepower:

1. Russia - 1,273 megatons

2. United States - 570 megatons

3. China - 294 megatons (China has over half the nuclear firepower of the United States)

4. France - 55 megatons

5. Britain - 16 megatons

Humorous fact: A single Chinese DF-3A/CSS-2 IRBM or DF-4/CSS-3 ICBM with a 3.3 megaton warhead has over three times the destructive firepower in the entire Indian nuclear arsenal. In general, a thermonuclear warhead is roughly 100 times more powerful than an equivalent atomic warhead.

References:

Russia: NTI: Russia - Nuclear Disarmament
United States: NTI: United States - Nuclear Disarmament
China: NTI: China - Nuclear Disarmament
France: NTI: France - Nuclear Disarmament
Britain: NTI: United Kingdom - Nuclear Disarmament

----------

Rankings of atomic/fission bomb powers:

6. Israel: 1500-4000 kt (or 1.5 to 4 megatons)

7. India: 800 Kt ~ 1000 Kt. (or 0.8 to 1 megaton)

8. Pakistan: 600 kt - 1000 kt (or 0.6 to 1 megaton)

[note: 1,000 kilotons equal only 1 megaton]

References:

Israel: NTI: Israel - Nuclear Disarmament
India: NTI: India - Nuclear Disarmament
Pakistan: NTI: Pakistan - Nuclear Disarmament

----------

1967: THE FIRST CHINESE HYDROGEN BOMB exploded with 3.3 megatons of destructive power

No thread on China's nuclear weapons would be complete without the history-setting first thermonuclear explosion.

"On June 17 1967, China revealed its true military power.

At 00:19, a Chinese H-6 bomber dropped the first Chinese hydrogen bomb. It exploded with a force of 3.3 megatons. It marked the date when China entered the thermonuclear era."

 

[siegecrossbow]

JUst stop, our current Prime Minister Manmohan Singh was an econmic maverick, A financial minister... he proposed and implemented the reforms in 1992, which let our markets open...

"India, by contrast, only opened up its economy after the crisis of the early nineties. But, for much of the first decade, little happened. So, the reality is that India's economic transformation only really took off around the turn of the century.This was some 20 years after China"


Chinese markets were open by 1979!

Which is why the average income between the two countries became wider and wider ever since?

---------- Post added at 01:43 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:42 AM ----------

China's "No First Use" policy on thermonuclear weapons only applies to non-nuclear states. If India sufficiently annoys China, China will bring out its thermonuclear heavy weaponry. After that, there won't be many Indians left to annoy China anymore.

Rankings of world nuclear (thermonuclear/hydrogen P-5 and atomic/fission) powers

Stunning, Frightening, Explosive and Destructive Power: Detonation of an 11-megaton Thermonuclear Bomb, March 26, 1954
Operation Castle, ROMEO Event
Bikini Atoll, Republic of the Marshall Islands

Rankings of world P-5 (i.e. Five permanent members of the U.N. Security Council) thermonuclear powers by megatons of firepower:

1. Russia - 1,273 megatons

2. United States - 570 megatons

3. China - 294 megatons (China has over half the nuclear firepower of the United States)

4. France - 55 megatons

5. Britain - 16 megatons

Humorous fact: A single Chinese DF-3A/CSS-2 IRBM or DF-4/CSS-3 ICBM with a 3.3 megaton warhead has over three times the destructive firepower in the entire Indian nuclear arsenal. In general, a thermonuclear warhead is roughly 100 times more powerful than an equivalent atomic warhead.

References:

Russia: NTI: Russia - Nuclear Disarmament
United States: NTI: United States - Nuclear Disarmament
China: NTI: China - Nuclear Disarmament
France: NTI: France - Nuclear Disarmament
Britain: NTI: United Kingdom - Nuclear Disarmament

----------

Rankings of atomic/fission bomb powers:

6. Israel: 1500-4000 kt (or 1.5 to 4 megatons)

7. India: 800 Kt ~ 1000 Kt. (or 0.8 to 1 megaton)

8. Pakistan: 600 kt - 1000 kt (or 0.6 to 1 megaton)

[note: 1,000 kilotons equal only 1 megaton]

References:

Israel: NTI: Israel - Nuclear Disarmament
India: NTI: India - Nuclear Disarmament
Pakistan: NTI: Pakistan - Nuclear Disarmament

----------

1967: THE FIRST CHINESE HYDROGEN BOMB exploded with 3.3 megatons of destructive power

No thread on China's nuclear weapons would be complete without the history-setting first thermonuclear explosion.

"On June 17 1967, China revealed its true military power.

At 00:19, a Chinese H-6 bomber dropped the first Chinese hydrogen bomb. It exploded with a force of 3.3 megatons. It marked the date when China entered the thermonuclear era."

Come on man no need to descend to this level...