Philippines 48 Fighter Jets, 6 Submarines, Anti-ship cruise missiles: CNAS

[Reashot Xigwin]

DND : 6 More Countries Offer to Sell Warships to Philippines
07 Januari 2013

Aside from Italy with Maestrale frigates, six countries that are offering their frigates are South Korea, Spain, United States, Israel, Croatia, and Australia. (photo : Aus DoD)

MANILA - At least six foreign countries are offering frigates to the Philippines after the Department of National Defense (DND) expressed interest in purchasing at least two more warships to boost territorial defense amid the dispute at West Philippine Sea.

Fernando Manalo, Defense Undersecretary for finance, munitions, installations and materiel, disclosed that aside from Italy, countries that are offering their frigates are South Korea, Spain, United States, Israel, Croatia, and Australia.

Manalo said that earlier, the Philippines is only eyeing the refurbished Maestrale-class frigates from the Italian navy worth over P11 billion, but more countries have made their offers in the latter part of 2012.

“Other countries are now just being convinced that the Armed Forces of the Philippines (AFP) is serious in its efforts to make itself stronger and more credible,” Manalo said.

Manalo further disclosed that some of the countries were offering brand new frigates. He added that the DND is still in the process of conducting studies to determine which type of frigate will be best for the country.

He said the department hopes to come up with a decision by the end of January. “Within this month something must happen,” Manalo said.

“Due diligence is being exercised here because we are talking of billions of pesos,” he added.

Meanwhile, the AFP’s Western Command has not monitored any Chinese vessels on disputed territories at West Philippine Sea.

Air reconnaissance conducted Thursday showed no signs of Chinese warships, said Lieutenant General Juancho Sabban, Western Command commander.

“As per information from my commanders, we conducted aerial recon (Thursday), we didn’t see any of the new vessels that China said they will deploy to West Philippine Sea, and I understand also that from reports (that) China already retracted its statement that they will board and search all vessels passing through West Philippine Sea. I think this is a good development,” Sabban said.

(Interaksyon)

 

[Zero_wing]

Set aside all the talks on F-5 first. You do not understand the situation in Philippine at all, seems to me you do not realise how or why the US got totally, i mean TOTALLY kicked out of Philippine in 1992?? You may know a lot of stuff about F-5, but you MOST definitely have no sense at all with US-Philippine relation

Not that we don't want to help Philippine PER SE, nor not that the president Aquino don't want. But Times and place just put in a wrong time. The problem with Philippine Armed Force started with it formation in 1947, when they allow us to station the biggest Naval base in the world in Philippine and a sizeable Air Force.

During Vietnam war, Clark AFB was used "Substancially" by US to support the Vietnam war, and so does the Subic Bay NS was invilved sustancially for USN for Vietnam. Basically during the stretch of 1960-1980. Even without a functioning Air Force and Navy, Philippine is the safeest place on earth..

We sold the F-5A to Philippine back when they are in peak service in 1966. At that time, the F-5 A were even still used by the USAF. After that we do not sell anything to Philippine anymore until today. YOu need to realise one thing, Philippine was our Biggest Oversea force in any proportion in any scale. We have the whole fleet based in Subic Bay (That's 2 aircraft carrier) and 2 Fighter and 1 Bomber Wing in Clark AFB. And philippine, a small Nation with not high Nominal GDP, of course they are going to lag behind in their own defence.

Things changed rapidly in 1990 when the Volcano what-its-name erupted in philippine and US Forces are force tp withdrew as far back to US West Coast , at that point. Heavily Damaged Clark AFB and a almost total wiped out Subic Bay NS were closed for the first time. Talk have beens negotiate as US want Philippine to clean up and restore the base into operation (Also pay for it) and this is the first time the Philippine say no. What follow is limited used of Clark and Subic Bay and eventually in 1991, Philippine senate decided to Not continue the least of both base as well as all military structure to the US.

By end of 1992, all the US military unit (Combat or logistic) was completely withdrew from Philippine. And now philippine enter one ear which they have to start fending for themselve. What the senate do not realise is they do not have enough money for it. It was almost 30 years since they first buy stuff from oversea.

By 1995, Philippine issue a Moderization program. Which involve US selling 18 F-16A/B Fighter aircraft to Philippine, US senate passed it, and Philippine signed it. But things got to a bad turn in 1997 when global financial collaspe and Philippine do not have money to pay for the contract. And hence the contract were left in void.

Over the year. Philippine are always looking for Military Hardware. The thing is, what Philippine want is very hard to satisify as they want an entry grade fighter/trainer which can equally serve both role but similiar to their F-5. Which we got none of them in the US. in 2012, PAF ultimately purchased (I don't know if it's pay for tho) 12 TA-50 Golden eagle over F-16 purchase because of the training role and also because they are more rapidly available and is a entry grade trainer/fighter.

Philippine still wanted F-16, but currently, they cannot afford it now and the F-16 is not readily available (As they wanted USAF ex, we can't just retire our airframe and transfer it to them beucase they wanted it...........) and hence the TA-50 is a stop gap.

Also 12 TA-50 only worth less than 600 millions. Which is chum change for their defence budget for acquiring F-16 ultimately.

Philippines Orders South Korean TA-50 Jets | Defense Update - Military Technology & Defense News
Philippines Looking to Buy Non-USA Combat Aircraft | Defense Update - Military Technology & Defense News
The Exciting Centennial of Philippine Aviation: PAF seeks 12 F-16 fighter jets from US

Now let's move to your territories.

F-5, no doubt is a capable fighter, but as i said, you cannot get even new parts for F-5 as the COmpany that make it does not exist anymore (Northrop makes F-5 not Northrop Grumman) The problem with F-5 is, either you can make your own spare, like Iran, or you cannabilize other F-5 to make your other F-5 effective. This is the exact reason why Philippine do not continue with the operation of F-5.

Philippine, is a small country but they are not as cheap as you think. Unlike african country. But to a point upgrading a standard F-5E is plain stupid. THe latest upgrade of F-5 is done by Singapore in 2001 which is to Upgrade to F-5T status (Taiwan last upgrade is mid 1990s to RF-5E, Thai also upgraded to F-5T, Brazil start upgrading thiers in 2000)

Why would Philippine pay 6 millions a pop to upgrade their own Inventory F-5 if they can get 4th Generation TA-50/FA-50 for just another 15 millions a pop.

Also you cannot work up to F-16 (Which is considered the ultimate goal even after the purchase of TA/FA-50 from Korea) from F-5 Straight up, you will need a stop-gap anyway. As you said it. So why bother spend 6 millions each to upgrade each F-5 when you can spend the similar amount of money to get 3 squad of entry 4th generation fighter?? Can you answer me that??

By the way, F-20 tiger Shark is not as "Privately funded" as you think, yes, Northrop funded the whole program but they are part of FX competition that looks at exporting cheapper version of F-16. Which eventually the whole FX program were killed by the F-16 and combined this, and the ATF program, Northrop gone busted.

Miami Herald: Search Results

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You should see, China push Philippine back to us, we should thank them, now they are ready to let US to re-occupy Subic Bay and Clark field. You know what US will give the Philippine in return if US choose to re-occupy it?? It will be brand spanking new F-16 Fighter Aircraft.

You will see when US congress again in session in Jan 2013. If we do reoccupy the Subic Bay and Clark Field, chances are we will gift the New F-16 to Philippine for no or virtually no Cost at all. Kind of the same deal Pakistan get from the Afghanistan deal back in 1983.

This very good sir, Very nice analysis you make a good reporter or political scientist with this but one thing the 1987 constitution (the current one) Does not allow foreign military bases in the country but there is one thing the US can use the Visiting force agreement US can visit the Philippines for a while and leave and let other group of force stay here to replace them simply put it they can Upgrade which are already in the process of doing i just got to see one of our navy bases and they expanding stuff there to accommodated our new warships because they are too big and making more bases so ya the US can help there too but like i said they can't have US run base they have to share with the Philippine Military well i think we would be getting more money and assistance from US giving them a place in the Philippines true not like Subic and Clark (but there are plans to use half of the old bases for a Joint US-Philippine Military base).

 

[jhungary]

This very good sir, Very nice analysis you make a good reporter or political scientist with this but one thing the 1987 constitution (the current one) Does not allow foreign military bases in the country but there is one thing the US can use the Visiting force agreement US can visit the Philippines for a while and leave and let other group of force stay here to replace them simply put it they can Upgrade which are already in the process of doing i just got to see one of our navy bases and they expanding stuff there to accommodated our new warships because they are too big and making more bases so ya the US can help there too but like i said they can't have US run base they have to share with the Philippine Military well i think we would be getting more money and assistance from US giving them a place in the Philippines true not like Subic and Clark (but there are plans to use half of the old bases for a Joint US-Philippine Military base).

Thank you for your reply.

What i mean was Philippine may want to rent out part of Subic and/or Clark field to the US (Which actually are in talk with the US at this very moment) Of course the degree will not be pre-1990 size, most probably like a joint US-Philippine adventure where only hardware and software occupation but no permanent rotation. Meaning they may allow a temporary rotation of US Force in subic base and clark as in the capacity that US using Australian FAcilities in Asutralia, but not like US Installation in Japan or like in Philippine before.

This is what i meant.

 

[auspice]

Well this two warships when delivered will give a stronger bite for the naval wing of the Armed Forces of the Philippines. A complete refit with new additional high tech weaponry will certainly provide a lethal deterrent for those so called Chinese “camouflaged surveillance ships” that scrambles all over the West Philippines Sea (South China Sea). By the next decade we should have 20-30 “war-ships” strategically housed throughout the Philippines.

We did not ask for this situation to emerge, but Beijing did us a favor. They helped us to see the real enemy for today and the future of our country.

 

[INDIAISM]

I think if philippines is realy serious about its forces then the First thing it should do is to increase the defence spending to atleast 2-2.3%
of its GDP.....Which will mean that you will have defence budget of around 5 Billion Dollars....

Secondly join hands with Vietnam,Japan and other countries who are fighting against China....

Thirdly,Philippines should invest in Midget submarine.....

Forthly,Philippines should go for atleast 200 4th,4.5th or 5th Gen jets....Not to forget SAM network also....


Till then the best thing they can do is to add atleast 700 surface to surface missiles in its inventory......

 

[Zero_wing]

Thank you for your reply.

What i mean was Philippine may want to rent out part of Subic and/or Clark field to the US (Which actually are in talk with the US at this very moment) Of course the degree will not be pre-1990 size, most probably like a joint US-Philippine adventure where only hardware and software occupation but no permanent rotation. Meaning they may allow a temporary rotation of US Force in subic base and clark as in the capacity that US using Australian FAcilities in Asutralia, but not like US Installation in Japan or like in Philippine before.

This is what i meant.

Ok i stand corrected thank for that again good analysis.

 

[Soryu]

Well it can't be a Virginia class boat that is similar in appearance on the pic. Maybe from Japan they can buy some. Australia is also interested in them.

Japanese submarine is high-cost, not good for Philippines.

Great to hear that our neighbor is finally making good decision to arm themselves with better equipment. But this crossed my mind, U.S donated more than 30 F16s with upgrade packages to Indonesia and not to her closest ally in S.E.A, and from what I heard, Phil have been making 2 attempts to get the same offer that Indonesia got. So far, neither of those attempts succeeded, free 48 jets seems too high to be expected. Let's say Phil Armed force finally decided to buy new jets, 4 squads of brand new pure fighter jets (not LIFT) could cost Phil USD 3 - 4 billions more or less, ground support facilities and training (because PAF pilots have no experiences with 4th gen jets) would make the price even higher. Arming an ex-coast guard boat plus 2 maestrale frigates and buying new corvettes could cost Phil more than USD 1 Billion, 2 if Phil really want to add P100 yakhont, Brahmos, or any heavy AShM. Acquiring brand new six submarines could cost Phil more than USD 2 billions (assuming that Indo can get 3 subs with USD 1.1 bil). The rough estimation of costs for this ambitious plan is around USD 7 - 9 billions, and according to the news, Mr. Acquino will provide USD 1 billion for six years term. Counting down from 2020 to 2013, Phil only have 7 years, Phil can't accomplish that plan with lesser money allocation than it's needed. Judging from that, wouldn't it seems to be unrealistic? CMIIW

Good analysis, but I don't think those 2 maestrale frigates and buying new corvettes could cost Phil more than USD 1 Billion.

So What is India doing South China sea? Are they going to save the Philippines and ally US? It can be a great strategic change in this region. Not to mention, Putin will find it really annoying and will support China. Whom is Pakistan supporting? Will Pakistan choose India or China?

why Putin will find it really annoying and will support China!?

No where in the Article is it mentioned who is going to pay Philippines Armed Force as much as $6B for such a large scale Purchase.

At best it is a dream, it would take Ages for Philippines to train pilots-engineers-technicians considering there is a complete absence-shortage of such Crew. The most weird thing is with out Air Defense how is Air Force going to operate.

Jhungray, Arms Procurement is not as easy as you stated by you it take Years, it takes money, expertise, requirements...Philippines cannot pay $6B or more in next 20+ Years.

The country has so much poverty that needs immediate attention instead of animosity with a big neighbor, the best course of action should be to make peace with China and invite them to invest in Philippines lots of local jobs would be created.

That is wise advice but it's just for you, Pakistani.

It is not easy to jump from 2nd generation to 4+ generation the conversion takes time complete support and training team however this is part of a long term investment but the issue is IF and why Philippines Air Force retired all F-5s then the question is how do you compare their budget to Pakistan Air Force sounds ridiculous.

There are Air Forces still operating upgraded F-5s then why did Philippines Air Force not go the path of F-5 upgrades [reports suggest most F-5 were never upgraded and were abandoned].

If US were serious, They would have helped developed Philippines a good Air Force/Navy but that is not the case, you have been with a wrong ally it is time people let their ego go lands that are not in the hands of Philippines, the country should let it go and come to peace there is no other option not even US will help you achieve those goals non ever will.

LOL, so if India had nuke, and you are not, Will you given up your territory!?

I think if philippines is realy serious about its forces then the First thing it should do is to increase the defence spending to atleast 2-2.3%
of its GDP.....Which will mean that you will have defence budget of around 5 Billion Dollars....

Secondly join hands with Vietnam,Japan and other countries who are fighting against China....

Thirdly,Philippines should invest in Midget submarine.....

Forthly,Philippines should go for atleast 200 4th,4.5th or 5th Gen jets....Not to forget SAM network also....


Till then the best thing they can do is to add atleast 700 surface to surface missiles in its inventory......

Those stuff just are dreams. It need a huge money and very long time to get.

 

[INDIAISM]

Japanese submarine is high-cost, not good for Philippines.

Good analysis, but I don't think those 2 maestrale frigates and buying new corvettes could cost Phil more than USD 1 Billion.

why Putin will find it really annoying and will support China!?

That is wise advice but it's just for you, Pakistani.

LOL, so if India had nuke, and you are not, Will you given up your territory!?

Those stuff just are dreams. It need a huge money and very long time to get.

Money is not a problem for them if Pakistan with similar economy with 3% GDP Growth rate can get them even after feeding their 5.5 lakh soilders then why can't Philippines which GDP growth rate of 7%...

The only thing they are lacking is the ''Will to Stand Up For Their Right'' and that's what you can't buy with money....

 

[nufix]

Money is not a problem for them if Pakistan with similar economy with 3% GDP Growth rate can get them even after feeding their 5.5 lakh soilders then why can't Philippines which GDP growth rate of 7%...

The only thing they are lacking is the ''Will to Stand Up For Their Right'' and that's what you can't buy with money....

I think GDP growth will not make an immediate effect to the spending power, more so Philippines 7% of growth isn't like since 10 years ago. AFAIK Pakistan receives a huge amount of armaments and military aid from the U.S as compensation for not becoming a home for Taliban and Al-Qaeda (total 11.740 billion USD started from 2002 until 2011), and the U.S is also letting Pakistan to do "whatever" they like as long as it doesn't cross the U.S's interest in there. The opposite thing is happening to Philippines, which is the one and only U.S ally in South East Asia, after U.S moved out from their bases in Philippines, the U.S isn't doing the same thing she usually does to her allies (in this case is direct military aid). Instead of getting any sophisticated weaponry, she got a "almost naked" coast guard patrol ship.

 

[auspice]

I think GDP growth will not make an immediate effect to the spending power, more so Philippines 7% of growth isn't like since 10 years ago. AFAIK Pakistan receives a huge amount of armaments and military aid from the U.S as compensation for not becoming a home for Taliban and Al-Qaeda (total 11.740 billion USD started from 2002 until 2011), and the U.S is also letting Pakistan to do "whatever" they like as long as it doesn't cross the U.S's interest in there. The opposite thing is happening to Philippines, which is the one and only U.S ally in South East Asia, after U.S moved out from their bases in Philippines, the U.S isn't doing the same thing she usually does to her allies (in this case is direct military aid). Instead of getting any sophisticated weaponry, she got a "almost naked" coast guard patrol ship.

It's good to see that the US is assisting the Philippines, its oldest and most loyal ally in ASEAN, in some modest degree and improving our defensive capabilities. But I also think it would have been better to make our alliances with Russia, India, France, Germany, South Korea and Japan in terms of weapons procurement.

It’s time for us to realize that we cannot rely on US Excess military aid, that acquiring old hardware actually cost more money on maintenance alone than acquiring brand new weapons. The US Excess Defense Article (EDA) program is actually undermining the Armed Forces of the Philippines Modernization Program.

President Aquino is right in sourcing defense materials from other countries because the truth of the matter is, it will always be about the money. This is a wake-up call to our Patriotic leaders.

 

[Reashot Xigwin]

Philippine Coast Guard to receive 10 patrol boats from Japan
By Tina G. Santos
Philippine Daily Inquirer
4:41 pm | Saturday, January 12th, 2013

MANILA, Philippines–The Philippine Coast Guard is set to hire some 300 new personnel to man 10 new patrol boats expected to arrive from Japan.

PCG spokesman Commander Armand Balilo said they would prioritize applicants who would fit the qualifications of those who will man the new acquisitions.

“We need to recruit people with maritime-related courses such as marine engineers and marine navigation course. But we would also be needing technical experts such as those who have mechanical, welding and electrical skills or background,” said Balilo.

Foreign Affairs Secretary Albert Del Rosario discussed with Japanese Foreign Minister Fumio Kishida, during the latter’s visit early this week, a loan agreement for the Philippines’ procurement of 10 multi-role response vessels for the Coast Guard.

The new patrol vessels, which are expected to arrive in 2014, are expected to boost the country’s territorial defense in the West Philippine Sea.

PCG usually accepts applicants who finished even non-maritime-related courses.

“But we should now prepare for our new assets. We should prepare the right people or the crew and asset management team who would be in charge of our new vessels’ maintenance,” Balilo explained.

He added that they have one year to hire the needed personnel, who would be assigned for deck operation, navigation, gunnery and engineering.

Those who would be selected would undergo one-year training on board the new ships.

Philippine Coast Guard to receive 10 patrol boats from Japan | Inquirer Global Nation


Philippines seeks patrol ships, communications equipment from Japan amid disputes with China

By Jim Gomez, The Associated Press January 10, 2013


Philippines seeks patrol ships, communications equipment from Japan amid disputes with China

Philippine Foreign Affairs Secretary Albert del Rosario, left, gestures as he talks with his Japanese counterpart Fumio Kishida at the Department of Foreign Affairs in suburban Pasay, south of Manila, Philippines on Thursday Jan. 10, 2013. Kishida met with del Rosario to discuss bilateral relations as well as regional issues and the foreign policy priorities of the new Japanese leadership. (AP Photo/Aaron Favila)

MANILA, Philippines - The Philippines sought patrol ships and communications equipment from Japan to better secure its territory in meetings Thursday of their top diplomats, who expressed alarm over their countries' territorial conflicts with China.

Philippine Foreign Secretary Albert del Rosario said Japan will consider giving 10 patrol vessels and a communications system to Manila's coast guard. He said he and Japanese Foreign Minister Fumio Kishida also discussed ways to bolster trade, investment, tourism and maritime security co-operation.

Japan has wrangled with China over uninhabited islands in the East China Sea called Senkaku in Japanese and Diaoyu in Chinese. Japan controls the territory, which is also claimed by China and Taiwan.

Tensions over the tiny islands intensified after Tokyo bought them from their Japanese private owners in September, prompting Chinese protesters to hold demonstrations and boycott Japanese products.

In addition to a long-unresolved dispute over the Spratly Islands in the South China Sea, China and the Philippines figured in a tense standoff last year over Scarborough Shoal, a rich fishing ground, which sparked a heated exchange of words and strained relations.

Many have expressed fears that Asia's territorial disputes could spark the region's next armed conflict.

Del Rosario said he and Kishida expressed "mutual concern" over the disputes and aggressive steps by China to assert its territorial claims. The two sides discussed the possibility of learning from each other's strategies for dealing with the conflicts peacefully based on international law, he said.

"I think we all understand that the assertions being made by China in terms of their nine-dash line claim, for example ... pose threats to the stability of the region," del Rosario said, referring to an official Chinese map with broken lines that depict Beijing's claim of virtually the entire South China Sea.

"We also need to be able to address the possibility that the freedom of navigation would be adversely impacted," del Rosario told a news conference after meeting with Kishida.

Kishida's spokeswoman, Naoko Saiki, said Japan was "very much interested and concerned" with recent developments in the South China Sea, including China's recent actions in the region. "I think the rule of law has to be maintained and enhanced," she said in an interview.

Newly elected Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe's government, Saiki said, "is determined to act very pro-actively as a responsible member of the international community to maintain and strengthen the peace and stability in the Asia-Pacific region."

Philippine President Benigno Aquino III, whom Kishida also met, thinks a "stronger Japan, acting as a counterbalance in the region, would help promote stability," del Rosario said.

The Philippine request for coast guard "multi-role response vessels" and a communications system needs to be endorsed by Japan's Foreign Ministry before approval by the Japanese government. Once approved, the first patrol vessels could be delivered as early as this year, del Rosario said.

The Philippines has one of Asia's weakest militaries. It has turned to the United States, a defence treaty-ally, and other countries to modernize its navy, air force and coast guard and better secure its extensive coastlines and territorial waters, including potentially oil- and gas-rich areas in and near the South China Sea.

Although it has vowed to pursue its territorial claims peacefully, the Philippine government has said it needs to develop a minimum defence capability to discourage poaching and intrusions by foreign vessels.

Philippines seeks patrol ships, communications equipment from Japan amid disputes with China

 

[Fsjal]

Well this just a rumor but i think its an french or Japanese for the subs for others for planes its both or either south korean or Italian ( we been buying a lot for Italy from Army weapons weapons and Naval ship contracts are already sign and we have two anti sub frigates bought from Italy and a possible anti sub corvettes no news yet on those corvettes) And other Gregorio del Pilar class (former Hamilton-class cutters) the BRP Ramon Alcaraz (that will be equip with new equipments and weapons contracts are now sign and will be carried out by next year)but for the cruise missiles i think its an antiship missile sir maybe an American Harpoon missile but i think if we are getting one i would be an Indian or Israeli model Anyhow we are waiting for official announcement at the AFP(Armed forces of the Philippines) Anniversary Dec 22 so we can have an idea.

We do not have much money to buy all of this.

 

[Fsjal]

Oh screw you chinaman we do have the money the Philippines have alot of things to do not everything is given to national defense but its all being change thanks to china's harassment

Dude calm down. I'm Filipino, not a false flagger. Our economy is much smaller. Also military spending of ours is smaller as well.

 

[Kiss_of_the_Dragon]

Dude calm down. I'm Filipino, not a false flagger. Our economy is much smaller. Also military spending of ours is smaller as well.

It's pity that filipino that "friendler" to China is labeled as false flagger, here some good reading...just a passage from the thread I created

The Government of the Philippines, a former US colony, is at the fore-front of harsh criticism directed at China.

I went to talk to Philippine academia, to top scholars in Manila, and I managed to speak to several of them.

Opinions were generally similar, summarized by Roland G. Simbulan, Senior Fellow and Professor in Development Studies and Public Management at the University of the Philippines, explained:

“Frankly speaking, those Spratly Islands are not so significant to us. What’s happening is that our political elites are clearly encouraged by the US to provoke China, and there is also a big influence of the US military on our armed forces. I would say that the Philippine military is very vulnerable to such type of ‘encouragement’. So the US is constantly nurturing those confrontational attitudes. But to continue with this type of approach could be disastrous to our country. Essentially we are very close to China, geographically and otherwise.”


Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/china-far-east/228366-irrational-racist-fear-china.html#ixzz2HuOJ0xDT

 

[Soryu]

Dude calm down. I'm Filipino, not a false flagger. Our economy is much smaller. Also military spending of ours is smaller as well.

We saw your true colors, no need to hide, no need to feel embarrassing, many chinese guys act like you.