Petition seeks removal of ISI chief: Dawn

[jeypore]

At last the communist are stepping in..........
That will fix everything!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
God speed............

The next great China (Pakistan)..

 

[RazPaK]

At last the communist are stepping in..........
That will fix everything!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
God speed............

The next great China (Pakistan)..

After the Maoists take over India, I'm sure Pakistan will follow suit.

 

[r0ck]

People, try to understand that ARMY has RULED Pakistan as well. They did not do wonders rather they also supported corrupt politicians and were involved in corruption. It is HARD to prove their corruption since they have an intelligence agency at their back which is also involved in moral corruption, playing with the PEOPLE of Pakistani by creating political parties like IJI.

This is the right time for Pakistan Army to be accountable in front of the law and the people.

---------- Post added at 08:15 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:14 PM ----------

"r0ck "

"Shuja Pasha HAS to resign. He should try to understand that he is not a sacred cow in God's eye. He is equal to Zardari and Bush!
Original Post By saad445566
......

Moving on."

You want to see what mother nature can do? Okay, I will show you now!

Wait for few days.

I think you're overly generalising here and getting carried away with your feelings based on bygone eras.

Firstly, sticking to the point, the petitioner has asked that the ISI chief resigns based on a mere rumor, which unlike the 'memo' has no transcript and also has no confirmation on it's authenticity by anyone as of yet. Also as you've pointed out in post # 12 apparently the person that gave it i.e. Mansoor Ijaz has also clarified that the content was not literally saying that Zardari be sacked and it was more to do with laying the blame. Even if that is so, then again there is no transcript of the same and no confirmation of the authenticity.

So based on this above sole rumor, does the ISI chief resign? I think a lot of people can see where this is going. An avid googler can find exactly same types of rumors in their hudreds which the OPs would say that they've apparently heard or even felt. One can also argue that even entertaining such types of petitions, the courts are inviting a quagmire of equally lacklustre petitions, which would certainly not only be limited to the ISI chief. Nevertheless, I believe the courts are free and should be free to investigate any issue they deem fit and proper.

Also I think the memogate is different to this case and these two should not be interwined. The former involved a transcript (an official transcript if you will, since it was apparently from the Pakistan Ambassador), a history of messages corroborating the events and a confirmation by a senior personnel in the American ranks. All of which are non-existant in latter case. But I guess the courts would be the better judge anyways.

Secondly, the reason I ignored the first part of your post was because it wasn't worth replying in the first place and didn't make comprehensible sense in the second place. Equal in God's eyes to Zardari and Bush? Honestly, I don't even know where to begin. As a matter of Islamic principle, all are equal in God's eyes. Some are closer due to their good deeds. That's that. How do you know he's equal in God's eyes compared to Zardari and Bush?

It's one of those things that are not meant for us to decide bruv! As a matter of another Islamic principle, life, health and death remains at Allah (S.W.T's) will. Don't really know 'what mother nature can do' or what it is you want to show me (no pun intended).

 

[TechMan]

 

[Pioneerfirst]

the corrupt Govt can never control the Army in Pakistan.The Govt has given extension to Kiyani and Pasha as bribe and both of them have accepted it happily.Its immoral.
Not only Pasha but Kiyani should also be fired as we have no shortage of better people in our military for these elite posts.

 

[Awesome]

The CPP seems to be an India run outfit and the court should not entertain this petition till it gets the backing of a more cleaner petitioner.

From wikipedia:

The Communist Party of Pakistan (Urdu: کمیونسٹ پارٹی آف پاکستا&#1606 is a communist party in Pakistan.

The CPP was founded in Calcutta, Union of India on March 6, 1948. A decision was taken at the Second All India Conference of the Communist Party of India, which was held in Calcutta at that time, that a separate communist party ought to be created in the new state of Pakistan. It was thought that Pakistan, being a relatively small country (in comparison to India) and suffering from instability, was ripe for revolution. The delegates from Pakistan separated themselves and held a separate session were they constituted the CPP. Sajjad Zaheer (founder of the All India Progressive Writers Association), from West Pakistan, was elected General Secretary. The delegates from East Pakistan elected an East Pakistan Provincial Committee. Many Muslim leaders of the CPI were sent to Pakistan to help with the formation of the party.

The attempt to start a revolution in Pakistan failed and the CPP leaders were jailed. In the 1951 Rawalpindi Conspiracy Case, many leading members were convicted and the party was forcibly repressed by successive governments.[1]

Diplomatic intervention by Nehru led to the most prominent CPP leaders being freed and sent back to India. At this stage the CPP was in poor shape in West Pakistan, while in East Pakistan the party had a limited foundation. However, it was difficult to have a unified underground political organization spanning such a vast geographical territory and the East Pakistan branch was able to operate with autonomy.

In the provincial elections in East Pakistan in 1954, the CPP supported the United Front launched by the Awami League, Krishak Sramik Party and the Nizam-e-Islam Party. Four out of ten CPP candidates were elected, and 23 CPP members were elected as candidates of other parties. In total, the front won 223 seats out of 310.

 

[Awesome]

the corrupt Govt can never control the Army in Pakistan.The Govt has given extension to Kiyani and Pasha as bribe and both of them have accepted it happily.Its immoral.
Not only Pasha but Kiyani should also be fired as we have no shortage of better people in our military for these elite posts.

Nobody ever said anything, nor was it theorized that Kayani and Pasha got extensions as a bribe. Previous governments have also worked under pressure of Army the army chiefs came and went as per their tenures. Everyone said that for the continuation of the anti-terrorism policies these guys need an extension. Now when these two guys are raising issues of treachery people are questioning it as some sort of ihsaan faramoshi as if a little bit of ghadaari should be excused.

 

[Pioneerfirst]

Nobody ever said anything, nor was it theorized that Kayani and Pasha got extensions as a bribe. Previous governments have also worked under pressure of Army the army chiefs came and went as per their tenures. Everyone said that for the continuation of the anti-terrorism policies these guys need an extension. Now when these two guys are raising issues of treachery people are questioning it as some sort of ihsaan faramoshi as if a little bit of ghadaari should be excused.

Dont the American's need Policy continuation in WOT.?Are we doing more than Americans in WOT?

Always Armies fight wars and policy is given by military establishment not the Chief.

I am not supporting Zardari or the rest of people in Govt.If Political Govt is wrong then Army is too committing false deeds.

 

[Mabs]

Mansoor Ijaz himself clarified in an interview with Sana Buchha in her program 'Lakin' that he never said that Gen. Pasha sought the Arab leaders' permission for a coup. What Ijaz said was that his intelligence sources told him that Gen.Pasha was touring the GCC countries, ( He doesn't even know which ones) and that something must be brewing. Ijaz said that I can not confirm the nature or purpose of the visits because I don't have that information.

Look up Sana Buchha's program for verification.

 

[khail007]

Pakistan's main problem is that the generals are 'UNTOUCHABLES'. Our army is also as corrupt as our civilians, but do it in a bit organized manner, if someone has slightest doubt about this he should have his psychiatric check-up and also refer to Hamood-ur-Rehman Commission Report. Those who disgraced Pakistan in 1971/Siachin/Kargil are enjoying; some are dead but enjoyed full ceremonial services with military salutes.

On the other hand we are hanging/toppling/disgracing our civilian leaderships. We know that they are corrupt to various levels none of them was/is an angel so is the case with army. Even we all as human beings practice this to some extent at our family levels or day to day dealing with other human beings. Just lend some money to other person and ask him to return it after sometime.

In short these are double standards and will not prevail. Everyone to be bring to justice even if it is Zardari/Kiyani/Shuja. If Zardari knows that the drone attacks are allowed by previous regime, did Kiyani and Shuja were so innocent or dumb that they were not aware of that fact.

Why military leadership was not tried for OBL debacle? In case if OBL incident was true then the military leadership has to reseign. There is no point to support them.

 

[jahangeer yousaf]

what else we can expect from pakistani nation who even killed their founder QUAID .... anyways Kiyani and Pasha should stay as army and isi cheif and should not resign at any case ........ they fought well they have done well since yet ........ it was them who stopped and took the u-turn from Pak-USA relations our Govt has no balls to do it ....... even army stopped the supply line of nato ...... yes there are some problems which shouldn't happen like it happened in past raid in abottabbad ... attack in salalala but still they are best ...... americans are pissed off ........ they are doing their duty with best efforts and if someone thinks that they should take over the govt ......... then i do not agree by observing the situation which our country is in .... let the political leaders of ppp and and non-leauge be ghanda and beside our army is well stretched out we have to watch our both borders now ......... and it was non other than kiyani who said our strategy will remain indian specific and yes it should be because india is our rival ........ if we close our eyes from india then we will be no more ...... but they are doing well against USA ......... we cannt fight them straightly we know our strenght but we can kill them by just stopping their supplies .......... may ALLAH bless kiyani and pasha and moreover and most of all Pakistan

 

[shuntmaster]

Looks like after the first salvo by PA/ISI with the memogate, Zardari/Civilian leadership is on the counter attack. Next few days will be interesting to watch in Pakistan. The memogate gave a good excuse for the military to take a moral high ground with respect to the civilians, since the military was humiliated after the OBL raid and the morale was low. But this time the Pakistani civilian leadership doesn't seem to be in the mood to take this lying down and is ready to hit back.

 

[r0ck]

Pakistan's main problem is that the generals are 'UNTOUCHABLES'. Our army is also as corrupt as our civilians, but do it in a bit organized manner, if someone has slightest doubt about this he should have his psychiatric check-up and also refer to Hamood-ur-Rehman Commission Report. Those who disgraced Pakistan in 1971/Siachin/Kargil are enjoying; some are dead but enjoyed full ceremonial services with military salutes.

On the other hand we are hanging/toppling/disgracing our civilian leaderships. We know that they are corrupt to various levels none of them was/is an angel so is the case with army. Even we all as human beings practice this to some extent at our family levels or day to day dealing with other human beings. Just lend some money to other person and ask him to return it after sometime.

In short these are double standards and will not prevail. Everyone to be bring to justice even if it is Zardari/Kiyani/Shuja. If Zardari knows that the drone attacks are allowed by previous regime, did Kiyani and Shuja were so innocent or dumb that they were not aware of that fact.

Why military leadership was not tried for OBL debacle? In case if OBL incident was true then the military leadership has to reseign. There is no point to support them.

Nobody is hanging / toppling our civilian leadership. The disgracing part can only be attributed as a result of their own actions. If it were the case, then Zardari & co. would've been topppled / hanged a long, long time ago. Even now after all this mess they remain on their seats. I think that period when leadership was toppled / hanged has now passed. The norms have now changed from those periods because Pakistan is now in a whole different ball game than previously. (Appearing) To be democratic is very essential in these times for Pakistan.

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for 'justice for everyone' even though it's chances of happening in Pakistan are as dim as a glimmer of light at the far-end of a dark tunnel. You've given an example about corruption in people in cases of lending money. Let's take an example of resignation then. So when do think it is fit that an employee gets fired from his job?

A. When a letter is posted to a wrong address
B. When a payment is authorised to a wrong party
C. When a competitor / outside party gets access to your sensitive records through the said employee.

If you ask me, personally, I'd say for all of the above cases, try some harsh talk with the employee so that he/she gets their head in the right place. Firing from job, I'd say is my last resort. I know there would be other factors involved including whether the employee knew / didn't knew what he/she was doing, his/her past attitude, professionalism with work, etc. etc. In essence I believe that the demand for resignation has to be based on how adverse are the impacts for the entity as result of the mistake, if any.

Similarly, the OBL debacle was technically speaking an intelligence failure. Isn't it unfair to hold all the military leadership accountable for what is strictly speaking an intelligence matter? Even there the ISI chief offered resignation, which as we all know was not accepted and he was, ofcourse , promptly given the go ahead to continue by the PM.

I think before irrationally opting for 'resignations' of any person, be it from the civilian or military leadership or from any other walk of life, a bit of thought is given if there actually is a mistake, if yes then of what magnitude. In this matter, ISPR has already denied the accusations of the newspaper with regard to the ISI chief and is thinking of taking legal action against them, as elaborated in post 34 above. In case of the memo, even as of today, the Supreme Court of Pakistan has yet to receive a single response from the Presidential office. In legal terms and in normal walks of life, silence is considered to be an affirmation of the events. Without digging any bones out of past graves, as of today, who you do think is liable to a resignation in this matter?

 

[shuntmaster]

US says Shariffs too approached it earlier to seek help in preventing coup


Bruce Riedel, a former CIA and White House official who chaired President Barack Obama's 2009 review of U.S. policy on the region, said Sharif himself initiated a similar petition over a decade ago. He recalled a 1999 meeting with Sharif's brother Shahbaz, who he said traveled to Washington to warn of what civilian officials at the time feared was a brewing military coup. "It was an entire day spent at the Willard Hotel listening to Shahbaz talk about their fears that a military coup was coming and asking for American help to prevent it," he said. "That's pretty much the charge (that) is being leveled against Ambassador Haqqani."

A coup did ultimately happen, in 1999, bringing General Pervez Musharraf to power until he resigned as president in August 2008.

 

[abdul majeed yousafzai]

WASHINGTON: Pentagon has expressed confidence that U.S.-Pakistani relations can be improved, and that Islamabad soon will re-open routes used to supply American troops in Afghanistan.

Government of Pakistan closed two crucial border crossings used for some time by the U.S. military in Chaman and Torkham after a Nov. 26 NATO strike that killed two dozen Pakistan Army troops in Mohmand Agency. That was just the latest incident to further escalate tensions between Washington and Islamabad.

Pentagon spokesman George Little told reporters Wednesday he believes the Pakistan supply routes would be re-opened to the U.S. military soon.
He stressed that American forces have “stockpiles” of what they need, describing the troops as “well supplied.”

More broadly, Little also touched on the tense and fragile U.S.-Pakistani relationship, which has been on a downward spiral since American commandos killed Osama bin Laden near Islamabad in early May.

---------- Post added at 12:32 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:32 PM ----------

WASHINGTON: Pentagon has expressed confidence that U.S.-Pakistani relations can be improved, and that Islamabad soon will re-open routes used to supply American troops in Afghanistan.

Government of Pakistan closed two crucial border crossings used for some time by the U.S. military in Chaman and Torkham after a Nov. 26 NATO strike that killed two dozen Pakistan Army troops in Mohmand Agency. That was just the latest incident to further escalate tensions between Washington and Islamabad.

Pentagon spokesman George Little told reporters Wednesday he believes the Pakistan supply routes would be re-opened to the U.S. military soon.
He stressed that American forces have “stockpiles” of what they need, describing the troops as “well supplied.”

More broadly, Little also touched on the tense and fragile U.S.-Pakistani relationship, which has been on a downward spiral since American commandos killed Osama bin Laden near Islamabad in early May.