Peshawar Massacre - TTP kills hundreds of school kids (Avoid graphic pics/vids)

[Abu Zolfiqar]

It also discredited their ambitions for independence. Ultimately, Chechens themselves started killing the Wahhabist Chechens.

the Chechens are not 1 unified group. Within Chechnya you have 18-20 different groups from Azerbaijanis, Ingush, Daghestanis, Tatars, Turks, etc. Not all are seperatists. It was Stalin and Lenin commies who screwed them over - killed them, attacked their religious places of worship. But since that time they are semi-autonomous.

things like Beslan massacre or beheading of Russian soldiers definitely didnt help their struggle. Wahhabism is not even indigenous to Chechnya - it came artificially b/c of the CIA support for the jihad during Cold War. Wahhabism since very beginning has been an artificial POLITICAL tool. Wahhabism represents nothing except backwardsness; DEATH CULT.

its a creation of british, used by the west and nurtured in the Arabian/Persian gulf.......That is why there is no differentiation between ISIS, TTP, Boko Haram and these other groups. Wherever they go - death and destruction follows. This is not Islam.

 

[HughSlaman]

As I said you are ridiculing the victims by writing these. What's funny is some of you are the first ones to support Jihad/terrorism when it's taking place in other countries but when it happens in Pakistan you blame the rest of the world.

Jihad and terrorism are different.
Jihad is the legal and moral use of military force for religious ends.
Terrorism is the illegal and immoral use of violence against civilians and noncombatants for political ends.

I am not ridiculing the victims by pointing out the roots of the problems they faced. You are ridiculing yourself by saying something so ridiculous as this. Please: have a sense of honour!

 

[Azizam]

Jihad and terrorism are different.
Jihad is the legal and moral use of military force for religious ends.
Terrorism is the illegal and immoral use of violence against civilians and noncombatants for political ends.

There you go! My point is proven right here.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

Musharraf has no integrity
1 He did kargil then claims he was about to solve Kashmir with vajpayee
2 Made a scapegoat of AQKhan
3 Claimed he didn't know where OBL was and he was not in Pakistan.

Let's stop this stupid side issues and be insaan ke bachchhe and deal with this like men, Bhagwan in bachchho ke gharwalo ko shakti aur himmat de.

He is an honest person and he tells it how it is. You act as if Kashmir issue began in 1999. Its been going on since 48 - before Musharraf time

AQ Khan was not a scapegoat. He's still considered a hero by many - but because of fame he became a bit greedy and too political.

And unless you can prove Musharraf knew where OBL is - you better keep your beak shut and quit empty speculations.

 

[Joe Shearer]

You got me there! Touche! I admit I overstated things.

And did you really mean to say that you would not believe anything General Musharraf said, even if he told you the sun rose in the East. Did you not overstate things also?

To be honest, after his behaviour in office and out of it, no. I deeply distrust him, and do not put even the worst behaviour beyond him. I believe he is one of those half-a-dozen who has most harmed Pakistan.

 

[Special Delivery]

its a creation of british

Wahhabism is not a creation of the British. Wahhabism was a problem that affected the Ottomans and they stamped it out 3 different times. They never blamed the British. It is a manifestation of what is intrinsically wrong with orthodox interpretations of Islam and the Koran and it materialized on its own two feet.

 

[HughSlaman]

Musharraf has no integrity
1 He did kargil then claims he was about to solve Kashmir with vajpayee
2 Made a scapegoat of AQKhan
3 Claimed he didn't know where OBL was and he was not in Pakistan.

I will not believe any of this until sources are provided.

Let's stop this stupid side issues and be insaan ke bachchhe and deal with this like men, Bhagwan in bachchho ke gharwalo ko shakti aur himmat de.

Agreed. And also, men should be able to discuss the root causes of these horrible problems. Like the fact that India's RAW is behind TTP.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

Jihad and terrorism are different.
Jihad is the legal and moral use of military force for religious ends.
Terrorism is the illegal and immoral use of violence against civilians and noncombatants for political ends.

I am not ridiculing the victims by pointing out the roots of the problems they faced. You are ridiculing yourself by saying something so ridiculous as this. Please: have a sense of honour!

the clergy and the state have to be on the same page to be able to decide what is and what is not jihad...the word has become too much used and with little understanding of its meaning

the real jihad is being fought by the Pakistani military - which has the backing not just by the state or the PROPER and educated clergy but also the PEOPLE/NATION.....they are fighting against the enemies of the Islamic Republic

killing civilians -- including innocent children who have NOTHING to do with Zarb e Azb operation -- is not Islam or jihad....its madness, terrorism, sub-human behaviour - on display to the world

 

[Prometheus]

 

[Joe Shearer]

Other than these Talib child-murderers are there many other Pakistanis who consider Hitler an inspiring role model?

Regrettably there are people from other nationalities in the neighbourhood who think so. This is not the time or the place, but some other time, some other place, we can talk about that.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

Wahhabism is not a creation of the British. Wahhabism was a problem that affected the Ottomans and they stamped it out 3 different times. They never blamed the British. It is a manifestation of what is intrinsically wrong with orthodox interpretations of Islam and the Koran and it materialized on its own two feet.

wahhabism was created with the help of the british - to be used against the Ottomans.......in exchange, a few "royals" belonging to one or two tribes were propped up like puppets and gave blessings to have foreigners drill holes in the ground to extract oil

its not a sect of Islam - its just a CULT.....wherever it goes - intolerance, extortion, murder, rape, plunder and destruction follows.

 

[Thorough Pro]

This is definitely the worst day of my life, ever. Couldn't do any thing since I heard this news and am still crying, my tears just don't stop, my heart and soul is crying. This is such a great loss to this nation. This is a back handed slap on our national face, we failed to protect our future, our hope, our most innocent souls. while my heart goes out to the bereaved families and the whole nation on this brutal attack on conscience, my body is trembling with rage and anger, and by GOD if I had the control on our nukes, I wouldn't have left one in its silo.

This is no time for politics, this the time to unite and show our resolve, this is the time to give dead line to Afghanistan to take action against these terrorist groups, or let us take them out. this is the time to use nukes and chemical, and biological weapons. This is the time to infect captured terrorists with deadly, contagious viruses and let them loose in their tribal areas. this is the time stand behind our government and our forces. This is the time to isolate and silence all terrorism and terrorist supporters. This is the time to show total and intolerance towards racism and sectarianism, This is the time to become a NATION and take revenge of our innocent kids brutally slain right under our noses, right before our eyes. this is the time to ACT, or wait like sheep for more slaughters like these.

@mods stop fucking being sissy and politically correct. No one is taking you to courts for permanently banning terror sympathizers and Indians adding salt to our injury.

 

[Bratva]

Not desperation, not at all. My sentiments at the moment are sorrow and anger, and I despise your attempts at diverting the issue to something that it never was. Secondly, concentrate, if your bile will allow you, on the major point I sought to make: the continuous references to a fictional fourteen consulates. Thirdly, being General and President and doing the sorts of things that he did make him unreliable, whether he was under trial or not. How ridiculous to say that he made that video when he was not under trial? Are you saying that people's integrity changes according to whether or not they are, at that moment, under trial? Do you understand that he is under trial now, but not for things he has done now, but for things done at some time in the past? Do you understand that my distrust is of things done, not now, when he is under trial, but in the past?

I think we came at an impasse, You and I can do debates in circles whether to take Musharraf statement about Indian covert activities as fact or as his wild imagination. To keep the sanctity of this thread entact, let's agree to disagree.

P.S. Does people integrity matter as well when Indian media wildly accuses Pakistan after each attack on it's soil ?

 

[HughSlaman]

To be honest, after his behaviour in office and out of it, no. I deeply distrust him, and do not put even the worst behaviour beyond him. I believe he is one of those half-a-dozen who has most harmed Pakistan.

Then I can't trust you; you can't seriously disbelieve Musharraf when he says something you already know is right (like the sun rising from the East), and yet you claim you would disbelieve him. If you can't admit your obvious overstatements, how can I believe what you say?

Musharraf admits he has made lots of mistakes, and clearly states what he regrets doing.
I have found him to be very straightforward and truthful in his intentions. Since he is an expert in this area, I believe him when he says that TTP is backed by India's RAW.

 

[Black Mamba1]

Jihad and terrorism are different.
Jihad is the legal and moral use of military force for religious ends.
Terrorism is the illegal and immoral use of violence against civilians and noncombatants for political ends.

I am not ridiculing the victims by pointing out the roots of the problems they faced. You are ridiculing yourself by saying something so ridiculous as this. Please: have a sense of honour!

Entire definition is confusing-

1. Legal : Which law? India's law, Pakistan's law, Saudi Law or Terrorist's law?
2. Immoral : There is no uniform code for morality. Morality is dependant on timeframe and geography and even sect. Even terrorists have their own definition of morality