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Peshawar Massacre - TTP kills hundreds of school kids (Avoid graphic pics/vids)

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Radical British Muslims are radical because they listen to radical people with radical political and religious views. I know a few such people, but mostly they are moderates.

Right- so Islam is the problem.



No, Islam is not the problem. Just like Socialism wasn't a problem when the world's evil all seemed to emanate from Socialists. Just like black skin wasn't a problem when blacks used to be considered evil in many parts of the world. Just like Irish-ness wasn't a problem when all everyone talked about was how evil the IRA was. Just like Atheism wasn't a problem when an Atheists (Stalin and Mao Zedong) got a few hundred million people killed.

People, individuals and their politics, are the problems. You eradicate Islam and you'll have dozens of other groups waiting in line to wreak havoc. Such hatred achieves nothing.

Just to support what is being said above: less than 2% of the war deaths in the twentieth century were in wars in which Muslims were fighting.

To re-work a famous statement of the NRA in America: "Religions don't kill people, people kill people!"
 
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Radical British Muslims are radical because they listen to radical people with radical political and religious views. I know a few such people, but mostly they are moderates.

Right- so Islam is the problem.

No, Islam is not the problem. Just like Socialism wasn't a problem when the world's evil all seemed to emanate from Socialists. Just like black skin wasn't a problem when blacks used to be considered evil in many parts of the world. Just like Irish-ness wasn't a problem when all everyone talked about was how evil the IRA was. Just like Atheism wasn't a problem when an Atheists (Stalin and Mao Zedong) got a few hundred million people killed.

People, individuals and their politics, are the problems. You eradicate Islam and you'll have dozens of other groups waiting in line to wreak havoc. Such hatred achieves nothing.

Socialism, black skin, being Irish or an atheist isn't an underlying ideology which have their own scriptures, history and norms. Socialism is a system, not a religion like Islam. Systems are man made and can be changed. Islam on the other hand is considered to be God sent, which cannot be changed or questioned. Now I can be a liberal socialist or a communist capitalist, and such things exist today.

Why justify what Muslims do by comparing it to other problems that happened decades ago? Why can't you tackle the issue head-on rather than absolving Islam of any issues?
 
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Just to support what is being said above: less than 2% of the war deaths in the twentieth century were in wars in which Muslims were fighting.

To re-work a famous statement of the NRA in America: "Religions don't kill people, people kill people!"

People use religious arguments and reasonings to kill people. People are born peaceful and heavily influenced by their environment.
 
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Shireen Mazari said that out of total 146 people killed in today’s tragic incident, nearly 140 killed are children. She said 113 people including children were injured in the attack also.

Please, feel free to tell us,what these so called religious madrasah are producing. Let me answer that one,1000s upon 1000s future killers,brain washed and ready to kill. Only an religious extremist will kill a child and don't blink,only a religious extremist will blow himself up killing innocent, and thinks his actions are justified cause a homosexual, self appointed mullah told him too.

I will not jump to conclusions till the terrorists are ID'd, simple. Once they are I can get back to the rest of your points.
 
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Just to support what is being said above: less than 2% of the war deaths in the twentieth century were in wars in which Muslims were fighting.

To re-work a famous statement of the NRA in America: "Religions don't kill people, people kill people!"

Forget what happened with others or what others did. We need to look at the major menace this world is facing today.

Your comment reads like this to me, "the so and so people killed more than Muslims 50 years ago so we should just move on".
 
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People use religious arguments and reasonings to kill people. People are born peaceful and heavily influenced by their environment.

They also use secular arguments and reasonings to kill people. The history of Communism testifies to that.

We need to challenge arguments and reasonings that lead to injustice. This is not a religious issue as such.
 
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They also use secular arguments and reasonings to kill people. The history of Communism testifies to that.

We need to challenge arguments and reasonings that lead to injustice. This is not a religious issue as such.

The immediate atrocity is a religious issue. Let us leave the generalisations for later. Not today, not for the next two days. Please.
 
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Forget what happened with others or what others did. We need to look at the major menace this world is facing today.

Your comment reads like this to me, "the so and so people killed more than Muslims 50 years ago so we should just move on".

What I am saying is that Islam is not the problem. There is a certain mentality which is the problem, and this mentality can be dressed up in ideas from any religion or no religion. As for TTP, Islam has warned us of this mentality 1400 years ago.

HadithonTTP.jpg
 
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It shows your narrow view and incompetency.

Education is not a magic that transforms people.

I hope you never leeched on Pakistan's tax payer's money nor someone from your family of similar views!

It is one of the tools to humanize them!
education what education? the lawyers in pakistan supposedly have an education but the same people were throwing petals at mumtaz qadri after he shot dead salman taseer, mumtaz qadri is sitting in a jail being treated like a king by the police, the religious leadership of this country has driven pakistan to the dark ages, literally massacre upon massacre happens and all these leaders brush it aside as if its nothing and whenever a mentally handicapped individual says a negative comment regarding islam these fucking illeterate monkeys go wild on the streets and beg for blood. and they are supported by droves of idiots from ''educated'' establishments. When the maulvis and religious leaders don't speak out against the injustice of 140 kids getting shot to death it only tells me 1 things, there version of islam allows children to be targets of extreme violence.
 
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Where are you going with this... please get in context.

I'm sorry but children of religious people were there too, and with your fatwa and underlying preaching of atheism is not effective enough for the world to convert.

Whereas, I trust dead terrorists will be properly tested, investigations will be carried out from all dimensions, no guess work as you propose... let's I pray to God... help us finding the master minds and defeating the culprits.

Regarding, Afghan Talibans... i believe they are history, and i (personally) don't value your link as I don't believe in those press releases being real deal, and as an argument, i refereed to various press releases being issued after Lahore attack, although i came across a fresh press release from so called Afghan Taliban, which was countering your link but i didn't quoted it....

Last but not least i don't give a dam.... if PAK army follows your hilarious logic, or you personally attack Afghanistan with world atheist army and start killing every Pashtoons you came across, under what ever pretext serve you best.

Ironically.. you were quick in judging the affiliations of terrorists but failed follow the reports, where kids was telling them speaking in Arabic and English... which certainly broaden the canvas far beyond Afghan border.
Actually everyone become suspicious of being idiot when he or she jump to conclusion without even discussing all dimensions, in proper manner.

My reason for bias against terrorists is more than apparent. You dont have to look for hidden meanings there. The presence of children of religious people, is no argument. The terrorists knew that these children were sons/daughters of army personnel and hence targeted them. According to them, the army of Pakistan is an infidel army. The motivation of the terrorists is still religious in nature, striving to impose true Islam in this country, this isn't a racial or political conflict. You saw the faces of the dead scumbags, I am sure, did they look foreign to you? Do those people look as if they have arrived from one of the usual suspect countries? This is a basic argument, but since the ISPR hasn't confirmed or denied anything until now, about the identity, that is the best I can give you, for now.

Them being history doesn't change the fact that they did similar things for which then they were commended by my countrymen, there are sources available to confirm this, the truth is very different from what Pakistanis believed, believe or would like to believe about them, nothing like "true Islam has arrived in Afghanistan" as I was constantly reminded by people around me. There were conflicting reports about the responsbility for the Lahore attack, but TTP has carried out such attacks in the past, with much more severity. So, the best guess was that someone was looking to jump on the bandwagon and claim some publicity. The Afghan Taliban despite the differences, have clinged onto TTP citing the "Muslim part" and never once before this one, has any attack of TTP condemned or the death of any of their leaders celebrated with the Pakistanis. This assumption of friendship with the evil is then pure delusion. I believe that the current condemnation is just made, to grab any sympathy or attention following the nation, because the people are shocked right now and looking for answers. Mere condemnation doesn't absolve them of what they did in that country, during their rule.

You give a damn enough to quote me persistently. Why shy away now? I haven't pointed this as being a Pushtoon problem, just the tribalism and tribal code, I dont really know what you have been getting from my posts. Haven't you read my posts telling people to worry about their own country and look beyond when its taken care of? The affiliation of terrorists has been long known, there was no guesswork involved there by any chance. Remember, that the ISPR hasn't once pointed a finger to any foreign country except Afghanistan, this blame-denial game is, as such, is a creation of the mind's defense mechanism and not something supported officially by the state of Pakistan.

P.S I heard about them talking in Arabic on ARY and a couple other channels, I missed the English part somehow. Would you mind giving me the source for it? Same goes for all the Mehsud trips's, tattos and vodkas being found and nobody knowing and telling about it. For most people here, considering "every dimension" or how that fancy word goes, is simply getting defensive, start defending religion, go into denial mode and chant America, India and Israel. Nothing seems to be much different here.

Fact is that Islamic knowledge is not prevalent in Pakistan. People don't try to understand the message of Holy Quran and even bother paying proper attention to hadith. True Islamic scholars are in shortage. Many people are Muslims only in name, not in practice. Pakistani governments don't bother promoting Islamic values and teachings either.

Which foreign influence? Indian, American, Iranian Shia'ism, to name a few. Want more examples?

How many terrorists attacks were being carried out in the 60's and 70's when we used to be secular (or more non religious than we are now)? Why exactly did these problems of radicalization and sectariarnism only crop up when the state experimented mixing politics with religion and selling extremism to common folks to prepare them for Afghan Jihad? I am sorry but it really doesn't seem that the lack of religion is the problem, its the abundance thats hurting the nation most. Its not the duty of the state to spoon fed the people with religion and humanity. The Pakistani problem is no moderation, simple blind following of the Mullahs!

Yes, typical national habit of passing blame and absolving themselves of all sins. You have done exactly that, congratulations. With one hypocrisy, you forgot to add the most dominant of all, the Arab influence. The influence is there, no doubt, however that is no explanation for where things have gone.
rattafication is not teaching...

How exactly do you want us to teach the religion then?
No. I was not really even 'wondering'. I knew such change was not possible in a mere 10 years in a majority population of over 150 millions.

I don't think I have gotten the 'sense' that Pakistanis are hell-bent on blowing themselves up. Way back in the early 2000s' Musharraf used '1%' Pakistanis are extremists? Pakistan could not survive if even 5% were extremists.

The acts of terrorism in Pakistan cannot be removed from the events of 9/11--I had alluded to those above. I don't have any answers but I don't believe that 150+ million people decided to go bezerkly religious in a short span of 10 years. I believe ALL acts of terrorism inside Pakistan are secular in nature--for power grab.

Such change is possible if its seen as a withdrawal. The U turn on the earlier policies, continued for two decades, had to take its toll. There is no "cold turkey" possible on the opiate of the masses. Pakistanis might not be hell bent on "blowing themselves up" but I can assure you that a large part of population believes the Taliban ideology is correct, even if their method of execution isn't. Thats a problem. You cant deny the extent of radicalization and extremism in this society because too long has it been denied, only to be slapped harder by the reality after some time. These acts of terror cant be all foreign, neither can be the thousands of people that are fighting the state, neither the millions supporters and the apologists. Of course not, I am not looking to remove them from that even, the problem is that the problem doesn't start from the attacks on twin towers, this is a false notion. It has to seen as beginning from the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan which sadly, is what Pakistanis miss. Only if it had been secular in nature, the terrorists wouldn't have found the constant supply of cadres to fill their ranks.
 
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Just to support what is being said above: less than 2% of the war deaths in the twentieth century were in wars in which Muslims were fighting.

To re-work a famous statement of the NRA in America: "Religions don't kill people, people kill people!"
:tup:
Also, Muslims don't lead in terrorism either. According to the FBI, Muslims were behind only 6% of terrorist attacks in the US (report from 2005).
Results are similar in the EU
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https://www.europol.europa.eu/sites/default/files/publications/tesat2008.pdf
 
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The immediate atrocity is a religious issue. Let us leave the generalisations for later. Not today, not for the next two days. Please.

Since you're Indian, you should realize that your country's intelligence agencies are supporting the TTP. This has been clearly pointed out by General Musharraf and others. Evidence for this is not hard to find.
The roots of this are not religious at all; that is just the outer form the problem takes in its final stages.
 
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General Musharraf has clearly pointed out a great deal of nonsense in his time. And don't search for evidence reducing the black evil of the perpetrators, on the specious grounds that these perpetrators are funded for political reasons, by other 'grey' perpetrators. It is this kind of stupid conspiracy theory that has caused south Asia, not just Pakistan, the most harm, the most bloodshed in the last century. Your comments are really out of place. I am beginning to resent them more and more.
 
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also for you @Oscar
Well for me it maybe an individual choice.....

You stopped me going into details sis :)

Don't get me wrong, but the ideology of getting acquainted by random reading, understanding and interpretation has led us to the point that we have lost more than 50,000 innocent lives, plus those of today. You SHOULD NOT and MUST NOT read Quran and Hadith and interpretation on your own as there is a very fine line between the right path and going astray. We have plenty of examples of it. I never said this before but I am a doctor who has studied 10 years to qualify for a specialist and then became eligible to work in my speciality. You will never allow any paramedic with the similar years of experience to treat your relative, will you? Similarly, have Quran - the book of ALL specialities, and Hadiths - the refined approach of Quran become this damn easy that anybody will come up with his BS interpretation without any degree or specialization and start giving his verdicts on the whole belief system? No Ma'am, sorry! Not acceptable until and unless he is (1) from ahlus sunnah wal jama'at, (2) has ijaza from peers. @TankMan also has wrong and usual explanation of taqleed found in free pamphlets distributed outside the mosques. Those handouts have RUINED Pakistan and now every other person is either a full blown mufti or religious dimwit passing fatwas wherever and whenever he can. Another point was Taqleed which is NOT blind following in any way but the extract of hundreds of hours of contemplations of the peers of ahlus sunnah wal jama'at - the system established right after the passing away of Beloved SAW so the judgements given were 99.9% correct if not 100%. How can we argue after 1400 years that fulan hadith is weak which was not weak for Hanafi, Shafai, Maliki or Hanbali ulema some 1300 years ago? I never give an ear when someone quickly disregard a hadith calling it weak; instead that hadith becomes a gem to me. Once the ideology of self proclaimed clergy will be diminished from the earth, we Muslims will be at peace. You called me ignorant in one of your post because of that.....that religious policing sensor detecting me with a threshold of suspected ignorant. You don't even know my background. But am immune. And if I misunderstood you, I humbly apologise. Also, I will not indulge myself in any reply-upon-reply responses. Just said what I felt right.

Ps: I tried to be careful not to hurt anyone's feelings. But still someone is hurt, I sincerely apologise.
Pss: I have not dragged any sect, instead portrayed view points of ahlus sunnah wal jama'at and why we are suffering today
@waz please feel free to delete my post if I am diverting the topic despite many warnings
 
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It is but dont you see a pattern where you blindly do something you dont know the meaning of...

Talibans are equally blindly doing something they know not what it means....

We pray and remain on the jaan namaaz until our hearts feel less burdened!

I didnt bring up this for discussing but wanted to see how many ACTUALLY knew what they are doing! You could pick up its history...

What I dont get is when killing people ....people pick up verses from the Quran and quotes from hadith but when it is time to ACTUALLY PICK OUT VERSES AND RECITE THEM or make DOA to ALLAH no one quotes Quran or hadith?

Why use Islam as a shield to start fights? But not when you ACTUALLY SHOULD? Then you blame religion for this and that....

Fine light a candle but dont EVER blame Islam coz people dont seem to think Quran or doa or fatiha for the departed soul would bring peace but lighting a candle would!
yaar sis relax he is from Ahmedi Community.
 
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