Persian Might: How strong is the Iranian Military

[Phantom.]

Even discovering of a stealth drone is a big deal, let alone hacking it.

Rq170 is the same drone which Americans used for killing Bin Laden and your air defenses couldn't detect it.

damn even i didnt know USA used a drone to kill bin laden in pakistan

 

[Hack-Hook]

damn even i didnt know USA used a drone to kill bin laden in pakistan

at the time they used one RQ-170 over the area (don't forget its an intelligence gathering drone not a strike drone)

 

[Philosopher]

A

You keep talking out of your *** yet contradict yourself when you bring up "facts" into the situation.

Saudis don't protest because they fear beheading?! if preventing protests was so easy then why does Saudi develop cities, railways, metros, and why the hell does it care about its people enough to give them free schooling, free healthcare, and free scholarships?

You know that the KSA is number 4 in sending their students to study in the USA?
It goes like this: China, India, Korea, Saudi

You see, Saudi sends hundred of thousands of students abroad to study for FREE on scholarships (unlike China, India, and Korea) The government pays for tuition, healthcare, a stipend, travel tickets, and any additional costs that may arise (like uncovered health services and emergencies) totaling to $1~2 Million per student

You know how easy it is for one of these students (the one fearing beheading if they protest) to just stay in the U.S. or Europe or Japan? or accept Qatari money to flip on their own government? the "threat" of Saudi is not there, so why not protest?

How many Saudis abroad have protested when they had escaped the clutches of their government? can you say the same thing about iran?

I say it again, you are delusional.

We're talking this thread off topic, this is not the reason the OP started this thread. So this is m last reply to you in this topic.

Listen mate, you can post all the "saudi is great", "saudi is number 4" etc etc, but you will not change the fact your nation (which is named after your ruling family) is headed by brutal dictators that will behead anyone that dares to speak out. You country is synonymous with lack of freedom. As for this silly notion that those students that apparently don't stay abroad so it means they're happy with saudi arabia LOL. Those students have families that would probably be beheaded and don't forget, most of these students are from the more privileged section of your country.

@jaibi

Fanciful statistics aside, question should be how competent Iranian armed forces are actually. They shot down a passenger aircraft near an Iranian airport - an incident which has exposed a glaring weakness in the quality of men.

Please refrain from posting such misinformation. We have already debunked these claims this incident had to do with the competence of the armed forces. Given your history of bias in favour of the US, I am not surprised you would pretend not see this.

Their greatest asset is ballistic missiles (even these have 30% failure rate) There is also the issue of internal rifts in Iran - these cracks are increasingly apparent in recent years.

30% failure rate? Explain to me where 30% of those failures were in that recent missile attack on the US air base.

American Army and Marines while under Air Cover, will crush your armed forces even in a ground invasion and level your cities which might be up in arms (Fallujah style), with minimum casualties.

Perhaps in hollywood, but not in real life. I take it you know more than the Israeli expert Yakov Kedmi that I posted?

This is not Iraqi Army of the 1980s which could not reach Tehran even in 2 years due to significant logistics-related problems and poor Russian-origin Armor which could not hold ground in clashes with even Iranian irregulars at the time. However, this level of commitment to a war, is a question of political will in American centers of power as well as how American Public will perceive this move.

Right, yes, the Americans can magically teleport logistical support, something the Iraqis could not.

As for assymmetric dimensions, US have been contending with these type of forces since 2001 and they have learned a great deal from these operations. I suggest you study Operation Inherent Resolve. They know all about so-called hybrid warfare concepts - Russian doctrine by the way.

Contending and failing miserably.

Look, no offence, but I find it hard to take you seriously given that you funny enough, try to actually claim to be neutral. The amount of pro-US and american propaganda in your comments is simply too much.

 

[azzo]

Those students have families that would probably be beheaded

Please keep believing that, it's in our best interest.

they are taking millions of barrels oil for free from you, they have all control of your oil industries, you're the laziest peoples on earth, you're their slaves, your workforce provided by south Asian/east Asian countries, their is not much oil left on the middle east, within 60 year or so there will be no oil in Middle East, so what should you do then

Please keep believing that, it's in our best interest.

Best,

 

[jaibi]

Compared to the region as a middle power, yes, I would say that the Iranian military probably has an edge over her neighbours but I was talking specfically for a US based scenario.

Iranian security apparatus is definitely potent for its regional rivals, particularly with its ability to strike at infrastructure anywhere in the Middle East. Iranians have planned for numerous contingencies including housing ballistic missiles in a facilities inside mountains.

For reference: https://www.euronews.com/2015/10/15...r-missiles-perhaps-bid-to-reinforce-deterence

No country in the Middle East have the capacity to invade Iran and/or subject it to a military occupation. KSA does not have sufficient number of quality troops, and Israel does not have a massive navy to pull off a Normandy on Iranian soil. Both KSA and Israel can strike at Iran from a distance at most. Stalemate dynamics.

USA is a completely different beast in comparison to any country in the Middle East. They have a huge military force that also happen to be better equipped and experienced in methods of warfare than any other in the world (better equipped being an understatement; vast disparity is the term). USA can strike at any coastal country from virtually any angle and fight a war in the manner it wants to. Americans can destroy virtually anything in Iran including those deeply buried facilities. In no way or form, Iran is equipped to deal with this kind of threat.

Some Iranian members mistake US for a country in the Middle East.

would it be militarily a wise move?

Within hours of war "if full fledged" Iran loose air power, radars, power stations and most of its command centers.

What they can do best to fire ballistic missiles on U.S bases...result would be some casualties nothing more.

@Mr Robot @LeGenD Loving the exchange, brothers, keep it up!

 

[Maarkhoor]

Compared to the region as a middle power, yes, I would say that the Iranian military probably has an edge over her neighbours but I was talking specfically for a US based scenario.


would it be militarily a wise move?

Iran have poorest air force, Air defense based on old Russian SAMS.....U.S can take down in hours but KSA, UAE would face wrath of Iran in that case...Their airports big building would turn into pile of rubble....

Best U.S can do is Arab spring like situation and later regime change "Which seems to be difficult" but onlt option available.

 

[Philosopher]

Iran have poorest air force,

True, but that's because of:
1- Sanctions
2- Iran not investing heavily in Iran. This may change soon.

Air defense based on old Russian SAMS....

Oh really? Which "old Russian SAMS" is the Bavar-373 based on?

How many nations have developed such a long range air defence?

.U.S can take down in hours but KSA, UAE would face wrath of Iran in that case...Their airports big building would turn into pile of rubble....

So the US works in inverse laws. So now the US can defeat Iran in hours. It seems the stronger the US adversary, the quicker the US defeats them. Given that it took days for US to deal with Saddam's military. And what was a mainly conventional war (initially).

Best U.S can do is Arab spring like situation and later regime change "Which seems to be difficult" but onlt option available.

If the US could have, then it would have. What exactly is stopping the US?

 

[Maarkhoor]

True, but that's because of:
1- Sanctions
2- Iran not investing heavily in Iran. This may change soon.





Oh really? Which "old Russian SAMS" is the Bavar-373 based on?

How many nations have developed such a long range air defence?




So the US works in inverse laws. So now the US can defeat Iran in hours. It seems the stronger the US adversary, the quicker the US defeats them. Given that it took days for US to deal with Saddam's military. And what was a mainly conventional war (initially).



If the US could have, then it would have. What exactly is stopping the US exactly?

Most of these system are just models to impress others....

Just like Qaher 313

 

[Philosopher]

Most of these system are just models to impress others....

Just like Qaher 313

Please explain to us how the Bavar-373 is "just a model".


As for the picture of Qaher-313. That was a mockup of an ongoing project.

Heard of the tempest? Here is a mockup.

Or what about the have blue project (f-117 predecessor)?

So I guess these were models to impress others or perhaps you are simply unaware of how plane development works.

First models are made, then taxi tests:

Next stage will be flights.

Yes, these things take time. Designing and making a jet takes time. Even if that product is for technology demonstration etc.

 

[Ultima Thule]

Please keep believing that, it's in our best interest.

Best,

am i lied, give the single words that's i lie on my previous post

 

[LeGenD]

Please refrain from posting such misinformation. We have already debunked these claims this incident had to do with the competence of the armed forces. Given your history of bias in favour of the US, I am not surprised you would pretend not see this.

The fact that a passenger aircraft was shot down soon after its take-off from an airport is very telling in regards to professionalism of Iranian SAM operators.

Passenger aircraft have a large RCS on average. These are easy to identify and distinguish from surface clutter - any reasonable radar system is up to the task. This bring into question the quality of the TOR-M1 system.

Secondly, SAM operators should be able to distinguish passenger aircraft from other objects on a radar screen. Problem is that Iran's military forces are far from homogeneous in quality and readiness.

Coordination between Iranian surface defenses and other infrastructure is another issue.

You have debunked nothing.

30% failure rate? Explain to me where 30% of those failures were in that recent missile attack on the US air base.

Yes.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1214730628807221248

I have told you before that they have cutting-edge spy networks in space which can/will notice movements of ballistic missiles in real-time and more.

Perhaps in hollywood, but not in real life. I take it you know more than the Israeli expert Yakov Kedmi that I posted?

Refer back to this post in which I cover KSA and Israel: https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/pers...-iranian-military.649718/page-4#post-12022806

Famous Iraqi military commander Ra'ad al-Hamdani who is a veteran of Iraqi wars with Israel, Iran and USA, had a much higher view of military might and professionalism of USA based on his experiences; Israel and Iran did not impress him conversely.

USA is far stronger than Israel actually, in military-related matters as well.

That Israeli expert is entitled to his view but I strongly disagree with him.

Do you know about Pakistani political scientist Hassan Askari? Highly accomplished individual. When US-led forces invaded Iraq in 2003, Geo TV reached out to Mr. Askari to cover Operation Iraqi Freedom and he was of the view that US-led forces will fail to take over Iraq and Baghdad would be next Stalingrad. I rolled my eyes while listening to his views on Geo TV. When American military vehicles were passing through the streets of Baghdad, Mr. Askari was in utter disbelief.

Spare me views of the so-called experts.

My judgements are usually up to the mark but I am not a TV personality.

Right, yes, the Americans can magically teleport logistical support, something the Iraqis could not.

Childish rants.

Do you understand warfare even in theory? I really doubt.

Military vehicles need lot of fuel to traverse through terrain. If supplies are not up to the task (timely and sufficient), military advances will slow down and military vehicles will have to be stopped for much longer periods of time during the course of a military operation. These shortcomings will give defenders ample time to regroup and fight back. This is why Iraqi Military failed to occupy Iran in 1980 even when Iran was at its lowest point of military readiness. Iraqi Army could not reach Tehran even in a span of 2 years.

Compare that to American Blitzkrieg in Iraq in 2003. US-led forces were on the move since day 1 and reached Baghdad in a span of 21 days. This wasn't due to lack of resistance (thousands of Iraqi troops and militia perished during the course of these 21 days while resisting advances of American troops) but due to American troops having excellent logistics and not giving Iraqi security apparatus much breathing space and time to strategize and resist effectively. American Armor was also capable of taking lot of pounding and continue to punch through. Russian-origin Armor falls short in comparison.

Contending and failing miserably.

Really? You are utterly clueless.

Read and learn: https://ctc.usma.edu/eighteen-years-war-terror-comes-age/

I can expand much on this subject myself but my time is better served elsewhere.

Look, no offence, but I find it hard to take you seriously given that you funny enough, try to actually claim to be neutral. The amount of pro-US and american propaganda in your comments is simply too much.

YAWN

My loyality is reserved for my country only but I will always strive for truthfulness and not appeasement.

 

[Philosopher]

The fact that a passenger aircraft was shot down soon after its take-off from an airport is very telling in regards to professionalism of Iranian SAM operators.

You are wrong. Please read more into the details of what happened.

Passenger aircraft have a large RCS on average. These are easy to identify and distinguish from surface clutter - any reasonable radar system is up to the task. This bring into question the quality of the TOR-M1 system.

One of the issues with tor-M1 is precisely that it is not very capable of such RCS calculations.

Secondly, SAM operators should be able to distinguish passenger aircraft from other objects on a radar screen. Problem is that Iran's military forces are far from homogeneous in quality and readiness.

Not the Tor-M1, for the reason I posted above.

Coordination between Iranian surface defenses and other infrastructure is another issue.

Except the fact:

1- In a potential conflict these systems work mainly independently.
2- The operator actually lost contact when trying to obtain connection between it and higher up the chain of command.

You have debunked nothing.

Your version of the story has nothing to do with what actually happened.

Yes.

Misinformation.

15 missiles were fired, 1 failed in flight.

A random twitter claim is not proof.

I have told you before that they have cutting-edge spy networks in space which can/will notice movements of ballistic missiles in real-time and more.

Sure, these super spy network will also tell them about the missile underground?

Famous Iraqi military commander Ra'ad al-Hamdani who is a veteran of Iraqi wars with Israel, Iran and USA, had a much higher view of military might and professionalism of USA based on his experiences; Israel and Iran did not impress him conversely.

And? what does that have to do with claim US cannot invade Iran via ground?

USA is far stronger than Israel actually, in military-related matters as well.

Once again, so what? Are we talking about Israel invading Iran?

That Israeli expert is entitled to his view but I strongly disagree with him.

He is an ex head of their spy agency, what about you? Please understand, I am more likely to take his over someone whose credential are unknown.

Do you know about Pakistani political scientist Hassan Askari? Highly accomplished individual. When US-led forces invaded Iraq in 2003, Geo TV reached out to Mr. Askari to cover Operation Iraqi Freedom and he was of the view that US-led forces will fail to take over Iraq and Baghdad would be next Stalingrad. I rolled my eyes while listening to his views on Geo TV. When American military vehicles were passing through the streets of Baghdad, Mr. Askari was in utter disbelief.

Apples and oranges. What does Iraq have to do with Iran?

Spare me views of the so-called experts.

Right, instead we should take the words of some random people on the internet?

My judgements are usually up to the mark but I am not a TV personality.

Look, maybe you're right on some topics etc, but sadly so far, you're not instilling much trust when you make comments on topics (e.g Shooting down of plane) with inaccuracies.

Childish rants.

Not really.

Do you understand warfare even in theory? I really doubt.

You're the one thinking the US could provide major logistical support in a conflict with Iran without any explanation as to how that would work.

Military vehicles need lot of fuel to traverse through terrain. If supplies are not up to the task (timely and sufficient), military advances will slow down and military vehicles will have to be stopped for much longer periods of time during the course of a military operation. These shortcomings will give defenders ample time to regroup and fight back. This is why Iraqi Military failed to occupy Iran in 1980 even when Iran was at its lowest point of military readiness. Iraqi Army could not reach Tehran even in a span of 2 years.

Compare that to American Blitzkrieg in Iraq in 2003. US-led forces were on the move since day 1 and reached Baghdad in a span of 21 days. This wasn't due to lack of resistance (thousands of Iraqi troops and militia perished during the course of these 21 days while resisting advances of American troops) but due to American troops having excellent logistics and not giving Iraqi security apparatus much breathing space and time to strategize and resist effectively. American Armor was also capable of taking lot of pounding and continue to punch through. Russian-origin Armor falls short in comparison.

.

What does this Iraq war scenario have anything to do with potential war with Iran?

We should not be under the assumption that all wars can assumed to be qualitatively similar, especially when we're considering the difference between an Iran war and that which occurred with Iraq.

Can the US provide such logistical support in war with Iran? Where will such support come from? Via teleportation?

Really? You are utterly clueless.

Read and learn: https://ctc.usma.edu/eighteen-years-war-terror-comes-age/

Biased source.

Everyone neutral (even most Americans) can see the quagmire the US has been in for the last 20 or years in this region precisely because of its inability to deal with such asymmetrical threats.

YAWN

My loyality is reserved for my country only but I will always strive for truthfulness and not appeasement.

My point I made to you before remains, i.e you don't realise how biased you're coming across.

 

[homar]

Undeniably stronger than the militaries of all other regional states. Obviously, one cannot compare Iran’s military to that of the US. A cursory glance at defence spending will confirm this beyond any doubt. Only China will be able to challenge the US over the coming decades.

However, whilst the US has significant ability to project power anywhere on the globe, it does have finite resources and very real operational constraints. It may be a super power, but it is certainly not infinitely powerful. The idea that the US could march through to Tehran whilst suffering minimal losses is a fallacious claim. Even a rudimentary understanding of modern conflicts shows such nonsensical arguments for what they are.

Iran cannot hope to equal the US for military strength within this century. In order to ensure its security it must either choose to cede its sovereignty and dignity, like some of the Gulf states, or it must acquire significant non-conventional capabilities.

 

[Ultima Thule]

1- In a potential conflict these systems work mainly independently.
2- If you actually read into the details of this incident, you'd know the operator actually lost contact when trying to obtain connection between it and higher up the chain of command.

No you're wrong at this part, i war coordination/link/timing in between different forces of country are critical, ever heard of C4I network centric system, if operator lost the contact then he should wait to decide or would be be reach to more advance radar from nearest source, and he is military radar operator then he definitely able to differentiate between which one is a passenger jet and which one is a military target

 

[Philosopher]

No you're wrong at this part, i war coordination/link/timing in between different forces of country are critical, ever heard of C4I network centric system, if operator lost the contact then he should wait to decide or would be be reach to more advance radar from nearest source,

In Iran, these systems are given the power to act independently if needed.

and he is military radar operator then he definitely able to differentiate between which one is a passenger jet and which one is a military target

The issue is Tor-m1 is not great for RCS calculations. All that operator would have seen is a blip. Given he had not long to decide and was told to expect cruise missiles attack, this terrible incident happened. The faults lie with the people that did not ground the civilians flights.