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People Reject Ram Mandir Politics in Ayodhya!

Buddy ,I already said that congress is more communal than Bjp.Rest are stereotypes.
and in elections it is the stereotypes which matters.I am gonna vote for bjp in 2014 But Average Indians are not that well informed.
If Bjp wants to come to power then they have to get a secular outlook,otherwise there is still a chance of UPA III in 2014.

Minority Majority should not be taken as an agenda. Economic progress and corruption free environment should be.
that is the only reason Modi is still coming power because his economic reforms have faded his communal image.

By the way People in punjab don't vote for religious reasons.I personally don't like Akali dal they are corrupt to the core along with the state Bjp, I don't know how they managed to come to power perhaps because of corruption and incumbency of central congress,everyone here is quite surprised.
We Dont Support a BJP Having Secular Outlook Like Kangress... we will never Support Reservation ... Or any Special Treatment to Minority...

We r Hindu Nationalist Party But we never Announce that Hindus will be Given Better opportunities or we will kill Muslims if we Come in Power or & will never do the Same ...

Other than that we r Not ready to Say That we will no longer a Hindu Nationalist Party ... Thats Not Possible

U people even Dont know the Meaning of Hindu Nationalism ... Our meaning of Hindu Nationalism is Defined By Great Madhav Sadashiv Golwalkarji sarsanghachalak of RSS... read it u will understand What is Defenition of Hindu Nationalism of BJP


Plzz do read it its very important ...

[non-religious, territorial loyalty...

As far as the national tradition of this land is concerned, it never considers that with a change in the method of worship, an individual ceases to be the son of the soil and should be treated as an alien. Here, in this land, there can be no objection to God being called by any name whatever. Ingrained in this soil is love and respect for all faiths and religious beliefs. He cannot be a son of this soil at all who is intolerant of other faiths.

"So, all that is expected of our Muslim and Christen co-citizens is the shedding of the notions of their being 'religious minorities' as also their foreign mental complexion and merging themselves in the common national stream of this soil." ]
 
Congress has left its center-left position (since 90s) and is a centrist party now, moving towards centre-right.
BJP is moving in opposite direction, and they look same mostly now.
Cant be clearer.
So you mean congress is moving towards RSS.
 
So you mean congress is moving towards RSS.
I think He is saying that congress is becoming more communal and Bjp is becoming more secular than say it was a decade ago..Now Both are at the same spot and its hard to distinguish between their ideology except one is dividing people on Muslim support base and other on hindutva support.
 
I dont blame BJP for taking ayodhya cause, hindus consist nearly 80 percent of population, and why should not their issues be on national politics.
The issue with BJP is they are anti minority, and they come from organization which has hindu supremacist agenda.

They did not stop with temple, they went on fighting with minorities everywhere.

Two hours before,Accusing BJP of Anti-minority,hindu supremacist agenda(Right-wing).
 
Any One Wanna know What Hindu Nationalism Means Please Read the Speeches of Great great in fact Greatest Hindu Nationalist Sarsanghchalak Madhav Sadashiv Golwalkar (Guruji)...

He has properly Defined the Term Hindutva & Hindu Nationalism ... All BJP-RSS & associated Group Follows it... For US he is just like Great Sage Agastya ...

& I have to get ready for Office now... Although its Holi today i have my Office ... Happy Holi to all u brothers... have a nice day...
 
@Nair Saab

Check out the MLAs in Karnataka, more than half of them are brought and paid by the miners lobby and have no ideological connection with the RSS. Infact, the BJP/RSS have compromised with their ideology to bring in rebels from other parties just so that they can come to power showing that they are like any other political party.

No one minds if the RSS wants to promote Hindu culture or values or even convert people to Hindusim. The problem is using these for a political purpose. If you want to promote Hindu culture peacefully without picking on minorities and not playing politics on it, then there is no reason to oppose these acts. When you start using it for politics, then the ideology goes out the window.
That is when you see groups like Ram Sene hoisting a Pakistani flag hoping that that will bring BJP victory in an election and that this way they will "save Hindus".

BJP leaders have recently tried to claim that BJP is infact a secular party. Afterall, not being secular is against the Indian constitution. And if you are an Indian, you swear an oath of loyalty to the constitition. If you try to subvert the constititon, then you are treated as a traitor in the court of law.
BJP only secular party in country Lastupdate:- Wed, 3 Aug 2011 18:30:00 GMT GreaterKashmir.com
BJP is inclusive and secular: Alphons - The Times of India

Ofcourse, you could say that these are just statements and you may be right.
What BJP is doing is unnecessarily depriving India of two national secular parties where people dont have to choose based on their identity politics but on the basis of economic policies.

The BJP has a section of non-RSS people who have centre-right economic policies and realist foreign policy experts who can really take the party to the next level. On the other hand, the RSS faction in the BJP pulls it into populist leftist economic policies like opposition to FDI and liberalisaition policies and a plank of Hindu nationalism that has less to do with Hindus and more to do with minorities.




And I would suggest you read the correspondence between Patel and Gowalkar and ofcouse his writings carefully on all matters. He praised the persecution of Jews as race pride at its highest. Is this something you would agree with? Even Mahatma Gandhi who was a devout Hindu and brought Hindu religion in every aspect of his life did not see these organisation as Hindu nationalist. Otherwise, he would have supported them as he had supported other Hindu organisations.


You should also read what Sardar Patel had to say on the Hindu Mahasabha leaders after the assasination in his letters of correspondece between himself and Gowalkar and between Nehru on that matter.
'Nehru wanted RSS banned, Patel wanted proof' - Rediff.com News
How did Sardar Patel and Pandit Nehru view the RSS and Hindu Mahasabha after Mahtma Gandhi's assassination? What course of action did each want to pursue?

Both Pandit Nehru and Sardar Patel held citizenship as the most important identity of a person. For them, the primordial identities of person, of belonging to one minority group or another should be, in the overall scheme of things, submerged within the identity of citizenship.

In another letter to the industry minister in the Nehru cabinet and Jana Sangh founder Shyama Prasad Mookerjee, Sardar Patel said, 'The RSS is like a militant group and there is no difference between the Hindu Mahasabha and the RSS. Both are hazards for the national security. We don't have concrete proof but it has been learnt that the leaders of Mahasabha had distributed sweets and had celebrated after the assassination of Gandhi.'



Gowalkar ofcourse later in discussion with Patel renounced his earlier positions where he opposed the independance movement under the INC, including the Indian tri colour and said that he now accepts the new Indian flag and consitition.

Similarly, if you take Sarvarkar's history, he considereed himself only a "cultural Hindu". He didn't agree with cow slaughter bans and ate beef, he opposed cremation when his wife died and supported Jinnah on the two nation theory who like himself was also a "cultural muslim"

And finally for those who think Congress "appeases muslims", you have to differentiate between demanding their due share and rights and appeasement. It was the Congress afterall that locked the Babri Masjid from being accessed by Muslims in 1950 and then re-opened it for the Shilinyas in the 80s. Cow slaughter ban bill was brought under the Congress and Digvijay Singh championed it in MP first. Infact, both Congress and BJP have indulged in competitive "Hindu appeasment" on the cow slaughter and other issues during the 1980s, 90s and early 2000s.
www.outlookindia.com | A Cow-Wardly Turn

When Gowalker started the petition for the Cowslaughter ban in the first place, it was more to do with embarassing the govt. Again a political objective and not a religious one
Why Golwalkar Started A Petition To Ban Cow Slaughter | outlook blogs

Compare this with Mahatma Gandhi's efforts where he wanted to lead a grass roots effort to get people to actually stop cow slaughtering voluntarily rather than forcing them to and he was able to get fatwas from Muslim clerics of his time to support him and to not slaughter cows to avoid hurting Hindu sentiments.






Like I said, where BJP runs on a developmental agenda like it did in Goa or Bihar where there were no "firebrand leaders" and the election campagin focussed on development, minority votes have been divided and even come to BJP too.

I have always explained that Muslims should reject the Islamotopia being bandied about political muslim nationalists who talk about Khilafat and implemntation of sharia because the most damage it will do is to Muslims and Islam on top of this act being UnIslamic in itself. Most of the people who actually support it don't come from traditional Islamic theological circles and are sudden converts to the cause who are bussinemen, doctors, lawyers e.t.c. We have seen that such groups cynically use Islam for the political ends and have no real devoting to Islamic principles. The biggest problem facing Muslims today on the issue of terrorism is an outgrowth of this ideology that has been promoted by different countries for the past 2-3 decades in various ways. And its time to put an end to this deviant ideology.

Similarly, it is only upto the Hindus alone to decide and reject the Hindu Rashtra utopia because eventually mixing politics with religion is disastrous for the politiy and religion. And devout Hindus would categorically reject such things. Ofcourse, BJP leaders like Advani have stated that India will never become a Hindu Rashtra and the BJP party itself has learned to focus on developmental issues rather than identity politics. So long term I am optimistic that BJP or some variation of it can emerge as an alternative national secular party that we sorely need as a counter to the Congress.
 
Here is a good article on the Indian voters and how they have matured but the political parties still seem to be stuck in the 90s

They just didn’t get it, writes Shekhar Gupta - Indian Express

India has changed. It will vote for those who understand, respect and embrace this change with humility, not hubris

Has Uttar Pradesh changed? That question will be asked often after this election. The state has given a clear verdict for the second time in a row. For two decades before this, it was a state of humongous size, and uncrossable divides of religion, caste, region and even party politics: unlike neighbouring Bihar which, though similar in political demography, has more or less two clear alliances in contention rather than UP’s four-way contests. Further, the two parties that won these clear verdicts (BSP in 2007 and SP now) would normally be described (and dismissed) as mere caste-based parties with limited identity-driven agendas and inelastic appeal. They are bitter rivals. But in devastating both Congress and BJP, they have shown a political genius that the larger national parties have lacked. But would these two successive clear verdicts have been possible if UP had not changed? The answer has to be no, and for a long time there hasn’t been better news for India. It also follows that while the voter in UP has changed, breaking out of the horrible Mandal-Kamandal trap, the two national parties have stayed right there. They are being made to pay for this lack of imagination, this intellectual laziness.

So, what else is new about this verdict, in UP, and elsewhere too? First of all, it has again highlighted to us the perils of contemptuously stereotyping communities and ethnicities as dumb vote banks. Muslims, in particular, have been treated shoddily by political intellectuals of the left and religious right. In 2008, both said that any party supporting the Indo-US nuclear deal would lose the Muslim vote. As if our Muslims somehow put their anti-Americanism above their nationalism and issues like bijli-sadak-paani, jobs, what kind of schools their children go to and whether there are any doctors or medicines in their hospitals or not. Mulayam Singh defied the protesting maulanas to weigh in for the nuclear deal. Now, he has this stunning endorsement by his Muslim voters to show for it. Similarly, Rahul’s ill-advised reminder of the BJP’s Israel connection left his Muslim audiences utterly unimpressed. Definition of identity is complex in India. Modern Indians, rural or urban, have common needs and shared concerns that cut across barriers of caste and religion.

You want to stereotype the Hindu majority, ask the BJP, so deflated after today’s result. It thought Congress had answered its prayers by playing that suicidal Muslim reservation card and brought out vicious advertisements reminding Hindus that their jobs were being taken away and given to Muslims by way of an electoral bribe. If any of the Hindus were impressed, they obviously did not come out to vote. Similarly, you want to profile the Dalits purely in terms of empowerment? They should then have been thrilled with Mayawati’s memorials and the crassness of the way she exercised power. If they were, would they have broken rank with her and reduced her to 79 seats? You will pay severely for stereotyping the poor as well, by telling all they need is free food and only you can get it to them. You cannot treat an entire mass of poor Indians as beggars. Particularly not when they are so impatient in the course of such a remarkable upsurge of aspiration. You presume rural India is peopled by hapless beggars, you will be made to pay for the folly. It may be the deeply held belief of some South Delhi bleeding hearts that feed off the Congress Party gravy train, and some Rajya Sabhaist free-loaders on it. But ask them to go out and get some votes first. Rural India is not inhabited by tens of crores of beggars.

Finally, five states went to the polls today, and four gave clear verdicts, confirming yet another welcome trend. Our voter is no longer confused. Nor is she a prisoner of narrow-focus prejudices and loyalties. She now reads the big picture: agendas, track records, and what’s-in-it-for-me-and- for-my-children’s future. That is why verdict after verdict, you get the same message. That our elections are now becoming increasingly meritocratic. That is why it is not so important who wins or loses. Because it isn’t just Uttar Pradesh that has changed. India has changed. It will vote for those who understand, respect and embrace this change with humility, not hubris.
 
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