Pentagon’s big budget F-35 fighter ‘can’t turn, can’t climb, can’t run’

[Hakan]

The F-35 is great but the delays and high costs gave it a bad image. Unfortunately we will be getting our first aircraft in 2018, by that time russia will most likely be equipped with the PAK Fa.

 

[F-22Raptor]

The F-35 is great but the delays and high costs gave it a bad image. Unfortunately we will be getting our first aircraft in 2018, by that time russia will most likely be equipped with the PAK Fa.

The program is frustrating, but you have to remember this is the most complex aircraft program in history. Lockheed Martin is developing 3 separate variants with absurdly sophisticated avionics and sensors. Delays were inevitable....

The Pakfa had a catastrophic right engine failure just the week prior to the F-35 incident. They only have 5 aircraft, which has been cut down to 4 for the time being, while there are 100 F-35s in service right now. The Russians still have massive problems with their own program. Even if Pakfas are operational in 2018(which I'm skeptical of), they won't be in significant numbers.

 

[Hakan]

The program is frustrating, but you have to remember this is the most complex aircraft program in history. Lockheed Martin is developing 3 separate variants with absurdly sophisticated avionics and sensors. Delays were inevitable....

The Pakfa had a catastrophic right engine failure just the week prior to the F-35 incident. They only have 5 aircraft, which has been cut down to 4 for the time being, while there are 100 F-35s in service right now. The Russians still have massive problems with their own program. Even if Pakfas are operational in 2018(which I'm skeptical of), they won't be in significant numbers.

Thats an important point. Everyone is opening threads about the F-35 but not the PAK Fa. I wonder why?

 

[airmarshal]

F-35 is quite an epic failure.

 

[F-22Raptor]

Thats an important point. Everyone is opening threads about the F-35 but not the PAK Fa. I wonder why?

I've repeatedly said the same thing. The F-35 problems are front page stories, while the Pakfas are swept under the rug. I just think there's an underlying jealously, and some people want to see the US fail.

 

[Aepsilons]

I've repeatedly said the same thing. The F-35 problems are front page stories, while the Pakfas are swept under the rug. I just think there's an underlying jealously, and some people want to see the US fail.

An example of envy, i dare say. Only the big boys can muster the capital to purchase F-35s in high numbers. But I am positive that the prices should go down when full scale production goes up.

100.

Turkeys Acquisition of The F-35 JSF

An impressive amount, and a great decision for Turkey. Long may your country be Lords of the sky in the greater Middle East region.

 

[jhgmbv]

can pakistan make such fighters.if we adopt scientific thinking in our daily lives and avoid muslim fundamentalisim.and improve our english.

 

[HariPrasad]

Pentagon’s big budget F-35 fighter ‘can’t turn, can’t climb, can’t run’
By David Axe

JULY 14, 2014

• Americans should be worried.
  
  The U.S. military has grounded all its new F-35 Joint Strike Fighters following an incident on June 23, when one of the high-tech warplanes caught fire on the runway of a Florida air base. The no-fly order — which affects at least 50 F-35s at training and test bases in Florida, Arizona, California and Maryland — began on the evening of July 3 and continued through July 11.
  
  All those F-35s sitting idle could be a preview of a future in which potentially thousands of the Pentagon’s warplanes can’t reliably fly.
  
  To be fair, the Pentagon routinely grounds warplanes on a temporary basis following accidents and malfunctions to buy investigators time to identify problems and to give engineers time to fix them.
  
  But there’s real reason to worry. The June incident might reflect serious design flaws that could render the F-35 unsuitable for combat.
  
  For starters, the Lockheed Martin-built F-35 — which can avoid sensor detection thanks to its special shape and coating — simplydoesn’t work very well. The Pentagon has had to temporarily ground F-35s no fewer than 13 times since 2007, mostly due to problems with the plane’s Pratt & Whitney-made F135 engine, in particular, with the engines’ turbine blades. The stand-downs lasted at most a few weeks.
  
  “The repeated problems with the same part of the engine may be indications of a serious design and structural problem with the F135 engine,” said Johan Boeder, a Dutch aerospace expert and editor of the online publication JSF News.
  
  Pratt & Whitney has already totally redesigned the F135 in an attempt to end its history of frequent failures. But there’s only so much engineers can do. In a controversial move during the early stages of the F-35′s development, the Pentagon decided to fit the plane with one engine instead of two. Sticking with one motor can help keep down the price of a new plane. But in the F-35′s case, the decision proved self-defeating.
  
  That’s because the F-35 is complex — the result of the Air Force, Marines and Navy all adding features to the basic design. In airplane design, such complexity equals weight. The F-35 is extraordinarily heavy for a single-engine plane, weighing as much as 35 tons with a full load of fuel.
  
  By comparison, the older F-15 fighter weighs 40 tons. But it has two engines. To remain reasonably fast and maneuverable, the F-35′s sole F135 engine must generate no less than 20 tons of thrust — making it history’s most powerful fighter motor.
  
  All that thrust results in extreme levels of stress on engine components. It’s no surprise, then, that the F-35 frequently suffers engine malfunctions. Even with that 20 tons of thrust, the new radar-dodging plane is still sluggish. The F-35 “is a dog … overweight and underpowered,” according to Winslow Wheeler, director of the Straus Military Reform Project at the Project on Government Oversight in Washington.
  
  In 2008, two analysts at the RAND Corporation, a California think-tank that works closely with the military, programmed a computer simulation to test out the F-35′s fighting ability in a hypothetical air war with China. The results were startling.
  
  “The F-35 is double-inferior,” John Stillion and Harold Scott Perdue concluded in their written summary of the war game, later leaked to the press. The new plane “can’t turn, can’t climb, can’t run,” they warned.
  
  Yet the F-35 is on track to become by far the military’s most numerous warplane. It was designed to replace almost all current fighters in the Air Force and Marine Corps and complement the Navy’s existing F/A-18 jets. The Pentagon plans to acquire roughly 2,400 of the radar-evading F-35s in coming decades, at a cost of more than $400 billion.
  
  Like it or not, the stealthy F-35 is the future of U.S. air power. There are few alternatives. Lockheed Martin’s engineers have done millions of man-hours of work on the design since development began in the 1990s. Starting work on a new plane now would force the Defense Department to wait a decade or more, during which other countries might pull ahead in jet design. Russia, China and Japan are all working on new stealth fightermodels.
  
  The Pentagon sounds guardedly optimistic about the current F-35 grounding. “Additional inspections of F-35 engines have been ordered,” Rear Admiral John Kirby, a military spokeman said, “and return to flight will be determined based on inspection results and analysis of engineering data.”
  
  Minor fixes might get America’s future warplane flying again soon — for a while. But fundamental design flaws could vex the F-35 for decades to come, forcing the Pentagon to suspend flying far too often for the majority of its fighter fleet, potentially jeopardizing U.S. national security.

US is more than capable to handle and address all the problems and make F 35 a deadly fight worthy plane.

 

[OrionHunter]

can’t turn, can’t climb, can’t run

BUT

it can expel air from its rear like no other fighter in history

Epic! This made my day!!

 

[HariPrasad]

The F-35 trolls will have egg on their face when this aircraft steamrolls through every potential adversary out there. The F-117,
F-15, and F-16 were all blasted at one point or another, and were proven to be dominant platforms. The F-35 will be no different. Adversaries that underestimate this aircraft do so at their own risk.

Yes F 35 shall be a real killer. Recently I read the news that new engine with 20% more power was tested in US. Since US and India are democracy, we discuss our issues freely. Our adversary get happy and cheers. On the contrary, country like china terms their plane as batter than Su 35, F22 killer right from the first day it flies. How ever the fact is that none of hyped plane of china has capability to remotely match even F16.

 

[Genesis]

Yes F 35 shall be a real killer. Recently I read the news that new engine with 20% more power was tested in US. Since US and India are democracy, we discuss our issues freely. Our adversary get happy and cheers. On the contrary, country like china terms their plane as batter than Su 35, F22 killer right from the first day it flies. How ever the fact is that none of hyped plane of china has capability to remotely match even F16.

well maybe when you have a fighter you can suck too, but at this point, the option of sucking is not even...an option.

 

[MastanKhan]

An example of envy, i dare say. Only the big boys can muster the capital to purchase F-35s in high numbers. But I am positive that the prices should go down when full scale production goes up.



An impressive amount, and a great decision for Turkey. Long may your country be Lords of the sky in the greater Middle East region.

Hi,

Yeah & those big boys are gonna be paying thru their noses for the upkeep of these aircrft.

The F15's and F16's never had these massive problems and setbacks---they started as basic aircrft and evolved in due time---. For the F35---too many different versions of this aircrft are being built at the same time at too many different places---quality control will always be an issue.

Now this issue about the engine blades or something scarpping against the frame!!!!

 

[Indos]

There are no other alternatives for Turkey. At this point in time it is the only stealth airplane we have access to until the TF-X Project is completed.

The situation sucks but its the reality.

I have a suggestion for Turkey friends, ( I hope high ranking official visit this site regularly and read my post here). Why don't you take 10 planes first, and try it. No need to rush into a 100 pieces where there are still many questions hanging every where now about this specific plane. We all know that Turkey F-16 planes are many, and they are quite capable fighter to face any threat until 10 years to come. Thus, It is better to put the money into TFX program and other tech development ones like turbofan. Too much reliance on USA is also not a good option, as you also have Israel as another future threat. What will happen if you have a war with Israel ? 100 expensive planes will be a rubbish if USA wants to. We already have a bad experience with USA embargo regarding East Timor conflict, and it can be a good lesson for any body here.

Beside that, I believe that political influence is a number one reason of why so many US Allies take part in this program. The real diplomacy statement of USA in which all its allies understand is that "buy my planes here or I will not protect your nation anymore."

In my opinion, there should be some people opposition in Turkey against this project, so it will give more political help for Turkey leadership to avoid continuing this program.

 

[As is - where is]

The F-35 does better in BVR combat anyway. You don't need to turn, climb and run when you can shoot down your opponent before he even sees you in his radar. And it's not exactly a flying brick in a dogfight either, although optimally it would not engage in one against a 4th generation aircraft.

 

[New]

Funny posts here,
US members here seem delusional about this project.
And those who have ordered a purchase in big numbers are not even capable to comprehend what have they invested in?
Investing on this fighter is the lamest thing to do for Turkey or Japan or any other country.
What Americans are busy doing right know is working on sidelong technologies gainable through this project.
You guys have just paid for them to gain the needed technology.
And I am telling you guys, In 2025 UAVs are ruling the skies, UAVs that are under development right at this moment by your money, and all you guys have in that moment are a bunch of luxury junks.
You guys wana believe it or not, But machines will rule the skies in the coming decade.