Pentagon: Chinese military spending exceeds $145 billion in 2013

[zeronet]

even $145 billion, as US estimated, is only 1.6% of GDP, much lower than most big countries. Any arms race with china is stupid and finally goes china's edge.

 

[1ong1ong]

What is this in PPP numbers? Considering that China's PPP GDP is fast approaching that of the Americans.

Surpassed already.
China is No.1 in PPP GDP measure now.

 

[tonyget]

We need a defence budget at 3% of GDP, and the future increased part should put to R&D and equipment.

The technology from military R&D can be transfered to civilian application. It will not be a burden to economy.

In China, R&D expense is not counted in defence budget

 

[Beidou2020]

Whats important is the accumulated military spending. Just like how you measure the size of an economy by the accumulated stock of GDP over time. Per year military spending just captures that particular year and does not count all the previous years of military spending.

According to SIPRI website the accumulated military spending since 1988 (constant dollars) of the US has been $14.2 trillion and China during the same time has spent $1.8 trillion.

In current dollars the US spent $10.9 trillion and China spent $1.3 trillion.

They have the data only from 1988.

 

[Aepsilons]

China's military spending exceeded $145 billion last year as it advanced a program modernizing an arsenal of drones, warships, jets, missiles and cyber weapons, the Pentagon said on Thursday, offering a far higher figure than Beijing's official tally.

The Pentagon's estimate, using 2013 prices and exchange rates, was 21 percent above the $119.5 billion figure announced by China. It was detailed in an annual report to Congress that cited steady progress in Chinese defense capabilities.

It acknowledged that estimating Chinese spending can be difficult, in part because of "poor accounting transparency and incomplete transition from a command economy."

China's Defense Ministry, in a statement on its website, said it was "resolutely opposed" to the Pentagon report.

Chinese military spending exceeds $145 billion, drones advanced: U.S.| Reuters

Its good to see the Chinese Armed Forces develop its capability by increasing defense expenditure(s). I'm sure it will be used to modernize , as well as for the maintenance of its secure land border(s) and maritime activities. We look forward to working with our Chinese counterparts in maintaining a peaceful, stable Greater East Asia.

In China, R&D expense is not counted in defence budget

Of course. Also, what is not included is the Black Budget. The same also applies for us in the JSDF.

 

[applesauce]

take military spending with a grain of salt. every country counts it differently. for instance, china doesnt count most of its R and D in its military budget, the US doesnt count war spending in places like iraq and afganistan in its military budget, and of course there is black project spending in both countries and no one is sure of the costs

 

[english_man]

When i look at all the numerous military equipment programmes in China............its clear that despite lower costs in that country, China must be spending more money than they announce publicly on their defence. I mean its become almost a game each year in March when China announces its defence budget......because the figure can be guessed by most military enthusiasts, as the yearly increase is between 7.5-10%.
Some Chinese, think they dont spend enough..........but if it came down to it, the Chinese are the only ones with any real money reserves these days, and could easily increase their military spending by a large margin.........if the need was ever reqd!

 

[sword1947]

Pentagon want more in the new year

 

[UKBengali]

When i look at all the numerous military equipment programmes in China............its clear that despite lower costs in that country, China must be spending more money than they announce publicly on their defence. I mean its become almost a game each year in March when China announces its defence budget......because the figure can be guessed by most military enthusiasts, as the yearly increase is between 7.5-10%.
Some Chinese, think they dont spend enough..........but if it came down to it, the Chinese are the only ones with any real money reserves these days, and could easily increase their military spending by a large margin.........if the need was ever reqd!

I think the Chinese are spending the bare minimum on inducting arms, that they know are not as good as the US/West, and focusing a lot of money on R&D. Even after 10 years they have only inducted 300 J-10s when they could have been near the thousand mark. Also remember Chinese R&D cost will be a fraction of what it would cost in the US.

In a nutshell, they are spending a large amount of their budget to develop weapons that would finally be competitive and only buying the bare minimum of current weapons which they know are inferior to US/West.

 

[conworldus]

What is this in PPP numbers? Considering that China's PPP GDP is fast approaching that of the Americans.

PPP is meaningless. It is useful only in measuring services (haircut, e.g).

 

[kbd-raaf]

PPP is meaningless. It is useful only in measuring services (haircut, e.g).

Most of China's military is produced domestically and all Chinese soldiers are paid in domestic currency. A $5000 salary for a Chinese grunt is equivalent to a $25000 American one.

 

[conworldus]

Most of China's military is produced domestically and all Chinese soldiers are paid in domestic currency. A $5000 salary for a Chinese grunt is equivalent to a $25000 American one.

Labor is a small percentage in the manufacturing process. The material you use to make the weapons, such as steel, etc... and running expenses such as petro are all traded internationally and hence, cannot be calculated with PPP. That's why PPP is meaningless unless you measure services, such as haircut, which cost less in China than the US. A barrel of crude cost just as much in China as the US.

 

[j20blackdragon]

Labor is a small percentage in the manufacturing process. The material you use to make the weapons, such as steel, etc... and running expenses such as petro are all traded internationally and hence, cannot be calculated with PPP. That's why PPP is meaningless unless you measure services, such as haircut, which cost less in China than the US. A barrel of crude cost just as much in China as the US.

You have it backwards. The raw materials/commodities cost is a small percentage of the total cost when it comes to complex military components. It's the labor and manufacturing processes that are more expensive.

Take the F-35B's aluminum bulkhead as an example. Does anyone want to argue the materials cost of the aluminum is more than the labor and overhead costs to forge the bulkhead?

These empty soft drink cans are also aluminum.

 

[conworldus]

You have it backwards. The raw materials/commodities cost is a small percentage of the total cost when it comes to complex military components. It's the labor and manufacturing processes that are more expensive.

Take the F-35B's aluminum bulkhead as an example. Does anyone want to argue the materials cost of the aluminum is more than the labor and overhead costs to forge the bulkhead?

View attachment 51155

These empty soft drink cans are also aluminum.

View attachment 51156

First of all, the F-35 aluminum is of totally different alloy. It is an aluminum based alloy, but different from a soda can. You need expensive refinery process, and then expensive robotic, laser machinery to create the frame. So, no, mineral itself is free, but the machines that would require to make them into their shapes cost billions. These machines cost the same in China and USA. Also the maintaining of these machines, which require parts, oil, laser heads etc, also need to be priced at international price. Again, labor is a very small percentage.

Take Boeing for example. Its 2013 labor count is 169,000, and the total salary per head, at 100,000 dollars a year, would tally the total labor cost at 16.9 billion. Boeing's 2013 revenue is 89 billion and operating profit is at 7 billion, so the cost is 81 billion. Do you think 16.9 billion is a huge percentage?

 

[j20blackdragon]

These machines cost the same in China and USA.

This is where we disagree. For example, China's 80,000 metric ton forging press is the only one in the world. How do you know it cost the same in the USA? Everything needed to maintain the machine is labor and overhead, which is all done in China. The only situation where international prices become relevant is when China imported something.