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Peace with Pakistan: an idea whose time has passed

MARK MY WORDS THIS IS ONE FRNDSHIP TAT WILL PULL INDIA BACKWARDS

I AM NOT TRYING TO BE HATE MONGER BUT THIS IS TRUTH

REMEMBER WE ARE NOT SEPARATED OLY BY TERITTORIAL DISPUTE

TEY SAY NA CHOOSE UR FRNDS WISELY ;THIS FRNDSHIP IS LIKE ONE OF THOSE

AND THIS IMPLIES TO BOTH AS OUR SOCIETY IS DIFF FROM THEIRS

WE JUST CANT BLEND TOGETHER YES WE CAN ADJUST,BUT ADJUSTMENT CANT BE DONE LONG ENOUGH
 
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well he made some sense................how to go for "Aman ki Asha etc things" when terrorist groups are openly holding rallies in Pakistan and threatening India?????

I don't know what you're going on about here, but if you're referring to the usual Hafiz Saeed issue, one can ask why Modi was re-elected Chief minister after sponsoring the murder of thousands of people in Gujrat. And as for terrorism, we know full well about Indian involvement in bomb blasts, terror and killings in Baluchistan and FATA. But I don't think the GoP believes in crying about it. We are killing large numbers of these foreign funded agents and will eliminate them.

The reason why I am against talks with India at the moment is because there is no compelling underlying reason for it. Do we expect a break-through on *the* core issue of Kashmir? If not, then we should simply continue down the path we re going. We've already got the upper hand in Afghanistan, we've quelled and eliminated in large part, foreign agents acting on our soil and we have been able to effectively maneuver diplomatically. For example, managing to have India excluded from the Afghanistan conference in Turkey.

Do you think in such circumstances India should talk to rouge neighbour

I am not interested in advising India, but I know Pakistan should certainly not be talking to India at this time. I am confident that our Foreign Office will come up with an effective strategy of posturing in a friendly but firm manner, but then terminating these talks as soon as there are signs of the historical intransigence on core issues. The sooner we get to that point, the better. Much better things to do with our diplomats' time.
 
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I don't know what you're going on about here, but if you're referring to the usual Hafiz Saeed issue, one can ask why Modi was re-elected Chief minister after sponsoring the murder of thousands of people in Gujrat. And as for terrorism, we know full well about Indian involvement in bomb blasts, terror and killings in Baluchistan and FATA. But I don't think the GoP believes in crying about it. We are killing large numbers of these foreign funded agents and will eliminate them.

The reason why I am against talks with India at the moment is because there is no compelling underlying reason for it. Do we expect a break-through on *the* core issue of Kashmir? If not, then we should simply continue down the path we re going. We've already got the upper hand in Afghanistan, we've quelled and eliminated in large part, foreign agents acting on our soil and we have been able to effectively maneuver diplomatically. For example, managing to have India excluded from the Afghanistan conference in Turkey.



I am not interested in advising India, but I know Pakistan should certainly not be talking to India at this time. I am confident that our Foreign Office will come up with an effective strategy of posturing in a friendly but firm manner, but then terminating these talks as soon as there are signs of the historical intransigence on core issues. The sooner we get to that point, the better. Much better things to do with our diplomats' time.

Modi has made Gujarat the fastest growing state in India. There is no proof he had anything to do with the riot. http://dailypioneer.com/200856/%E2%80%98Communal%E2%80%99-Modi-spent-more-on-Muslim-welfare.html

There is no proof that India has anything to do with insurgencies in Pakistan, while there is plenty that Pakistan fuels insurgencies in Kashmir.

You do not have an upper hand in Afghanistan. The Afghani people love us and hate you.

What makes you think it was Pakistani diplomacy that got India excluded in Turkey?
 
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MARK MY WORDS THIS IS ONE FRNDSHIP TAT WILL PULL INDIA BACKWARDS

As I see it , it maybe impossible for this generation to develop any kind of concensus over Kashmir and hence attain peace.

Our generation has been through Kargil , know stories of wars fought over 40 years and remember these terrorist attacks.

For me the peace can only be achieved when:

1. Pakistan stops breeding terrorism . If India is doing it she should stop it before Pakistan does. Hum log dushmani main bhi ek sharafat rakhtein hain aur woh rehni chahiye.

2. Pakistan stops breeding hatred esp. through books and god knows what all. India should stop sounding like a big brother although is a lot of areas we do overwhelm them just by shear numbers.

3. Pakistan should come out of inferiority complex and India should come out of superiority complex.

4. We have short memories when it comes to bad experiences and forget wrong doings of politicians very easily. Though the scars of partition run very deep I am confident if there is no war between these two nations for the next 50 years, maybe then we can talk of peace.

All 1 to 4 should be met before we talk of any peace..

Till then time... Rest In Peace
 
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Peace with Pakistan: Chasing a mirage: Rediff.com India News


Peace with Pakistan is not possible in the foreseeable future. Those charged with the responsibility to safeguard our country and its citizens will do well to get a reality check and devise our defence posture accordingly, writes Colonel Dr Anil Athale (retd).

The frozen peace process between India and Pakistan is in the news, again. A joint peace campaign has been started by an Indian and a Pakistani news organisation and a Bollywood star has jumped into the fray by regretting that Pakistani cricketers were not picked for the Indian Premier League [ Images ].

This ought to provide the Indian government and people an opportunity to take stock. After all the peace process, started in 1999 with Atal Bihari Vajpayee's [ Images ] famous bus ride to Lahore [ Images ], is over 10 years old. This is a good occasion to take a dispassionate look at the past 10 years.

But before we go into the subject proper, it is necessary to kill the nonsensical notion of 'keeping sports above politics'. The Bollywood star seems to have taken time out from his busy schedule of peddling men's fairness cream and junk food to take up the case of Pakistani cricketers. The usual suspect, the politically-correct media, has jumped on the bandwagon and there is an outcry. This seems to be a case of collective amnesia. For over two decades South Africa [ Images ] faced a sports boycott by most of the world. India was an enthusiastic cheerleader in this. Yes, apartheid was wrong, and so is jihadi terrorism!

Even as some cry foul over the boycott of Pakistani players, most of the Arab and Muslim world merrily continue their boycott of Israeli sportspersons. Pakistan was at the forefront of boycotting the Moscow [ Images ] Olympics [ Images ] of 1980.

My research trip to South Africa recently brought home the fact that sports boycotts hurt, and hurt badly. Why does Pakistani society not introspect and root out the extremists in their midst?

The funny part is that our Bollywood star goes on to claim that as per Indian tradition 'Atithi Devo Bhava' (the guest is like God), he is pained that we are not honouring 'guests' from across our western border. He seems to have forgotten that just about a year and two months ago, 10 'guests' from the same country came to Mumbai [ Images ] and massacred nearly 180 people.

While the media asks all and sundry, why not ask the thousands of relatives of victims of the 26/11 terror attacks as to what they feel about inviting Pakistani players when even now the mastermind Hafeez Saeed is free to continue to spread his hate ideology? I am quite conscious that I am in the company of a certain political party, but well, even they can be right sometimes.

The root cause

In June-July 2006, I participated in the goodwill mission between Mumbai and Karachi. Within a few days of our return from a goodwill trip to Karachi, the terrorists struck at Mumbai's local trains on July 11, killing more than 200 innocent people. But such is public memory in India that it has been forgotten totally. The pseudo-peaceniks and sundry busybodies now want Indians to forget the 26/11 Mumbai attacks and continue the peace process with Pakistan.

Let me hasten to add that we met a lot of people of goodwill and peace in Pakistan. But most of them were part of the elite. There is no doubt about their sincerity as well. But there is a total disconnect between the elite and the masses. The biggest problem in the case of Pakistan is that civil society has very little influence over either the masses or the government.

The argument then was and today is -- the jihadis want to derail the peace process, that is why they are doing it but we must continue with normal relations, sporting ties, cultural exchanges et al. All this while the Pakistanis deny any connection/responsibility towards these atrocities. I do not buy this argument. If the peace process is not capable of bringing about these minimum conditions, then it is useless. I publicly disassociated myself from this pointless exercise.

We have had cultural exchanges, people to people contacts, sports ties and government level talks for over 11 years now (beginning with Vajpayee's Lahore bus trip), yet the terror attacks inspired from across the border have continued. Pakistani state and civil society remain as hostile as ever, barring a minor fringe of the candlelight brigade. Pakistanis are forever in a denial mode.

Due to the courage of Tukaram Omble of the Mumbai police, we managed to catch one terrorist alive during the Mumbai attacks. If this did not happen, the Pakistanis would have continued to deny any role in the attacks. What Pakistan needs is a major surgery, while we are trying to apply bandaid. I do not think the Indians who advocate peace and normalcy have any understanding of the root cause of all this, that is the systematic brainwashing of their young students with hate for the last 20 years.

The dark forces in Pakistan

At a chief ministers' conference in Delhi [ Images ] (February 7), the home minister and prime minister mentioned that there are 'dark forces' working in Pakistan to commit crimes against India and destabilise Pakistan in order to take over that country. What are these forces and how strong and widespread is their influence is an issue that needs serious attention.

In 1986, while working for my PhD on regional security, I sought an answer to this very question. I had then got in touch with our military advisor at Islamabad [ Images ], Brigadier D K Khanna (who later retired as lieutenant general) to have a look at the kind of history that is being taught to Pakistani schoolchildren. To my eternal gratitude, he sent me the text books published by Hijari Publications Lahore. (Muajshrati Aloom, prescribed for VI & VII standards and Tehrik E Pakistan by Professor Mohammed Aslam for IX & X standards). These are in Urdu script, so while posted in Kashmir [ Images ] I got them translated and transcribed on tape. The contents were revealing. To cut a story short -- the books had created an image of 'Hindu India' forever scheming the downfall of Islam and Pakistan.

This is the staple hate diet on which the post Zia-ul Haq generation has been brought up. Curiously, the fictional history takes the existence of Pakistan to the pre-Christ period and omits even Alexander's raid and Porus's heroic resistance. It dismisses a period of 2,000 years between the Mohenjodaro civilisation of 3500 BC and Mohammad bin Qasim's invasion of Sindh as 'myths and legends'. This was Zia's gift to Pakistan. It must be remembered that we are not talking of madrasas -- this is in regular government-run schools!

While in the ministry of defence, I wrote about this 'root cause' of Pakistani hostility in a strategic analysis for the ministry in 1988. This was possibly noted and taken up at the prime ministers' level in December 1988 and in a declaration in Islamabad by Rajiv Gandhi [ Images ] and Benazir Bhutto [ Images ] it was accepted that both countries will revise their textbooks to remove biases. It was typical of the Indian weakness of trying to mollify the Pakistanis. For in India, there are no textbooks that denigrate Islam. But soon thereafter, both the prime ministers lost power and the whole issue was forgotten. It was only revived in 2004 under General Pervez Musharraf [ Images ].

On my part I took up this issue with Professor A H Nayyar (of Pakistan) at a world peace meet in Melbourne [ Images ] in December 1998. To the credit of Professor Nayyar and Professor Parvez Hoodbhoy, they have been working at it. But such is the opposition that I do not know to what extent they have succeeded. In any case, even if the curriculum reform takes place now, the results will be visible only after 20 years. But what is the world to do now with Zia's fanatic children?

I do feel vindicated that I raised this issue of effects of this indoctrination with the director (near east and South Asia) at the US National Security Council, Sandy Charles, on July 17, 1991. I had carried a copy of my 1988 article and pleaded with her that in another 20 years time as this generation comes of age, it will threaten not just India but the US as well.

The reason to elaborate on all this history is to drive home the point that fanaticism in Pakistan is widespread and deep-rooted. There is no organised effort to counter the ideology of hate.

Paraphrasing a Mao dictum, the jihadis survive since they swim in a pond of fanatics. Without the latter, like fish out of water, the jihadis would not survive.

What it also means is that even if an odd Hafeez Saeed is prosecuted, the jihadi mentality will survive. It is amusing to how frequently the Indian media talks of 'mastermind' of terror etc. Like the legendary Ahi Rawan Mahi Rawan, even if one demon is slayed more will be created from each drop of his blood.

This then comes to the surface in a Sohail Tanvir [ Images ] interview in which he blames Hindus for the IPL snub or sundry comments by Imran Khan [ Images ].

Many well-meaning Indians talk of peace based on a shared culture and history. Does the average Pakistani accept this? Pakistan has assiduously constructed a wholly Islamist view of history, culture and even ethnicity over the last 60 years. Do the people dreaming of 'Aman Ki Asha' even realise this?

Peace with Pakistan will remain a mirage for the foreseeable future. Those charged with the responsibility to safeguard our country and its citizens will do well to get a reality check and devise our defence posture accordingly. One can't but quote an old George Washington saying, 'If you want peace, be prepared for war!'

Colonel Dr Anil Athale (retd) is coordinator of the Pune-based Inpad and a Chhattrapati Shivaji Fellow working on insurgency.

Colonel Dr Anil Athale (retd)
 
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A war is unevitable b/w Pak-istan & india....


It's time for bearing a BLACK flag instead of WHITE flag....

Na’im, son of Hammad in al-Fitan, reports that Abu Huraira said
that the Messenger of Allah mentioned India and said: “A group
of you will conquer India. Allah will open (India) for them until
they come with its kings chained — Allah having forgiven their
sins — when they return (from India), they will find the son of
Mary in Syria.”(Kitab Al Fitan)



===========================

Nostradamus wrote his dreams in 1555...

The deep entry(indo-pak region) made by the great Queen
will make the place powerful and inaccessible;
the army of the three lions will be defeated(in indo-pak region)
causing within a thing hideous and terrible.


The prince(Eesa/Jesus) who has little pity of mercy
will come through death(Eesa escapes death) to change (and become) very knowledgeable.
The kingdom will be attended with great tranquillity,
when the great one will soon be fleeced."


==================

Here's that army of three lions....


(1)Indian national symbol is "Three Lions" (Official Link)
(2)Indian secret agency R.A.W's symbol is also 3 Lions.(Source)
(3)Indian passports have 3 Lions on it. (source)


Prophet Muhammad(saww) said that a Muslim army will defeat india & when that army will return , it will find Eesa(pbuh) in Syria.
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"Nostradamus" repeated this story in around year 1555 that "an army of three lions will be defeated" ......
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Indian Passport
f519cd82032e0775bbb3c9907b741182.jpg


Research and Analysis Wing (RA.W.) indian secret agency
 
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A war is unevitable b/w Pak-istan & india....


It's time for bearing a BLACK flag instead of WHITE flag....

Na’im, son of Hammad in al-Fitan, reports that Abu Huraira said
that the Messenger of Allah mentioned India and said: “A group
of you will conquer India. Allah will open (India) for them until
they come with its kings chained — Allah having forgiven their
sins — when they return (from India), they will find the son of
Mary in Syria.”(Kitab Al Fitan)


Yes most definitely.. and what is this.. Ghazwa - e - forking - hind

Kya bhasad macha rakhi hai.. Humne chudiyan pahen rakhi hain kya..

jao pehle economy sudharo fir ladai karne aana.. abhi conventional war sustain karne ki capability nahi hai tumhare pass..
 
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I added some more stuff to my post... some more good-tidings for u...

Yes most definitely.. and what is this.. Ghazwa - e - forking - hind..Kya bhasad macha rakhi hai.. Humne chudiyan pahen rakhi hain kya..

Hum churian pehnay huoon kooo waisay bhee kuch nahi kehtay.... Baghair churion walo say doo haath hooon gey... InshALLAH

...abhi conventional war sustain karne ki capability nahi hai tumhare pass..
313 defeated 1000 in 1st islamic war... Most of wars muslims faught, they were outnumbered by enemy... Period.
 
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well i dont like to say this generally

but we too have kalki avatar which will destroy injustice done to bharath

hence u can have ur gazwa e hind and we have our kalki avatar

and if ur talkin about nostradamus then isnt prophet told u not to follow anyone except allah
 
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Modi has made Gujarat the fastest growing state in India. There is no proof he had anything to do with the riot.

Modi is a right-wing terrorist enabler and has more blood on his hands than Hafiz Saeed is even accused of having. You can deny it all you want, but there is so much overwhelming evidence against Modi, including testimony in court, stances taken by foreign governments on denying him entry on account of his role in Gujarat, reports by international human rights commissions etc. that your denial simply destroys your credibility.

As a comment on the prevalent extremism present in society, you only have to consider that a man like this was re-elected after he oversaw the murder of over 2,000 muslims, the rape of hundreds of innocent women and dozens of incidents in which gasoline was poured down the throats of muslim women and children before they were set alight. Modi has not once apologized for anything. Do you really want to defend such a man?

US denies Modi visa as he is deemed to have been responsible for Gujarat riots

Modi denied visa to visit US

The Act prohibits anybody who was 'responsible for, or directly carried out, at any time, particularly severe violations of religious freedom' from entering the US.

From the foreign policy journal, The New Atlantic

Meet Narendra Modi, chief minister of Gujarat and the brightest star in the Hindu-chauvinist Bharatiya Janata Party. Under Modi, Gujarat has become an economic dynamo. But he also presided over India’s worst communal riots in decades, a 2002 slaughter that left almost 2,000 Muslims dead. Exploiting the insecurities and tensions stoked by India’s opening to the world, Modi has turned his state into a stronghold of Hindu extremism

"We Forget Our Shame"

We Forget Our Shame

Accused after accused testified to how the Gujarat genocide would not have been possible had Narendra Modi not sent out clear directives to the administration to look the other way

US, Oman reject visa for Modi on account of his role in Gujarat riots; Oman Gov. takes out ad in Indian newspaper distancing itself from Modi

After the US, now Oman govt shuns Modi - Home - livemint.com



There is no proof that India has anything to do with insurgencies in Pakistan, while there is plenty that Pakistan fuels insurgencies in Kashmir.

There is plenty of proof including pictures of who goes in and out of Indian consulates in Afghanistan. We just don't cry about these things. Better to get even than to crib and complain.

You do not have an upper hand in Afghanistan. The Afghani people love us and hate you.

If you replace "Afghani people" with "a few rapists and murders from the northern alliance who are temporarily clinging to power" in the above sentence, then I wholeheartedly agree. What is there to argue about? Let us just wait a couple of years and see what happens. No need to be in such a hurry.

What makes you think it was Pakistani diplomacy that got India excluded in Turkey?

You are welcome to live in denial. I can only point to what has appeared in your own press about this... and oh, by the way, it's not just Turkey, but also the US which is no longer giving much consideration to India's interests in Afghanistan:

From Rediff:

Afghan conference: Implications for India: Rediff.com India News

For instance, India was not consulted by the US when they devised their ****** policy. Accordingly, it is not surprising that India is no more than a bit player at the London conference. More worrisome should be the fact that Turkey, in deference to Pakistan, did not invite India to the Istanbul regional summit on Afghanistan held just prior to the London conference. This is reflective of a broader failure of India's diplomacy."

Also from Rediff:

India ignored at Afghanistan summit: Rediff.com India News

In the run up to the London summit hosted by Turkey a few days ago, India had not been invited to participate. This had been done in deference to Pakistan's opposition to India's presence in Afghanistan.

From The Asian Age:

Turkey helps Pak keep India out of Afghan group | NewsCred - Create and Discover Newspapers About the Things You Love

With Turkey's help, Pakistan has given notice of keeping India isolated from future regional plans to stabilise Afghanistan that are likely to be part of the discussion package at Thursday's high-level London co-nfabulations on Afghanistan to be co-hosted by President Hamid Karzai, PM Gordon Brown and UN Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon.


From ANI via OneIndia:

Pak working overtime to counter India's 'greater role' in Afghanistan - Oneindia News
 
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A war is unevitable b/w Pak-istan & india....


It's time for bearing a BLACK flag instead of WHITE flag....

Na’im, son of Hammad in al-Fitan, reports that Abu Huraira said
that the Messenger of Allah mentioned India and said: “A group
of you will conquer India. Allah will open (India) for them until
they come with its kings chained — Allah having forgiven their
sins — when they return (from India), they will find the son of
Mary in Syria.”(Kitab Al Fitan)



===========================

Nostradamus wrote his dreams in 1555...

The deep entry(indo-pak region) made by the great Queen
will make the place powerful and inaccessible;
the army of the three lions will be defeated(in indo-pak region)
causing within a thing hideous and terrible.


The prince(Eesa/Jesus) who has little pity of mercy
will come through death(Eesa escapes death) to change (and become) very knowledgeable.
The kingdom will be attended with great tranquillity,
when the great one will soon be fleeced."[/I]


==================

Here's that army of three lions....


(1)Indian national symbol is "Three Lions" (Official Link)
(2)Indian secret agency R.A.W's symbol is also 3 Lions.(Source)
(3)Indian passports have 3 Lions on it. (source)


Prophet Muhammad(saww) said that a Muslim army will defeat india & when that army will return , it will find Eesa(pbuh) in Syria.
-
-
-
"Nostradamus" repeated this story in around year 1555 that "an army of three lions will be defeated" ......
-
-
-
Indian Passport
f519cd82032e0775bbb3c9907b741182.jpg


Research and Analysis Wing (RA.W.) indian secret agency

1. Dont get religion into every thing
2. Your concept of 3 lions is as hilareous as it is uneductated. FYI, the emblem of India and RAW and on India's passport has 4 lions (not 3) standing back to back.
3. Go fix your economy first and stop banking on international aid to prop it up. Post that come and talk of your delusional dreams of conquering India..
 
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313 defeated 1000 in 1st islamic war... Most of wars muslims faught, they were outnumbered by enemy... Period.

Arey sarkaar main toh bhool hi gaya tha..

In words of Zaid hamid sir
"
Hum zinda comm hain.. aur zinda comm ko toh chot lagti hi rehti hai.. koi baat nahi.. nirash na hoyein.. 313 se 1000 ko maara tha.. hum hindustan ko sabak sikha denge.. tukde tukde kar denge.."

Ho gaya kya.. ab chalo so jao.. bache raat main zaida der tak nahi jaagte...

Get out of the dream world and face reality... my humble request
 
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...Your concept of 3 lions is as hilareous as it is uneductated. FYI, the emblem of India and RAW and on India's passport has 4 lions (not 3) standing back to back....
u need to get ur own facts right...

here's ur own government's official web site..
(Official Indian Emblem, Lions shown are 3...)

I quote:-
...The state emblem is an adaptation from the Sarnath Lion Capital of Ashoka......In the state emblem, adopted by the Government of India on 26 January 1950, only three lions are visible, the fourth being hidden from view....
ur "EMBLEM" has 3 lions NOT 4.... Sarnath had 4.... but ur govt. adopted EMBLEM with only 3 visible,,, So now official emblem has 3... Can u show me 4th one in emblem????
 
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^^^ignorance at its best 4th one is at back stupid

i can oly laugh at ur knowledge
is this is how u were taught in schools not to read whole thing but read oly wat u like han?
 
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