What's new

Pathetic Indian Police- FBI analysis of 26/11

@ Kinetic

I think you have some mental problem or maybe you are getting f**ked in life...no point in trying to provoke me.. Coz i have already apologised and tried to understand the problem.

:lol:

lol I liked those words. hehehe..... I was expacting them from you. Because I know what some of my desi idiots can put regarding this matter.

And how do you know that i am going to the US...hey i didnt tell your gf that last night..i swear!

Your father was in Army???? :lol: Roaming here to there searching for girls? :lol: So frustrated? I can understand, what happened to your family members after your father died. :lol: I feel sorry for them.

BTW I dont have any gf, check it, whether it was your ...... or not!!! I am not going to feel the blank. :)

Regarding my fathers death...you are already showing how much you respect everyone...people like you can talk hiding behind the computer screen...try telling me this face to face and see if i am a coward or not.

:lol:

I know very well of people like you. Your 'f'' word shows that you are a coward.

Your father didn't die in Kargil war nor he is an army man. Face to face? What is bothering you on internet? Logic?

People with an IQ of over 100 should only be allowed here...you cant understand what a debate is.

I see, there is huge difference between yours and my contribution to this forum. :)
 
:lol:

lol I liked those words. hehehe..... I was expacting them from you. Because I know what some of my desi idiots can put regarding this matter.



Your father was in Army???? :lol: Roaming here to there searching for girls? :lol: So frustrated? I can understand, what happened to your family members after your father died. :lol: I feel sorry for them.

BTW I dont have any gf, check it, whether it was your ...... or not!!! I am not going to feel the blank. :)



:lol:

I know very well of people like you. Your 'f'' word shows that you are a coward.

Your father didn't die in Kargil war nor he is an army man. Face to face? What is bothering you on internet? Logic?



I see, there is huge difference between yours and my contribution to this forum. :)

You have a great attitude man..what more can i say?

I wont debate with a person like you who abuses people who are dead.
 
Yeah grandfather please read my comments correctly

Though I made 1900+ posts that doesn't mean I am your 'grandfather'!!!!

i was saying that he is blaming the police who have not behaved like the Constable Omble who is also fighting a terrorists who has AK-47 and bcoz of him we caught kasab alive if the police at the CST have not left like that some more people could have been saved that's what i am trying to say and i too have lot of respect for my police and my country .

Read my other posts my position is already stated there.

I will not going into Omble case but read his comment first, he said there is a difference in attitude between Indian and US police, that include Omble!!!! What do you think, when posting such BS he cared about policemen like Omble. No he simply started bashing Indian police on the words of US 'agent'.

And the reason i supported him is he lost his father in kargil war so i understood that he is talking in anger and his intention is not to criticize our police force

that is fake.
 
You have a great attitude man..what more can i say?

I wont debate with a person like you who abuses people who are dead.

But I debate with people those who abuse others with 'f' word, attack personally (like staying with gf at night), calling others having mental problem etc. Great!!!!

When you are settling in US? Applied for visa? :lol:
 
But I debate with people those who abuse others with 'f' word, attack personally (like staying with gf at night), calling others having mental problem etc. Great!!!!

When you are settling in US? Applied for visa? :lol:

and who started it in the beginning of this thread?

You should be ashamed of yourself calling me fake...why would i say that my father is not there and died in kargil like that????i never expected such attitude from anyone..its so pathetic and hurting that someone is sayingg tthat my father went behind girls..when he is no more and died eleven yrs ago.

How would it feel if your father wasnt alive and i said such things??

When i came to this forum i thought maybe i shouldnt share these things coz this is a pakistani forum..but its truly shameful that an Indian memeber behaved like this...its so disgusting.
 
Then what did it expect??..that terrorists will call them and say...bhai jaan are you locked and loaded..coz we are going to attack your city??

I think what i have felt today after debating here is that...

Firstly the politicians are to be blammed coz for their protection they need the best armed force known as SPG and NSG and for common people they give lathis in the hands of not vry well trained gentlemen and ask them to fight.

Secondly..senior police officers are to be blammed for the lack of modernisation of police force...maybe they should take an approach our generals are taking...ie to go to the media and tell everything honestly.

It is the people at the bottom who have to pay in the end..ie common men and women and policemen doing their duty.

i politely disagree with you....
for the bold part -
you view our politicians like they are those corrupt goons from bollywood movies, exceptions are there but that dosent mean you can use it as a generalization criteria

just imagine if we lose a leader like our PM Manmohan Singh or AB Vajpayee or P Chidambaram or our Defence minister ....

in worst case, what if they get captured by some xyz terrorist org., terrorists will get access to the most sensitive information...


for the underlined part -
why do you blame senior police officials for this???
do you even consider the immense political pressure they have on their shoulders
and also, generals cant be shifted or removed that easily, while IPS officers can be tossed around like football by politicians
and yah btw have you EVER protested , emailed our PM or Home dept, or even some NGO about the condition of our police and the reforms you would like to see??
if you want to change something start with changing yourself..




ps: its good to be back
 
Last edited:
Request to all:

Please don't get personal.

Kinetic,
Please don't try to insult somebody dead. If you don't want to believe anything just ignore it; but you have no rights to insult somebody who is not there between us.
 
Last edited:
Request to all:

Please don't get personal.

Kinetic,
Please don't try to make fun of somebody dead. If you don't want to believe anything just ignore it; but you have no rights to make fun of somebody who is not there between us.

Thank you very much.wanted to say the same thing.

And guys plz try to keep it to the topic that this thread is for.No need to get personal:)
 
Gentlemen,

I rather think that the FBI sought to point out the complete failure of policy, not the failure of police in the Bombay action. If we examine their report and the situation on the ground, there are actually SEVERAL major lacunae:

  1. Lack of a doctrine for anti-terrorism and counter-insurgency;
  2. Lack of training and of equipment to carry out the doctrine;
  3. Lack of human living conditions for lower level policemen;
  4. Lack of leadership; and
  5. Lack of political will.

Permit me to expand on it in brief. Let us take doctrine first.

In the case of terror incidents, there ought to be, first of all, a clear doctrine covering
  • definition of a terrorist incident
  • the mechanism to recognise such incidents early in their life-cycle
  • the chain of command to be initiated under such conditions
  • the response to such incidents -
    • force alone,
    • force and negotiations,
  • the location of resources to cope with these incidents
  • the impingement of the chain of command with these resources
  • the composition of such resources, including
    • armed personnel
    • command and control resources, preferably transportable, with links and pre-determined interfaces to regular resources, such as
      • local police,
      • local fire-fighting,
      • local civil defence,
      • local civil authorities,
      • local political authority
    • trained negotiators
    • medical support
    • disaster management support, such as fire-fighting and anti-gas or bacterial and chemical containment crews
    • external communications officers, including press officers
    • executive authority, possibly an executive magistrate
  • validity of decisions made under duress,
  • responses to negotiations, and
  • the empowered authority (within the chain of command established) to manage such response: for instance,
    • food and drink in a hostage situation;
    • emergency medical assistance;
    • communications resources, such as mobile phones, satellite phones;
    • demand for logistics, like boats or road vehicles or aircraft;
    • demand for access to public broadcasting;
  • back-up and reinforcement against heavy casualties
Similar doctrine needs to be established for counter-insurgency. This is not present - visibly - in either India or Pakistan.

It is only after this step is taken that one can begin to build forces, arm and train them, house and shelter them, provide a leadership structure, probably a JCO structure of command rather than put in IPS officers at grass-roots level, a structure that has proved unsuccessful in either anti-terror and counter-insurgency, and challenge the politicians to put their will behind legislation or administrative measures to realise the doctrine.

But the doctrine comes first.

Connanxlrc1000 said:
well our poltical baboons get Z plus security but you know what these bloody idiotictic baboons never think of upgrading our police forces. if the common police person was equipped in accordance to 21st century standard 26/11 would have been a different story

Adam Gilchrist said:
I have a question too...Mumbai now has Force 1 and NSG too...so i wanted to know incase of a terrorist attack who will go to the scene first and what is the need of both Force 1 and NSG in the same city??

A bloody good question.

they should have used the same funds to equip and train police personal
instead of all this hype

I believe that your several slightly variant points may have been covered by the observations above.

Sir,
u ask me what contribution I have made for the defense of India ,I m sorry to say but the only contribution I have made is to pay my tax (every single penny of it) honestly for the past 10 years.

What is the meaning of the Canadian flag in your identity? You pay your taxes in
Canada and help to defend India? In Canada?

I cannot pick up a weapon and start fighting ,for it is not my job.

Good. Now we are getting somewhere.

Nor can an unarmed policeman, or even an armed policeman armed with an ancient bolt-action SMLE. The armed policeman is trained to fire from a rank of policemen lined up at a violent, rioting mob, not to take cover and start shooting at AK47 wielding terrorists.

Evidently the fact that a policeman wears uniform has confused you.

As I pointed out in an earlier post, a policeman is nothing but an unarmed civilian, just like anything unarmed civilian, unless he belongs to a specific unit trained for the job of resisting terrorists or insurgents.

Please try to remember, once again, that a policeman has four duties, and three of them do not involve anti-terror or counter-insurgency measures.

Please try to remember:

a policeman
  • maintains law and order under ordinary circumstances, against, say, people quarrelling outside a bar because they are tipsy, petty thieves quarrelling over the distribution of loot; even, in extreme cases, communal violence, and resultant riots;
  • regulates traffic;
  • detects crime and seeks to prevent it. Here we are talking about crimes such as robbery, assault and battery, cheating, running gambling dens or houses of ill fame, and so on.

These roles do not include terror or insurgency, or the prevention of organised violence by specialised perpetrators of violence, like terrorists and insurgents.

It is NOT the job of ordinary or regular policemen to prevent terrorism or insurgency; this is the job of the armed police.

It is NOT the job of a traffic policeman to stop a terrorist in a vehicle trying to get away; this is the job of the armed police.

For your information, a normal, regular policeman cannot, for instance, regulate traffic; unless specifically trained and tasked for it, he cannot do it. In addition, in India, he is not authorised to make traffic arrests. A little investigation of cognisable and non-cognisable offences, and the necessity of an FIR to authorise arrests or a warrant in the case of non-cognisable offences, would help the discussion along.

Please try to understand: a postman also wears uniform, a post man and a beat policeman are equally well-equipped to stop armed terrorists.

In brief, it appears that your criticism, unlike that of the FBI, is based on your own understanding of the law and of law enforcement. This differs radically between the US and India, so no direct comparison is possible. Handcuffing is standard in the US; it is forbidden in India.

Also when u mention that the policeman who bear arms but have to take permission to fire, I m aware of the procedures.

I doubt it strongly. Nothing that you have said earlier, nothing that you have said in this post, indicates that.

But my question to u is if a terrorist is opening fire and killing innocent civilians ,a policeman whose duty is to protect is to protect people runs away ,U r saying that the policeman did the right thing?

No, not at all. But an armed policeman can resist, and an unarmed policeman cannot resist.

Try to remember why they give gallantry awards, since you know about Saragarhi and Longowal and seem to be a military expert. These awards are given, the higher awards are all given for courage over and above the call of duty.

I am quite sure that you were never aware of this, but will now claim that you were.

Let me explain the point as simply as I can. Failing to rush at an AK47 wielding terrorist is not a failure of duty, if one is unarmed; rushing that AK47 wielding terrorist is gallantry over and above the call of duty, if the unarmed policeman does such a thing.

Constable Omble was gallant over and above the call of duty, but that does not mean that those who realised that they were unable to stand up to rapid fire from an automatic assault rifle were guilty of dereliction of duty. It is their seniors who were, those who failed to work to protect the city against such an eventuality.

Tell me sir/other people on this forum if ur own family was at that train station ,will u still defend that policeman?

Yes. I am not a hypocrite.

there were other constables who actually performed their duties like the guy who captured Kasab and we should all honor him for his bravery.He was also one of
the mumbai police (with similar training). but I CANNOT applaud an act of sheer cowardness.

I don't remember that ANYONE asked you to do any such thing. Are you authorised to hand out certificates of courage? Tell me, have you even heard an automatic rifle being fired, within a range of twenty to thirty feet? Not in the movies, not in computer games, but in real life? Are you sure that you can be brave at such a time, knowing that you will be next if you are spotted, and you have nothing with you with which to resist the armed man?

I should like to know what right you have to sit in judgement if you do not have the courage yourself to stand up to such impossible odds. Even soldiers duck bullets, for heavens' sake. You might also have read about, though never seen, a trench.

Ask the Indian Army major who joined this forum recently, and he'll tell you what you need to know about how to evaluate cowardice.

Also other people ,who feel proud of our police forces kindly read this article. there are cowards/undeserving people in our police and we cannot applaud them fort the same

The rest of your post is truly beneath contempt.

You are obviously not only mean in spirit, but an active mischief-maker, because the behaviour of rogue cops in Delhi in the anti-Sikh riots has nothing to do with what we are discussing, the conduct of policemen in Bombay during the terrorist attacks.

For that matter, there are also cowards/undeserving people, who sit and intone platitudes about death and glory from their position in a comfortable western society well-equipped against terrorists and against war in any form, and whine about the courage of others. So what? For every rogue policeman, there are a hundred thousand other rogue unarmed civilians.


sir, did u go thru my last post? After reading it, do u still feel proud of our police?
venting ur anger on other people is not gonna change any ground realities.

Dear Sir,

I cannot answer for 'Kinetic' but I can answer for myself.

I do not feel proud of our police. They are paid professionals doing their duty. I do not feel proud of anyone who is doing their duty for pay; that is what they chose to do, that is the profession they chose, and that is all there is to it. But I do see that they are brave people who do their duty, do what they are trained to do, in spite of being up against impossible odds on occasion.

I do feel ashamed, however, of people who are the most hypocritical, mean and back-biting kinds of individual, who mock in others those qualities that they cannot display themselves.

To them, the advice needed is simple:

First, do something - anything - courageous, then sit in judgement on others.

If a simple tax-payer who has paid every penny for the last ten years and thereby earned the eternal blessings of India and her Finance Ministers during the period (always assuming that the taxes were paid to India) wonders what act of bravery can be demonstrated, let him try this bravery thing in easy steps. Don't let him hurry and spoil things.

As the first step, let him try crossing the road.

Sincerely,
 
Last edited:
Now NSG troops will have further training by German special forces. I hope India spends more on CCTV and control rooms that could easily have monitored the coastline of mumbai and sent signal to armed units.
 
I would request you all to not be emotional and put valid points.i can understand if your relatives are in the police force it can hurt you..and to be honest no one would be more hurt in this thread than me...but as they say never take anyone in the internet seriously..so let us continue with a healthy debate.

I have a few questions..

Firstly..who is to blame for mumbai situation??

Secondly..there are several instances where the police itself indulges in crime..that was what i was pointing to..what should be done to improve that?
 
@ Kinetic

You seem to be a very young guy.Calm your senses and have an open approach on everything in life.Be prepared to be criticised because in democracy everyone has the right to do so and no one has the right to stop me from doing that.

From your posts you sound like a guy who is very proud of his 1900 posts and thinks he is the most respected her but to be honest dude.. I would respect someone like a Joe Shearer who has less posts but has so much knowledge and experience in life.

Last night i didnt like your comments but you dont know who i am..so i didnt mind that.But if you ever come to jammu plz send me a message...i will take you to my house and see if i am lieing or not.

Regarding going to USA..i had the chance to go to either USA,Australia or phillipines for something which i wont like to share because people like you can target anything but i didnt go...not because i didnt have money or i couldnt live without Indian streets for few years..only coz of my mother(she is ill most of the time)

believe if you want to believe..if you dont wanna believe then also its fine atleast dont make personal attacks without knowing anything about the other guy.

And an advice if you can take..stop suspecting everything...and stop questioning everything and anything..to follow it is your wish.

p s...i cant be affected by any hate..i have seen many of this in real life and this is a bloody joke in front of that...now come back to the topic and make valid points.
 
I would request you all to not be emotional and put valid points.

Dear Sir,

This thread is getting tiresome, because some of us insist on going back again and again to ground that has been covered and that needs to be left behind. If it is your fixed intention to foist a quarrel on others, nobody can stop you, but in that case, please let us have no demonstrations of biddability. They look good to the gallery, they fail to impress on a sustained basis.

I believe that you are not raising valid points, only inflammatory words and sentences are being brought up again and again.

However, I am making an appeal to Kinetic to let go of the personal bit, and to focus on our topic, which has enough meat. What 'Adam Gilchrist' has revealed of his personal life is saddening, and I think we can stay away from hurting a bereaved son at his most sensitive point. Please, let it be.

i can understand if your relatives are in the police force it can hurt you..and to be honest no one would be more hurt in this thread than me...but as they say never take anyone in the internet seriously..so let us continue with a healthy debate.

You are leaving us with no choice but to refuse to take you seriously.:-D

I have a few questions..

Firstly..who is to blame for mumbai situation??

Oh, brilliant! Full-scale commissions of enquiry, the Government of Maharashtra, the Government of Pakistan, the Government of the US of A, the Government of India have not come to firm conclusions, but it is expected that this asssembly of twenty-somethings will come out with an answer.

So be it. Herewith the list (please remember, it was you who said that nothing on the Internet needs to be taken seriously):

  1. The Governor of Maharashtra: he allowed the Chief Minister at the time, obviously incompetent, to continue in office;
  2. The Chief Minister of Maharashtra; he proved to be unsuccessful in preventing the incident;
  3. The Home Minister of Maharashtra; for managing the limited resources of the Maharashtra State Police and the Mumbai City Police inefficiently;
  4. The DG and IGP of Maharashtra, for not having set up a marine police force, as recommended by various security agencies time and time again;
  5. The Commissioner of Police, Mumbai, for failing to appoint the right officers to the right jobs;
  6. All the Additional CPs who failed to turn up at the scene of the incidents until all the damage had been done;
  7. The Indian Navy, for inefficient monitoring of the sea approaches to the Indian coast, and for wasting money on aircraft carriers when they can't defend the country's marine borders;
  8. The Indian Coast Guard, for having become a toll-taking agency harrassing fishermen, small coastal craft and small inter-Gulf dhows, and letting the big fish slip through even though they actually had the boat under their searchlight;
  9. Mr. J. N. Tata, for having built the Taj Hotel, and invited attack from envious people, without leaving enough money to his descendants to defend the damn' place;
  10. Mr. Ratan Tata, for not having taken precautions to guard his valuable property and the even more valuable lives of his guests;
  11. The General Manager of the Taj, who lost his wife and children in the attack, for not having put a chain-link fence around the property and prevented entry by the terrorists - not being able to allow guests in is a minor commercial detail and as all of us lion-hearts of the keyboard know, money matters little, it's all about dying for the country on the field of battle - that's someone else, I'm too busy writing to PDF, and can't spare time to die this week;
  12. The Manager, Personnel, of the Taj, for not having bought his staff bullet-proof vests;
  13. The Jewish sect, for having opened a contact point in Mumbai, as if they were human beings and had human rights like the rest of us;
  14. The Israelis, for not having mounted precision, 'surgical' strikes on the training camps from which the terrorists came, and for not having eliminated the fat fountain of hate who inspired them;
  15. The Russians, for not having sold us rifles that would shoot through walls, and radar equipment that would look through walls;
  16. The Americans, for not having given us $20.0 billion to fight terror, with which money enough ordnance could have been bought to blow all sea-going craft, including Indian fishermen, right out of the water - if others can do it, why can't we?
  17. The British, always at the root of all Indo-Pakistani trouble, for having accepted Mumbai as a dowry; they are directly responsible for these 'dowry' deaths and HM the Queen should be prosecuted by the Magistrate in Mumbai on anti-dowry charges;
  18. The Pope, because his predecessor did not stop the marriage between Catherine of Braganza and the King of England;

Secondly..there are several instances where the police itself indulges in crime..that was what i was pointing to..what should be done to improve that?

Dare I suggest another list? Kinetic, please join me in reviewing the partial list below, and suggest additions or deletions.

The exact, same treatment as -
  • Politicians who are convicted of crime;
  • Judges who are convicted of crime;
  • Army officers and men who are convicted of crime;
  • Navy officers and men who are convicted of crime;
  • Air Force officers and men who are convicted of crime;
  • Civil servants who are convicted of crime;
  • Bus conductors in their uniforms who are convicted of crime;
  • Postal service mailmen convicted of crime;
  • Muslim priests convicted of crime;
  • Hindu priests convicted of crime;
  • Christian priests convicted of crime;
  • Sikh priests convicted of crime;
  • Buddhist monks convicted of crime;
  • All Muslim, Hindu, Christian, Sikh, Buddhist and people of any other religion omitted, and not already listed as priests, convicted of crime;
  • Sons of defence personnel who are convicted of traffice offences and give the police cheek instead of owning up;
  • Pukka idiots who ask questions like this one;
  • Bigger idiots than pukka idiots, who give pukka idiots access to computers with which to torture the whole world, rather than just their own little nukkad;

I suggest that you make a trip to the scene of the crime and take notes. Let it not be a short trip, take your time, and be sure to concentrate on your task and do nothing else during that time; it should under no circumstances be less than eight to nine months, or you will not have done the subject justice. During that time, you must concentrate wholly on your fact-finding, hence you must stay scrupulously away from the Internet or from computers, in case inadvertently, you should leak - I am referring to a leak of information, naturally. Do please set an early date for your departure on this fact-finding trip, and, inter-alia, away from the Internet, and make a lot of people very happy. There is absolutely no need to be in a tearing hurry, and if you leave tomorrow morning by 4 am for Kohima, that would be fine. Remember that the shortest route to Mumbai, as you can check with the same person who advises you on what questions to ask, is through Kohima, Aizawl, Hailakandi, Jorhat, North Lakkhimpur, Tezpur - just write to me on PM, and I will gladly send you a detailed itinerary.

Sincerely,
 
Last edited:
@Joe Shearer

thanx for the detailed reply...i m sorry for acting stupid and bringing it again...but i was waiting for a detailed reply...but i think second question could bve replied in a better way..like the first part where some points were worth mentioning among those sarcastic points
 
Last edited:

Pakistan Affairs Latest Posts

Back
Top Bottom