PAT- Dr. Tahir-Ul-Qadri's Political Desk

[batmannow]

 

[Myth_buster_1]

its just your opinion?
while million peoples, follow him & his stand? even in the coldest, nights of winter?
ohh you cant see, that? busted

Let me bust your myth. Only few hundred thousand people showed up for TuQ rock concert. And for the sake of argument let me agree with absurd figure of 1 million, the majority of pakistan is more then a million and most of them do not support this fool.

So kids what have we learned today? MuQ + MQM = muq mqa!

 

[batmannow]

prime example of hypocrite. First you accuse me of being a salafist and then give me a lecture to not accuse batman ? Btw UK is a breeding ground for salafists. and oh, Prophet Mohammed was not a sufi because Sufism evolved from occult practice.

Sufism | Surrendering Islam

you are just another, taliban supporter, nothing else & for guys like you, whole world is your enemy!

Let me bust your myth. Only few hundred thousand people showed up for TuQ rock concert. And for the sake of argument let me agree with absurd figure of 1 million, the majority of pakistan is more then a million and most of them do not support this fool.

So kids what have we learned today? MuQ + MQM = muq mqa!

in the end, you thanks for accepting that you are blind!
here is your islam , posting your hate against other muslims, who you dont like!
what a alim you are, from tora bora madrsaa?

 

[Myth_buster_1]

So you have a PHD to call someone a dajjal follower...very shameful statement which has no causal mechanism and is too positive and has no grain of salt to support such a statement.

So now we need PHD to call someone a dajjal or his follower? Is that why Padri was calling government officals yazid, pharoah, dajjal etc?

Rule number 1 of a debate advocates the theory that you can discuss issues but becoming personal shows your personal emotions because you have no answers to respond to criticism.

and the rule only applies to me? being hypocrite again?

 

[batmannow]

Batmannow hallucinating again. as usual no valid logic to your argument just rants which goes to show you have lost the argument and your Padri is a terrorist party supporter.
Hallucinating again? Did you not get your medication?

I am giving u 1,lol
Answer to ur foolish, questions were already given!
Again & again!
Bt the religious terrorist inside ur skin, needs more ,wht can I do?lol
U hve tried evrything u can,bt your hate to TuQ,is just bassed on secterianism,which is itself a bigger sin in islam? Let alone abuse to the fellow muslim anyway?lol

 

[Myth_buster_1]

you are just another, taliban supporter, nothing else & for guys like you, whole world is your enemy!

Batmannow hallucinating again. as usual no valid logic to your argument just rants which goes to show you have lost the argument and your Padri is a terrorist party supporter. btw did you even read the link?

in the end, you thanks for accepting that you are blind!
here is your islam , posting your hate against other muslims, who you dont like!
what a alim you are, from tora bora madrsaa?

If i was blind i wont be able to read however its you who is blinded with Padri falsehood. You call yourself a muslim who performs sajdah at qadri padri's feet? yuk. Taliban MuQ and MQM have one thing in common. muq muqa

 

[Green Bullet]

[prime example of hypocrite. First you accuse me of being a salafist and then give me a lecture to not accuse batman ? Btw UK is a breeding ground for salafists. and oh, Prophet Mohammed was not a sufi because Sufism evolved from occult practice so it is among the 72 sects of hell. /QUOTE]

I made an assumption hence why I said the word guess, no need to get too agitated. So do you follow the doctrine of Salafism, its a simple question which I hope you can answer please? Salafists does not constitute the belief of following a dajjal or his followers, which you were boldly making before....big difference my friend.

Yes UK is a breeding ground for Salafism, good deduction which is commendable. However its has no correlation with the current topic which is being discussed. Did you think by postulating such a statement, I will feel ashamed and angry thereby retaliating back in the same manner...I don't think so.

So was Rumi wrong in your opinion and the great Abdul al-Qadir al-Gilani, who were practing sufism. By the way Sufism is not a cult, its just the idea of breaking your consciousness where you feel more close to Allah and the Prophet (Peace Be Upon Him). Some people have misused and astrayed from the correct path, but the core principles are all correct. The Islam which was seen to be spread across India was through Sufism. The Islam which was spread into Europe was through Sufism through the Ottomans. Yes there are 72 sects who will go to hell, but what makes you so confident that we Sufi's are wrong?

 

[Green Bullet]

and the rule only applies to me? being hypocrite again?

The rule applies to everyone. Please think before you write as my conjecture was in general i.e. applies to me and Batmannow or anyone else in this forum.

So now we need PHD to call someone a dajjal or his follower? Is that why Padri was calling government officals yazid, pharoah, dajjal etc?

Well you have no right to call others Dajjal or his follower, because you are not God or some preacher who has divine powers from God to make such an assumption. He said Yazeedi system, big difference.

 

[Myth_buster_1]

I am giving u 1,lol
Answer to ur foolish, questions were already given!
Again & again!
Bt the religious terrorist inside ur skin, needs more ,wht can I do?lol
U hve tried evrything u can,bt your hate to TuQ,is just bassed on secterianism,which is itself a bigger sin in islam? Let alone abuse to the fellow muslim anyway?lol

What answer did you give other then rants? If you have nothing better to say then keep your mouth shut and dont let the devil speak for you. And stop playing the victim card. we know you were in taliban's captivity for a long time and still recovering from the abuse.

I am giving u 1,lol
Answer to ur foolish, questions were already given!
Again & again!
Bt the religious terrorist inside ur skin, needs more ,wht can I do?lol
U hve tried evrything u can,bt your hate to TuQ,is just bassed on secterianism,which is itself a bigger sin in islam? Let alone abuse to the fellow muslim anyway?lol

What answer did you give other then rants? If you have nothing better to say then keep your mouth shut and dont let the devil speak for you. And stop playing the victim card. we know you were in taliban's captivity for a long time and still recovering from the abuse.

 

[Green Bullet]

What answer did you give other then rants? If you have nothing better to say then keep your mouth shut and dont let the devil speak for you. And stop playing the victim card. we know you were in taliban's captivity for a long time and still recovering from the abuse.

Look at the way you speak, and you call your self a person who follows the Sunnah of the Prophet (Peace Be Upon Him) and the holy book Quran. Why would you use the word abuse..so wrong and actually its against the forum rules.

 

[Myth_buster_1]

I do not need to fallow anyone when the book of allah "quran" and words of prophet are here.

By the way Sufism is not a cult, its just the idea of breaking your consciousness where you feel more close to Allah and the Prophet (Peace Be Upon Him). Some people have misused and astrayed from the correct path, but the core principles are all correct.

It still does not change the fact that Sufism evolved from occult practices which is also used by freemasonry.
I advice you reading the fallowing article.

It was William St. Clair, serving on a delegation for his father’s cousin, King Edward the Confessor, who escorted his successor, Edward “the Exile”, from Hungary back to England, after which his daughter Margaret later married Malcolm III of Scotland. The Sinclairs, who were also a Norman family descended from Rollo the Viking, eventually became the leading family of Scottish Rite Freemasonry, regarded as representing a very “sacred” bloodline.

Their brand of Scottish Rite Freemasonry was believed to have developed out of contact between the knights of the Crusades and the mystics of the Islamic world. With the collapse of the Roman Empire, the last of the Neoplatonic philosophers moved east, seeking temporary refuge at the court of the Persian king, though, finding their situation inhospitable, they departed from Persia to an unknown destination, some say to Harran. Harran was the seat of one of the most important esoteric communities, the Sabians, believed to have inherited the occult traditions of Alexandria in Egypt, preserving the knowledge of Neoplatonism, and Hermeticism.

According to al-Biruni, a Muslim scholar of the eleventh century, these were confused with the real Sabeans. The real Sabeans, he wrote, were originally remnants of Jews exiled at Babylon, where they had adopted the teachings of the Magi, or Zoroastrians. However, he indicates, the same name was applied to an occult community, the so-called Sabians of Harran:

They derive their system from Agathodaemon, Hermes, Walis, Maba, Sawar. They believe that these men and other sages like them were prophets. This sect is much more known by the name of Sabians than the others, although they themselves did not adopt this name before 228 A. H. under Abbasid rule, solely for the purpose of being reckoned among those from whom the duties of Dhimmies (protected non-Muslim community) are accepted, and towards whom the laws of Dhimmy are observed. Before that time they were called heathens, idolaters, and Harranians... 48

And when the Muslims embarked on their great project of translating the works of the Greek philosophers and other ancient authors, it was to the Sabians that they turned as a resource and as translators. Thus the age-old occult doctrines infiltrated the world of Islam. The first result of their influence was the emergence of Sufism, a so-called “mystical” approach to Islam. Several European historians, including noted French scholar of Islamic mysticism, Henry Corbin, has identified that the primary symbolism of Sufi teachings was derived from Sabian symbolism.

But by “mysticism” is meant the common practice known to the mysteries and the occult philosophies, meaning, the belief that knowlege or “Gnosis”, cannot be achieved by ordinary means, but must be achieved by direct “union” with the divine. To the worshippers of Dionysus, the state was known as “enthusiasmos” or “having a god within”. It was a type of possession, wherein the “god” was believed to seize hold of the initiate, and communicate information to him, or through him or her, and to other devotees. This is a practice also known as channelling. Communicated was knowledge of the future, or of occult knowledge like magic.

There are many who believe that Sufism merely started as a form of asceticism, but was later corrupted by the influence of Neoplatonism. The word “Sufism” is generally agreed to come from the word “Suf”, referring to the rough woolen garment that the early Sufis wore to expemplify their renunciation of the world. A well-known saying of the Prophet Mohammed (SAW) is “there is no monasticism [asceticism] in Islam”. Asceticism is a practice that is common throughout the world. It is found in the Merkabah, the monks of Christianity, the lamas of Buddhism, and the fakirs of Hinduism. Of the Christians, the Qur’an says, in Surat 57:27:

But the asceticism which they invented for themselves, We did not prescribe for them: (We commanded) only the seeking for the Good Pleasure of Allah; but that they did not foster as they should have done. Yet We bestowed, on those among them who believed, their (due) reward, but many of them are rebellious transgressors.

The asceticism of the Sufis is merely another kind of vanity. Instead of worldly power, fame or riches, it is the vanity of purported spiritual power that has attracted them. It is the deceptive seduction of the supposed “ecstasy” of the experiences they describe, which are more psycho-physical, and therefore more immediate and perceptible, than that of pure understanding.

Similar to pagan mysticism, the experiences of the Sufis usually involve trance states, visions, and other such quasi-spiritual experiences. In this way, Sufism has disguised ancient mystical practices as pursuit for higher levels of piety and devotion, and thereby acted as conduit to transmit foreign ideas to Islam, distancing some to the point where they wholly appropriated occult ideas that were overtly heretical.

It is generally accepted that the first exponent of Sufi doctrine was the Egyptian, or Nubian, Dhun Nun of the ninth century, whose teaching was recorded and systematised by al Junayd, and in it appears the essential doctrine of all mysticism, but known in Sufism as “tawhid”, meaning “unity” of the soul with God.

The doctrines expressed by al Junayd were boldly preached by his pupil, ash-Shibli of Khurasan in the tenth century. Al-Husayn ibn Mansur al-Hallaj was a fellow-student of ash-Shibli, and demonstrates some clearly heretical elements, such as reincarnation, incarnation, and so on. He was put to death by the son of Salahudin for declaring "I am the truth", identifying himself with God, but later Sufi writers regard him as a saint and martyr who suffered because he disclosed the great secret of the union between the soul and God.

This doctrine was known as hulul, or the incarnation of God in the human body, is treated as tawheed taking place in this present life. According to al-Hallaj, man is essentially divine because he was created by God in his own image, and that is why, he claimed, in Qur’an God commands the angels worship Adam. In hulul God enters the human soul in the same way that the soul at birth enters the body. As De Lacy O’Leary described, in Arabic Thought and its Place in History:

This is an extremely interesting illustration of the fusion of oriental and Hellenistic elements in Sufism, and shows that the theoretical doctrines of Sufism, whatever they may have borrowed from Persia and India, receive their interpretative hypotheses from neo-Platonism. It is interesting also as showing in the person of al-Hallaj a meeting-point between the Sufi and the philosopher of the Isma‘ilian school.49

Sufism was generally looked upon as heretical, for several reasons. First of these was that they believed the daily prayers to be only for the masses, who had not achieved deeper spiritual knowledge, and could be disregarded by those more advanced spiritually. They introduced dhikr, or religious exercises, consisting in a continuous repetition of the name of God, practices unknown to early Islam, and consequently regarded as “bid’ah”, or innovation. Also, many of the Sufis adopted the practice of tawakkul, or complete “dependence” on God, by neglecting all kinds of labour or commerce, refusing medical care when they were ill, and living by begging.

It was not until the time of al Ghazali that Sufism began to become more accepted in orthodox Islam. Consider the description provided by al Ghazali, in his Deliverance from Error, which, without the Arabic terms, could easily be attributed to any of the famous mystics of history. About his conversion to Sufism he said:

"I saw that Sufism consists in experiences rather than in definitions and that what I was lacking belonged to the domain, not of instruction, but of ecstasy and initiation...

"From the time that they [the Sufis] set out on this path, revelations commence for them. They come to see in the waking state angels and souls of prophets; they hear their voices and wise counsels. By means of this contemplation of heavenly forms and images they rise by degrees to heights which human language can not reach, which one can not even indicate without falling into great and inevitable errors. The degree of proximity to Deity which they attain is regarded by some as intermixture of being (hulul), by others as identification (ittihad), by others as intimate union (wasl)."

Sufism was also influenced by Orpheus and related beliefs, and consequently by Pythagoras and his teachings. The attempts to construct a religious philosophy on the basis of Greek thought and especially the theories of Pythagoras culminated in Neoplatonism.

The Arabic philosopher most responsible for the interpretation of Islam according to Neoplatonic thought, was Ibn Arabi, born in Spain in 1164. One of his most famous works is the Bezels of Wisdom, conceived in the course of a “vision” which he had near the Kabbah. Ibn Arabi claimed that he received the work directly from Mohammad, who appeared to him in Damascus in 1229.

Ibn Arabi borrowed from Neoplatonism the concept of emanation. According to Neoplatonism, there is just one exalted God, who is transcendent and unknowable. However, although the world proceeds from God, he did not create it. The universe is an emanation from God, an outfow of his infinite power. Similarly, Ibn Arabi also held that, while the divine essence is absolutely unknowable, the cosmos as a whole is the manifestation of all God’s attributes. Since these attributes must have a creation to be known, “the One” is continually transforms itself into “Many”. This lead him to a doctrine often characterised as pantheism, where he saw that the goal of spiritual realisation is therefore to penetrate beyond the exterior world to “tawhid”, or “unity of existence”. That is, in which one sees the world as at once “One” and “Many”, or, ultimately, where one is able to see God in oneself.

Ibn Arabi also expounded on what became a central doctrine of Sufism, the notion of the “Qubt” or Pole. This “Pole of the World” headed hierarchies of saints the Sufis developed, headed by this “Qutb” or Pole of the World. This idea of a pole of the world is one of central significance to the Kabbalah, where it was likened, as in Ibn Arabi, with the Primordial Adam. Communication with these saints, most important of which is al Khidr, “the Green One”, replaced the gods and demons of ancient mysticism.

The Islam which was seen to be spread across India was through Sufism. The Islam which was spread into Europe was through Sufism through the Ottomans. Yes there are 72 sects who will go to hell, but what makes you so confident that we Sufi's are wrong?

I dough it even if it was then it does not matter since most of the follower of islam claim to be sunnis. Take African American Muslims for example, alot of them came to islam from nation-of-islam which does not mean that such occult organization is on the right path.

I am not here to discuss sufism and if your support for qadri is only because of his belief in Sufism then you are not seeking truth.

Look at the way you speak, and you call your self a person who follows the Sunnah of the Prophet (Peace Be Upon Him) and the holy book Quran. Why would you use the word abuse..so wrong and actually its against the forum rules.

To be honest with you i do not want to do that but sometimes i can not control myself when these trolls resort to such low level argument.

 

[Green Bullet]

Dodging the question, so simple yet it seems too difficult to comprehend. Okay I will repharse my question do you think Abdul bin Wahab was a good scholar. By the way when you follow the Quran and Allah laws then don't use abusive lanaguge.

This article in my opinion is wrong because its an assumption and there is no written document to substantiate such a theory whether it is correct. You still have not answered my question, was Rumi wrong and also the great Abdul al-Qadir al-Gilani who was the direct descendent of the Prophet (Peace Be Upon Him). Okay what about Allama Iqbal he also practiced sufism, so was he wrong.

I just gave you some historical references, so how can you doubt it. sufism has been there since the beginning. Sufi's are not Prophets or divine people, just there to spirtually guide people. Even IK is a sufi so is he wrong as well. Saludeen who fought against the crusaders was a Sufi, because he was the student of a mureed of Abdul al-Qadir al-Gilani. Basically you believe in a concept which was founded 200 years ago by a man who was an extremists, did a deal with the Saud family who preached arab nationalism..just look at the British archives and you will get the picture.

Most black people in America follow mainstream Islam, so your hypothesis is wrong. Nation of Islam was only strong when there was racial segregation and the idea of black power was strong. Since then people have obviously seen why it became wrong. Sufi's don't consider themselves as God or Messengers, so why are you linking them with us.

Like I said to you before, you were attacking him on his practices, hence why I bothered to intervene in your conversation with Batmannow. Unlike you I did not call you a non-muslim, but you seem to have a loose tongue which slips derogatory words. I don't support Qadri because he is a Sufi, since I did state before that I don't blindly follow him, but I do support his policy for reform. I am a fan of IK and TUQ.

 

[Myth_buster_1]

Well you have no right to call others Dajjal or his follower, because you are not God or some preacher who has divine powers from God to make such an assumption. He said Yazeedi system, big difference.

Their is no concept of dajjal in Quran "words of allah" so the only place we find it is in Hadis "prophet"s words which he foretold us about. Dajjal itself means deceive or deceiver and according to the interpretation of these hadiths it has two forms "systems" and "persons". No where in those hadith did i come across him strictly saying that only allah can identify dajjal. Not that i honestly want to associate him with dajjal (just a pay back reply to batman) but he certainly fits the description of corrupt scholar.

Shaykhul-Islaam Ibn Taymiyyah said:

"This is why those who are in authority are of two groups: the scholars and the rulers. If they are upright, the people will be upright; if they are corrupt, the people will be corrupt."

Imam Rafi recorded that Abu Hurairah (ra) reported that Muhammad (saw) said, “One of the most hated creation to Allah is the scholar who keeps visiting the government and the people who work in the streets (i.e. smaller departments).”

Abu Hurairah (ra) reported that Muhammad (saw) said, “The most hated Qarees (Quran Reciters) to Allah are those who visit the rulers.” [Ibn Majah] Abu Hurairah (ra) reported that Muhammad (saw) said, “If you see a scholar mixing with a ruler regularly be aware that this man is a thief.” [Daylami Musnad Firdows]


Muhammad (saw) said, “There will be a people from my Ummah who will study the Deen deeply (Quran etc.) and will say lets go and visit the ruler we may get some of the worldly benefit (by visiting them) and we will never make them spoil our Deen (i.e. we wont compromise). They will never be like this, it is like saying, ‘I want to work (cultivate) where there are thorns and the thorns will never prick him’. They will never take anything closer to them except the sins.”

Pay a lot of attention to the last hadith. Qadri did just that with PPP government! It was done to divert awam from real revolution and all they got was a compromised one! What yazeed system is he going to fight when he is among the yazeed system by supporting MQM! He needs to stop giving analogies to Islamic leaders because they NEVER compromised on such matters and ALWAYS stood to their words!

 

[Green Bullet]

Shaykhul-Islaam Ibn Taymiyyah said:

The same scholar who was imprisoned for his writings, in which inspired Abdul bin Wahab, this just clarifies to me that you are a salafists. The same salafists who are causing anarchy across the Muslim world, the same group who uses suicide bombings and the same group which has caused friction in Pakistan. You talk about Sufism being freemasonary, what about Salafisms after all it was manufactured by the British on the pretext of Arab Nationalism all recorded in history. Do you support the current Saud family who are using the oil money for prostitutes and having a good life while imprisoning those who give dissent to them. So since Saudi is the breeding ground of Salafism, and it supports American agenda then clearly something is wrong.

The last Hadith is your interpretation and TUQ does not get paid by the regime or sleeps in palaces. The quote of “There will be a people from my Ummah who will study the Deen deeply (Quran etc.) and will say lets go and visit the ruler we may get some of the worldly benefit (by visiting them) and we will never make them spoil our Deen" does not link to Qadri. First Qadri did not visit the ruler, he had a march..clear distinction and difference. Second he did not ask any worldly gains and unless you can read his mind this hypothesis is wrong. Third you should link this to the Saudi Imams in Mecca who live in palaces and visit there rulers quite often. Fourth he does not support MQM. Yes Islamic Leaders do stand by there words, but unlike Abdul Bin Wahab, they don't get kicked out from Najaf through bring innovation. He was a British agent fully appreciated by the Empire for weakning the Ottiomans in the Arab peninsula.

 

[Myth_buster_1]

The same scholar who was imprisoned for his writings, in which inspired Abdul bin Wahab, this just clarifies to me that you are a salafists. The same salafists who are causing anarchy across the Muslim world, the same group who uses suicide bombings and the same group which has caused friction in Pakistan. You talk about Sufism being freemasonary, what about Salafisms after all it was manufactured by the British on the pretext of Arab Nationalism all recorded in history. Do you support the current Saud family who are using the oil money for prostitutes and having a good life while imprisoning those who give dissent to them. So since Saudi is the breeding ground of Salafism, and it supports American agenda then clearly something is wrong.

Dude just SHUT UP for a minute! I merely typed on google "corrupt scholars in Islam hadith" and came across a website which contained all these hadith. You are new and do not know me much because as much as i have been criticizing Qadri i did even more about Saudi arabia and Turkey. If the website content or the author turns out to be a salafists then its not my fault because i was only looking for hadiths. And NO i am not a salafist!

I am a huge supporter of these videos
"Saudi America, Servant & Master" Documentary 1/4 - YouTube
How the Islamic Caliphate was destroyed: A historical perspective [Documentary] - YouTube

The last Hadith is your interpretation and TUQ does not get paid by the regime or sleeps in palaces. The quote of “There will be a people from my Ummah who will study the Deen deeply (Quran etc.) and will say lets go and visit the ruler we may get some of the worldly benefit (by visiting them) and we will never make them spoil our Deen" does not link to Qadri. First Qadri did not visit the ruler, he had a march..clear distinction and difference. Second he did not ask any worldly gains and unless you can read his mind this hypothesis is wrong. Third you should link this to the Saudi Imams in Mecca who live in palaces and visit there rulers quite often. Fourth he does not support MQM. Yes Islamic Leaders do stand by there words, but unlike Abdul Bin Wahab, they don't get kicked out from Najaf through bring innovation. He was a British agent fully appreciated by the Empire for weakning the Ottiomans in the Arab peninsula.

I forgot to DELETE useless interpretation before the last hadith. TuQ does not get paid by the regime, thats what you are made to believe but the way how PPP officials were reacting in TuQ's container clearly indicates that the government does not fear him and TuQ compromised with them.
TuQ does not support MQM? hmmm sure i will believe you
Dr.Farooq Sattar (MQM) views about Shaykh-ul-Islam Dr.Tahir-ul-Qadri - YouTube
Dr Muhammad Tahir Ul Qadri In Mqm Markaz 9.0 Karachi.By Visaal - YouTube