Pastor plans to burn effigy of Prophet of Islam

[gambit]

gambit, lets not change the goalposts here. I think I was very clear when I mentioned that if you want to burn flags or effigies of presidents of muslim countries go ahead and do it. Hell, I would'nt be surprised if some Pakistanis joined in the burning of a Zardari effigy in NYC.

Not at all.

The question is what justifies attacking the holy books and prophet of Muslims? Lets look at like for like here. And just selectively choosing news articles about a radical in Indonesia is not comparable. Arn't there hate crimes against muslims in the US? What about the recent shootings of two elderly Sikhs who were killed just because they "looked" muslim. Lets not get there.

And burning the US flag is not comparable to burning the Quran. Burning the bible or Torah IS. So now how many muslims have burnt the Bible or the Torah? No muslim religious scholar would justify its burning becuase like I mentioned they are part of muslim belief.

My grudge is not against the crazy pastor, because ofcourse he is crazy. Just as stupid it was some Taliban foot soldiers to use this as an excuse to kill UN aid workers in Afghanistan. What I don't understand is how some posters here can even justify his actions by weasel words and weak arguments like, "they burn our flag and say "Death to America"" so we can burn their holy book".

Ofcourse without defining who "they" are. Its a very weak argument and any sane person would clearly see that as bigotry in the extreme.

What justify the burning of the Quran is the same as what justify the 'art' piece called 'Piss Christ'. The issue is not that the Quran burning is somehow a 'response' for US flag burnings popular in the ME. The issue is that in the West, the default position is that nothing is a sacred cow. No religious beliefs are immune from criticisms. No prophets or political figures are immune from mockery. We believe this freedom is universal but it rests upon the individual on how far and passionate he wants to exercise that freedom. We do not believe that THIS individual limit should be imposed by the State but by moral persuasions from without and self discipline from within. This is applicable to burning the Quran, the Bible, or a national flag.

Is that too alien to grasp? Must be...

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

I think burning of religious books only inflames and it does not serve the purpose.

 

[gambit]

I think burning of religious books only inflames and it does not serve the purpose.

A Bible or a Quran is just as much a significant emotional figure as a crucifix or a crescent moon.

Piss Christ - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Piss Christ is a 1987 photograph by artist and photographer Andres Serrano. It depicts a small plastic crucifix submerged in a glass of the artist's urine. The piece was a winner of the Southeastern Center for Contemporary Art's "Awards in the Visual Arts" competition,[1] which is sponsored in part by the National Endowment for the Arts, a United States Government agency that offers support and funding for artistic projects.

I do not recall seeing mass riots in the US and anywhere else in Christendom, especially the Vatican, where people die.

 

[ephone]

As for your living colour, I just put the whole thing I wrote that you refer to:

"However, even US cannot get away with that since US labels itself as democratic country and chant human rights day in and day out. Remember those US soldiers got Court-martial-ed after committing those killings in Iraq. As I have said, that is why US cannot win in Iraq and Afghanistan either. War is brutal and if you remove the brutal part, you cannot win unfortunately."

You accuse me by writing:
"I took notes the day when you said "America has too much human rights" and "US Army should commit more atrocities" (I paraphrase slightly but the gist remains)."

Where the heck did I write or indicate US Army should commit more atrocities???

I simply analyze the issue as well as tactics from both sides and infer from what I observe. Just like when I observe the Palestinian and Israel conflicts, I also wrote (the gist): Palestinian, as well as many muslims, could not defeat Israel so as drive them out of mid-east since they are so militarily disadvantaged and have no power to do so. On the other hand, even Israel has military up-hand and with the backing of U.S., they do have the power and ways to totally annihilate the Palestinian, however, human rights issues, different sides from democracy systems as well as all the political intricacy in the west would prevent them ever to do such crazy thing. So in the end, none can win in this conflict. Both sides need make concession to see possible peace in the long run. And the central issue is for Israel to stop the settlement building and divide Jerusalem. Of course, Palestinian need stop those attacks at Israel as well.

By your logic, am I encouraging Israel to annihilate Palestinian??? Am I also too pro-Jewish??? Since IPakMan indeed disagree with my suggestion of stopping settlement building and dividing Jerusalem.

About your other parts of comments, I can see why you nearly flunked out of ESL. I am not sure whether you have made any improvement at all. Maybe that is typical street-gang english???

Stupid is as stupid does. If you still think Sadam is the face of "Islam", then Mao must be the ambassador for Confucius to you.

By noble Forrest Gump, you are stoopid alright.

If you think speaking out against the War On Iraq means "defending" Bin Laden, then you need to get a refund from your 工农兵大学 ...

Yes, you should worry about "being thrown out" ... Mr. "GIs need to commit more war crimes".




Notify? Before you suck?

Look what's that gooey stuff dripping down the side of your mouth?

O saliva you say ... never mind.

Do "notify the authorities" when you develop the "intention" ... There are schools and programs to help you so you won't have to turn these tricks ...




Context - does that mean anything to you? Method - does that mean anything to you? You don't think people here know more than you about the history and present of the Muslim world, glory and warts and all? If you can't sing carols, stay home during Christmas. Not everyday is the season for you to canvas the neighborhood and remind people about The Inquisition.




As you wish, in living colour.

What's the matter, did you not say that America could not "win" the War On Iraq because it "court-martialed soldiers for crimes"? Wait, are you telling me that Citizen Chan does not have faith in Democracy? He does not have faith in the "rule of law"? Or could it be that he is a closet "defeatist", "Commie" 5th columnist who is against "American Values"?

O my my, what is he doing then in the land of the free?

Wait, don't tell me. Tell the FBI, fool.




You know nothing about Pakistan. That's all. It's shameful to pretend otherwise. You knew nothing when you came to this forum, and you know nothing now.

You care not to learn. But you think you are fit to preach.




Okaaaay ... or is that "weird"? Funny in high school nobody minded my Chinglish. But can I apologize for offending Mr. Secular Scholar? What can I say, I nearly flunked out of ESL back in the days ...

I know nothing about colloquial, idiomatic, everyday English next to the Peasant Intellectual.

Sollie.

 

[saleen_s7]

People burn religious books all the time. Matter of fact, in Guantanamo Bay, torturers burn the Quran in order to cause resentment within the prisoners. Not to mention, there are many incidents when the Quran has been burned and has caused no reaction. It is solely to be blamed on the media, which wanted to instigate certain sectors of the Islamic society. Even few months ago, extremist christians in america has killed a doctor for practicing abortion.

 

[fallstuff]

Good to see none of the Chinese or Pakistani posters treat him as a Chinese.

I wonder why he still keeps that Chinese flag in his profile anyway.

He probably got his a*s kicked by some Muslim guys.

Why Chinese flag ?
My take, he is a RAW reject. lol.

Reminds me Dave Chappel comedy central clip,

 

[december]

The reaction was not from all front...........yes Some people from Afganisthan reacted to it..................
The very intention of the act was to provoke muslims................But muslims has not Succumbed ..............

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

He probably got his a*s kicked by some Muslim guys.

Why Chinese flag ?
My take, he is a RAW reject. lol.

Reminds me Dave Chappel comedy central clip,

Yeah, it seems he is butthurt about Muslims.

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

He probably got his a*s kicked by some Muslim guys.

Why Chinese flag ?
My take, he is a RAW reject. lol.

I wouldn't be surprised.

Yeah, it seems he is butthurt about Muslims.

I would advise all Chinese/Pakistani/Bangladeshi members not to take this false-flag "ephone" too seriously.

Let him wallow in his own prejudice.

 

[Mabs]

Not at all.


What justify the burning of the Quran is the same as what justify the 'art' piece called 'Piss Christ'. The issue is not that the Quran burning is somehow a 'response' for US flag burnings popular in the ME. The issue is that in the West, the default position is that nothing is a sacred cow. No religious beliefs are immune from criticisms. No prophets or political figures are immune from mockery. We believe this freedom is universal but it rests upon the individual on how far and passionate he wants to exercise that freedom. We do not believe that THIS individual limit should be imposed by the State but by moral persuasions from without and self discipline from within. This is applicable to burning the Quran, the Bible, or a national flag.

Is that too alien to grasp? Must be...

Would i be able to live comfortably in the US without facing any hate speech or threats from the individuals or the state if I decide to condone the 9/11 attacks, and glorify them. Can i sit in front of the white house and chant Long Live OBL, Saddam and 9/11 is the best thing that ever happened, without facing any prosecution? Whatever reasons i might have for my love for OBL,Saddam and the deaths of innocent civilians in the 9/11 attack, but all i am doing is exercising my freedom of speech. I might be a shallow and moral-less individual but can i go to the twin tower site and celebrate the occurrence of the 9/11 attacks?

 

[oceanx]

As for your living colour, I just put the whole thing I wrote that you refer to:

...

About your other parts of comments, I can see why you nearly flunked out of ESL. I am not sure whether you have made any improvement at all. Maybe that is typical street-gang english???

Yes, I promptly flunked out of ESL after breaking the TOEFL record in the school district ... anyways, it's the internet ... I can claim to be as much a professor as you are.

O wait ... hell no! I ain't even close.

Let me serve it up to you straight in "street gang" English, or street-gang Chinese if it helps you "absorb" better.

Of the whole lot that I have seen around here, you have the least of what it takes to play "Citizen Chan". I could spot just how poorly you are "equipped" to handle this "game" from a mile away from the way you fumble the usage of even the most elementary "buzz words".

Don't for a minute presume you can out-suck the suckers. Even "sucking" takes skills, which, I am sorry to say, you utterly lack. The sad truth is that you possess neither the command of the language, nor a knowledge in history/politics to make it "fun" or instructive.

We can all focus on "好好做人" ... And just claiming to have good intentions is not a good enough excuse.

 

[gambit]

Would i be able to live comfortably in the US without facing any hate speech or threats from the individuals or the state if I decide to condone the 9/11 attacks, and glorify them. Can i sit in front of the white house and chant Long Live OBL, Saddam and 9/11 is the best thing that ever happened, without facing any prosecution? Whatever reasons i might have for my love for OBL,Saddam and the deaths of innocent civilians in the 9/11 attack, but all i am doing is exercising my freedom of speech. I might be a shallow and moral-less individual but can i go to the twin tower site and celebrate the occurrence of the 9/11 attacks?

Yes you can. Did you ask those questions out of genuine curiosity or was there a meaningless rhetorical point somewhere? Legally speaking, there are no laws preventing anyone from expressing admiration for the 9/11 terrorists. Americans can challenge or even insult you but they cannot compel authorities to prosecute you. If any American assault you, he will be prosecuted for violating your right to free speech.

 

[gambit]

People burn religious books all the time. Matter of fact, in Guantanamo Bay, torturers burn the Quran in order to cause resentment within the prisoners. Not to mention, there are many incidents when the Quran has been burned and has caused no reaction. It is solely to be blamed on the media, which wanted to instigate certain sectors of the Islamic society. Even few months ago, extremist christians in america has killed a doctor for practicing abortion.

What happened to the doctor's killer? Let me guess...Somehow you 'forgot' to mention it?

 

[below_freezing]

Burning the US flag is great. China manufactures 60% of the world's chemical fibers, red white and blue ones can be exported to Pakistan, Bangladesh and Jordan to make US flags that then are promptly burned.

We should even have a new product line of easily flammable fibers specifically for US flag burning use that have environmentally friendly combustion products, light easily, and are non-toxic.

... that gives me a great business idea!

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

My take, he is a RAW reject. lol.

Playing to the gallery?

Has everyone to conform to the stereotype?