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Partying with jihadis

Kindly answer post 27, then we will go further on discussion.
Don't call names. I can do better than you and you will not find those pleasant.
read again, i haven't called anyone any names, just spade a spade.

Your PM was chillin around with the Bugti back then who was later declared as enemy of the state and bombed by your military. Is it that difficult to comprehend?
 
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US has done much that it needs to account for. They formed the Haqqanis and sat with them supping tea and now they dare to criticize Pakistan. Anyway they are right about politicians. PPPP and PMLN have all contested elections with ASWJ as partners. Mian Mithoo was appointed by PPPP, Rinkle Kumari and Rimsha Masih incidents happened during their rule. I have constantly been saying this and say so again. PPPP fools people by talking about its liberal inclinations but in reality is the worst mullahistic party in the country. Even Abdul Aziz was released by them. These politicians have no right to talk about militaries militant support when they themselves are rolling in the dust.
 
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read again, i haven't called anyone any names, just spade a spade.
it is idiotic

Your PM was chillin around with the Bugti back then who was later declared as enemy of the state and bombed by your military. Is it that difficult to comprehend?
became governor of Baluchistan. Then assassinated by someone on political differences. Court had issued arrest warrants of Pervez Musharraf in his murder case. His relatives still hold key positions in govt. What is your point of sharing his pic ?
Comprehension problem is not on my side!
Even I shared when he was chilling with founder of country but,
I am still waiting to get what bugti has to do with this thread.
 
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read again, i haven't called anyone any names, just spade a spade.

Your PM was chillin around with the Bugti back then who was later declared as enemy of the state and bombed by your military. Is it that difficult to comprehend?


Apparently yes. Conceptual language is not exactly a strong point it seems, isn't it? More of action oriented is the forte here.
 
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These were just mercenaries frankly, the notion that these were some holy warriors is absurd. No matter what anyone thinks. US used them, Pakistan used them and india used them and has been using them.

Extremism has been promoted because such groups were tolerated by everyone.

Sir you are ignoring that related history that dates back to the years BEFORE Pakistan was even born. There was no sinister plan to destabilize Afghanistan from Pakistani side.

The unrest in Afghanistan is not something that WE created. People need to understand that there were traditionally two forces at work in Afghanistan for quite a few years. The tribes/people from those northers states, the Uzbek/Tajiks and others. They never adjusted well with the Pashtuns so the differences were ALWAYS there.

Daoud was educated in the west and had somewhat secular views. He did re initiated that Pashtun movement in order to get the Pathans of Afghanistan and Pakistan together and proclaim all that land (that is NWFP). It was more of an attempt to get those people join Afghanistan rather than a purely nationalist movement for Pathans however it did had that adverse effect. Those northern tribes took that as a Pashtun movement and were uncomfortable by the increased Pashtun influence and thus the unrest grew. Remember, there were internal rifts and unrest in the area. Also it is a well-known fact that in the 60s Daoud was responsible for sending troops into our north western areas and Pashtun belt to manipulate those Pathan tribes but they were beaten badly and ran back. We closed the borders and Afghanistan felt the heat because of being a land locked country. He did sort of reunited the Pashtun movement but it the roots can be traced to times before Pakistan was even created and when Daoud restarted it in the 50s/60s it was primarily a move to include our NWFP region and tribes in Afghanistan. Those plans were cut short after the infiltrators were not met with open arms as they would have thought and rather got a beating of a life time and also since Daoud resigned after the new constitution by the King and because the Tajiks, all that time, felt that it will further undermine there importance in national politics so they were hatching plans of there own against the regime.

He did came back later however after he threw there king out, decided to be friend with the communists and started training terrorists for cross border activity in NWFP as well as Baluchistan, again, a very well know fact. However Tajiks and Uzbeks were not very friendly to the regime because of the reasons stated earlier and a LARGE part of Pashtuns were not comfortable either because of those secular and then communist friendly attitude. The communist influence was growing, the Afghans pathans were not happy either, the west was not happy as well. One thing lead to another and we TOGETHER with west started supporting that anti-Daoud faction in order to stop those attacks in our land. The unrest and dissatisfaction WITHIN Afghanistan grew so much that the Ruskies decided enough is enough, their stooge is no longer able to handle the situation and in came the bear! Rest is what we all know!

The reason we supported Mujahedeen’s in Afghanistan was NOT only that they were Muslim Jihadi or that we were afraid Russians will be coming to us next but also because we were part of that anti-Russia/Communist western block! Stating it as if it a Pakistan specif decision and was taken to simply destabilize Afghanistan is unfair and overlooking all the facts.

This is a long debate and its not that simple. What could have happened had Pakistan supported Zahir shah against the communist regime instead of various factions called peshawar seven. The real story begins when the soviets left. The destruction of Afghanistan at the hands of hikmatyar and then others really created the problem we see today.

May be the taliban would never have emerged. Naseer Ullah babar might not have looked to them had the peshawar seven formed a unity govt instead of fighting. Then the Alqaeda might not have gained ground, so we never know.

In all honesty, all players in the region have been responsible. US has a habit of leaving the trash after the party that is why many including me do not agree with Pakistan establishment teaming up with CIA to fight the soviets. You of course have the right to disagree.
 
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When somebody tells truth about Pakistan & truth is humiliating & not what they are taught & what they believe, Pakistanis immediately will say he's a traitor, he's useless, he's mad, without pointing out why he's traitor, why he's useless or why he's mad. Or the other simple answer to expect if it's in Indian favor - Indian agent. Or simple thing is deviate from topic or use abusive words on the person who has posted it


I have posted this video before. And again mention Hamid Bashani is a Kashmiri & he only speaks based on researched & analysed true facts. He's a rational minded person whose views are always neutral & also open for debate if anybody feels he has give wrong historical information & accepts mistakes if you give him proof saying what he said is wrong.

Let's see what's our fellow Pakistani brothers response after watching this video. If you do proper analysis of historical facts & accept & acknowledge reality Pakistan will be a different place all together
 
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These were just mercenaries frankly, the notion that these were some holy warriors is absurd. No matter what anyone thinks. US used them, Pakistan used them and india used them and has been using them.

Extremism has been promoted because such groups were tolerated by everyone.



This is a long debate and its not that simple. What could have happened had Pakistan supported Zahir shah against the communist regime instead of various factions called peshawar seven. The real story begins when the soviets left. The destruction of Afghanistan at the hands of hikmatyar and then others really created the problem we see today.

May be the taliban would never have emerged. Naseer Ullah babar might not have looked to them had the peshawar seven formed a unity govt instead of fighting. Then the Alqaeda might not have gained ground, so we never know.

In all honesty, all players in the region have been responsible. US has a habit of leaving the trash after the party that is why many including me do not agree with Pakistan establishment teaming up with CIA to fight the soviets. You of course have the right to disagree.
Quite true! Apart from supporting that Zahir shah part as he had no control or influence over the country and choose to live in exile and we (the world) needed assets on ground to fight what was known as THE BEAR!

However i do agree that IF those factions would not have fought among themselves and decided to form a unified government things would have been pretty different. The problem is the US left as soon as its own agenda was met and since that anti-Russian Afghan alliance was more out of necessity than love fight broke. After that, everyone was after securing there own interests. We had to choose between the fighting groups and we chose Taliban over Northern Alliance for ethnic and sectarian reasons.

If we talk about our responsibility, i would say up to this point we were doing it right. The problem came when the group we backed came to power and frankly we never did much to help there government or whatever that was. One reason that people who will be jumping to bash us will conveniently ignore was out own lack of resources so i wont present it as an excuse. It is a fact one can choose to deny just like the fact that we could and should have done better than what we did once Taliban were in power and tried to negotiate some sort of system in the way they handled things. There are all "ifs" now and we have our share of them just like the rest of the players have there whether any of us admits it or not.
 
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Comprehension problem is not on my side!
Even I shared when he was chilling with founder of country but,
I am still waiting to get what bugti has to do with this thread.
When some one posts a pic of haqqani in whitehouse to imply support to Jihadist elements, a pic of Bugti is in the same stride to show you the mirror.
 
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See, @django, @The Sandman? Rather than spewing baseless hatred as a response, @Arsalan provides a quality post that adds depth and understanding to the discussion. Arsalan, will you add some links as references, please?

(Django et al, also see here.)
 
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See, @django, @The Sandman? Rather than spewing baseless hatred as a response, @Arsalan provides a quality post that adds depth and understanding to the discussion. Arsalan, will you add some links as references, please?

(Django et al, also see here.)
I am not spewing hatred ,I am just telling you the truth which is that you are blind due to your dogmatic support to the illegitimate state that is Israel .Kudos
 
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See, @django, @The Sandman? Rather than spewing baseless hatred as a response, @Arsalan provides a quality post that adds depth and understanding to the discussion. Arsalan, will you add some links as references, please?

(Django et al, also see here.)
What baseless hatred we're spewing? You only know one thing and that is to spread your anti-Pak anti-Islam propaganda and never bothers to look at your own countries first don't know if it's israel or US
 
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Partying with Jihadis? Hmmm the same ones that israel openly supports in Syria, Libya etc? The moderate rebels which brutally execute their prisoners like ISIS?
 
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Partying with Jihadis? Hmmm the same ones that israel openly supports in Syria, Libya etc? The moderate rebels which brutally execute their prisoners like ISIS?
It's all propaganda according to our zionist member here every country is a saint except Pakistan according to him.
 
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