Partition - an estimate of the population changes

[roadrunner]

As per Ghosh's paper "Population Movements and Interstate conflicts in South Asia"

15mn people had migrated.
7.2mn muslims to Pakistan
7.8mn non muslims to India
in the 50's and 60's several million hindus from Pakistan to India...

cheers

7.2 Muslims into Pakistan Yep, right. even the census figures won't give that much. I hope you realize that West Pakistan and East Pakistan would be included in this migration statistics you give. ie..the 7.8 million and 7.2 million figure (ludicrous), but this would be for Bangladesh as well. All you seem to do is post irrelevant, misinformation to suit a whacked agenda that has been disproved a hundred times in many different forums.

 

[aryan2007]

7.2 Muslims into Pakistan Yep, right. even the census figures won't give that much. I hope you realize that West Pakistan and East Pakistan would be included in this migration statistics you give. ie..the 7.8 million and 7.2 million figure (ludicrous), but this would be for Bangladesh as well.

an overwhelming majority of population exchange took place because in 1905 Bengal had already been parititoned..

All you seem to do is post irrelevant, misinformation to suit a whacked agenda that has been disproved a hundred times in many different forums.

I quote the same to you..

 

[aryan2007]

And what? This says that no Indian moved into Pakistan between 1951-1961 basically, whilst perhaps a million Pakistanis moved into India (it doesnt even suggest how the people are known to have come from Pakistan and not say Bangaldesh).

well this is for Pakistan and not Bangladesh

For Bangladesh

The figure is 5.5mn Hindus who migrated from East Pakistan/Bangladesh to India uptil 1947-1965 as per The Indian commission of jurist's report.

REcurrent Exodus of minorities from East Pakistan and Distrubances in India: A report to the Indian commission of jurist's by its committee of enquiry, New Delhi, 1965 pp 309-312..

PS: Fight academically not with emotions


Anyhow, this is irrelevant nonsense as usual, an addition 1 million people into a country of 450 million is going to make an impact of 0.20% i.e. Nothing.

Stop posting irrelevant stuff. Your target is to just fill up threads with useless information..a typical troll.

I quote the same again to you..

 

[roadrunner]

an overwhelming majority of population exchange took place because in 1905 Bengal had already been parititoned..

This makes no sense in the context of what was originally written. Go play your games with someone else. I'm not interested unless you can answer the original post, of how the calculation is wrong. You prove it with links and figures that the figures used in my calculation are wrong, instead of writing a load of irrelevant stuff.

 

[EagleEyes]

Infractions have been issued. Please calm down.

Thanks.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

So to summarize - given the Muslim population in 1941, and the population growth rate, the variance between the projected population in 1951 and the actual population in 1951 (per census) only indicates an immigrant population of a million or so, and cannot explain the "6 to 7" million figure.

RR, does your calculation also take into account the growth rate of the immigrant population, in terms of contributing to the population size in 1951. If not, then that would indicate an even smaller number of immigrants, would it not?

 

[Scorpius]

Very few Pakistanis are mohajir. I don't even know one.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Very few Pakistanis are mohajir. I don't even know one.

After sixty years, I would be surprised if there were a lot of "mohajir". All the children born in Pakistan in Mohajir families are proper "Pakkay Pakistani"!

The word Mohajir means "immigrant" does it not, so technically only those who weren't born here should be considered Mohajir.

 

[Scorpius]

I meant as in being able to trace there ancestry back before the partition period to the land which is now Pakistan. My family, relatives I know and other pakis I know can do this.

Mohajirs mother tongue is urdu, most pakis mother tongue is some form of punjabi (potwari mostly i think).

Plus they mostly reside in Karachi I believe, so it should be easy to tell them apart.

 

[roadrunner]

So to summarize - given the Muslim population in 1941, and the population growth rate, the variance between the projected population in 1951 and the actual population in 1951 (per census) only indicates an immigrant population of a million or so, and cannot explain the "6 to 7" million figure.

6 to 7 million is an obvious lie, considering the census data is the most accurate data (even if inaccurate), that one has to go on.

RR, does your calculation also take into account the growth rate of the immigrant population, in terms of contributing to the population size in 1951. If not, then that would indicate an even smaller number of immigrants, would it not?

Total number of immigrants would have been around 1.4 million during partition (using a 2% population growth) for the immigrant population. Today there'd be around 9 million "Partition Muhajir" community descendants, out of a population of 160 million. It's quite a small percentage that would not have affected the native popution very much. Most are probably in Karachi and eastern Pakistani cities most likely.

But the 7-8 million figure is just bogus, and isn't derived from census data.

 

[Vinod2070]

Vinod:

You mentioned that "facts do not support perceptions" and you yourself throw in one "mis perception" about the status of minorities in Pakistan - that of their low number. I think it would be incorrect to state that without showing that low number is not because of the migration out of Pakistan, similar to the migration out of India. Pakistan's population being smaller than India's would show a much greater percentage change. Also, what percentage of the minorities that did remain in Pakistan were in East Pakistan?

I am saying this after reading up quite a bit on this issue, but obviously I am open to being corrected if anyone has better data.

There is no denying that Pakistan is now almost 97% Muslim, so there are hardly any minorities left there. This is a factually correct statement. So what we are really discussing is the reason for this state of affairs, not its veracity.

I have read that all 4 provinces now part of Pakistan had significant Hindu populations (obviously in varying %, NWFP and Baluchistan having much less %). Sindh and Punjab of course had a big Hindu/Sikh population. Lahore was a thriving center of Hindu/Sikh culture and it's economy was dominated by them.

They were certainly much larger than the 1.5% odd that they are now. Now partition and the accompanying violence and migration played a big part in this. But partition happened for both India and Pakistan. And migration took place on both sides. But India did not wipe out it's Muslim population to the same extent. And then let's look at the trend of the minority population (just in Western Pakistan) since 1947, does it tell something about the state of affairs in the two countries?

The idea here is to discuss just the facts and not to derive judgement based on that. To deny the plain facts would not be right.

The issue of "history" that is repeatedly brought up is also incorrect to a large extent - I studied under that curriculum, and at no point do I remember being indoctrinated with "Hate Hindus" or any such nonsense. Yes there was an argument made that the Muslim communities that eventually made up Pakistan had to separate to protect their interests, but that does not equate "teaching hatred".

AM, here I would just recount the story of the diplomat who was called "Hindu Kuttay" by a 5 year old when he went to the home of a Pakistani. This is a well known and published story and many people here would be aware of that.

I don't know your personal experiences but obviously they are not the equivalent of the average Pakistani.

This is not to say that many Indians may not have deeply ingrained prejudices.