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Pakistan's top ten Enemies.

Jigs in full agreement with you, regarding Kemalist view, the religious right have managed to have some propaganda regarding it. Ataturk, I repeat was not against religion, he was only against the clerical class, who used their power to keep a society from modernity.

Ataturk IMHO was a true Muslim, and is a Muslim hero, later things such as the head scarf ban, are wrongly attributed to him - because his own wife wore the head scarf.

If we in Pakistan manage to achieve half of what Turkey has achieved we would have done aright.

There is a perception some have that Ataturk was against Islam but he never was. He only wanted people to practice it freely but he didn't want people to bring it into politics or force it on the people. Also not to have any laws based on it. It does sadden me when people talk of Ataturk in negative ways when they have not researched anything about him. How he champion women rights and implemented science and mathematics into Turkish schools.
 
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Dear Jigs…There is no doubt in my mind that Mustafa Kamal is a great War Hero for Modern Turkey which you admire a lot but nothing else. For us, SA Muslims the Turkey they know is not just 90 years old i/o its a country over 900 years great history. The country whose people has a great effects on Muslim civilization of SA from Kashmir to Bengal from Dehli to Hyderabad (Daccan). The Turkey for which you people only spit in these threads quite a lot but a country for whom’s independence in WW1 our forefathers gave every kind of sacrifice both at material and human end.

For me Mustafa Kamal is not better than any other War general i.e. nepolian, stalin etc who becomes arrogant after succeeding in any of their military campaign, the one who becomes more power hungry the moment he grabs anything significant. So basically he is an ordinary war general.

In order to undermine Ottomans MK exaggerated too much on western civilization on the expense of eastern one and this purely called power politics which he succeeded in very well after finally abolishing Khilifat in 1922-24.

He needlessly abolish Arabic/Persian alphabet towards latin just to seal the coffins of ottomans over his throne.

Below are some historical facts

“Atatürk's reform of the alphabet was, however, primarily motivated by a specific political goal: to break the link with the Ottoman and Islamic past and to orientate the new state of Turkey towards the West and away from the traditional Ottoman lands of the Middle East. He commented on one occasion that the symbolic meaning of the reform was for the Turkish nation to "show with its script and mentality that it is on the side of world civilization." Karpat, Kemal H. "A Language in Search of a Nation: Turkish in the Nation-State", in Studies on Turkish politics and society: selected articles and essays, p. 457. BRILL, 2004.

The Turkish writer Şerif Mardin has noted that "Atatürk imposed the mandatory Latin alphabet in order to promote the national awareness of the Turks against a wider Muslim identity. The explicitly nationalistic and ideological character of the alphabet reform was illustrated by the booklets issued by the government to teach the population the new script. It included sample phrases aimed at discrediting the Ottoman government and instilling updated "Turkish" values, such as: "Atatürk allied himself with the nation and drove the sultans out of the homeland"; "Taxes are spent for the common properties of the nation. Tax is a debt we need to pay"; "It is the duty of every Turk to defend the homeland against the enemies." The alphabet reform was promoted as redeeming the Turkish people from the neglect of the Ottoman rulers: "Sultans did not think of the public, Ghazi commander [Atatürk] saved the nation from enemies and slavery. And now, he declared a campaign against ignorance. He armed the nation with the new Turkish alphabet."

Atatürk told his friend Falih Rıfkı Atay, who was on the government's Language Commission, that by carrying out the reform "we were going to cleanse the Turkish mind from its Arabic roots."
Toprak, p. 145, fn. 20

That’s why I’m against Kamalism and Kamalists they too only play power politics nothing else.
 
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Zardari and almost all politicians
Some Generals
Capitalism
Feudalism
Tribalism
India
America
Britain
Israel
Current Afghan regime
 
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Dear Jigs…There is no doubt in my mind that Mustafa Kamal is a great War Hero for Modern Turkey which you admire a lot but nothing else. For us, SA Muslims the Turkey they know is not just 90 years old i/o its a country over 900 years great history. The country whose people has a great effects on Muslim civilization of SA from Kashmir to Bengal from Dehli to Hyderabad (Daccan). The Turkey for which you people only spit in these threads quite a lot but a country for whom’s independence in WW1 our forefathers gave every kind of sacrifice both at material and human end.

For me Mustafa Kamal is not better than any other War general i.e. nepolian, stalin etc who becomes arrogant after succeeding in any of their military campaign, the one who becomes more power hungry the moment he grabs anything significant. So basically he is an ordinary war general.

In order to undermine Ottomans MK exaggerated too much on western civilization on the expense of eastern one and this purely called power politics which he succeeded in very well after finally abolishing Khilifat in 1922-24.

He needlessly abolish Arabic/Persian alphabet towards latin just to seal the coffins of ottomans over his throne.

Below are some historical facts

“Atatürk's reform of the alphabet was, however, primarily motivated by a specific political goal: to break the link with the Ottoman and Islamic past and to orientate the new state of Turkey towards the West and away from the traditional Ottoman lands of the Middle East. He commented on one occasion that the symbolic meaning of the reform was for the Turkish nation to "show with its script and mentality that it is on the side of world civilization." Karpat, Kemal H. "A Language in Search of a Nation: Turkish in the Nation-State", in Studies on Turkish politics and society: selected articles and essays, p. 457. BRILL, 2004.

The Turkish writer Şerif Mardin has noted that "Atatürk imposed the mandatory Latin alphabet in order to promote the national awareness of the Turks against a wider Muslim identity. The explicitly nationalistic and ideological character of the alphabet reform was illustrated by the booklets issued by the government to teach the population the new script. It included sample phrases aimed at discrediting the Ottoman government and instilling updated "Turkish" values, such as: "Atatürk allied himself with the nation and drove the sultans out of the homeland"; "Taxes are spent for the common properties of the nation. Tax is a debt we need to pay"; "It is the duty of every Turk to defend the homeland against the enemies." The alphabet reform was promoted as redeeming the Turkish people from the neglect of the Ottoman rulers: "Sultans did not think of the public, Ghazi commander [Atatürk] saved the nation from enemies and slavery. And now, he declared a campaign against ignorance. He armed the nation with the new Turkish alphabet."

Atatürk told his friend Falih Rıfkı Atay, who was on the government's Language Commission, that by carrying out the reform "we were going to cleanse the Turkish mind from its Arabic roots."
Toprak, p. 145, fn. 20

That’s why I’m against Kamalism and Kamalists they too only play power politics nothing else.

Well i agree with that. We should not be mixed with Arabs as we have nothing in common with them and they have nothing in common with us. We as Turks had our own history one that was beyond the ottoman empire and Islam. We lacked nationalism that was a issue. Turks had no identity till after world war 1. The ottoman empire as far to multinational and aristocratic in nature and that shut out Turkish identity. Ataturk was far more then a military leader. He saved Turks from total destruction and showed us our identity. Had we gone the puppet sultan route almost all of turkey would be under foreign control.

I also find it funny people keep saying Turkey is weak because of secularism when in fact we are the must developed Muslim country in the world. That isn't a opinion it is a fact go check the numbers.
 
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Well i agree with that. We should not be mixed with Arabs as we have nothing in common with them and they have nothing in common with us. We as Turks had our own history one that was beyond the ottoman empire and Islam. We lacked nationalism that was a issue. Turks had no identity till after world war 1. The ottoman empire as far to multinational and aristocratic in nature and that shut out Turkish identity. Ataturk was far more then a military leader. He saved Turks from total destruction and showed us our identity. Had we gone the puppet sultan route almost all of turkey would be under foreign control.

I also find it funny people keep saying Turkey is weak because of secularism when in fact we are the must developed Muslim country in the world. That isn't a opinion it is a fact go check the numbers.


Turks and Persians are two unique entity in Islamic world(I left East Asians out because of them being far from Arab lands) who maintains and admire strong and distinct culture of their own.
 
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Well i agree with that. We should not be mixed with Arabs as we have nothing in common with them and they have nothing in common with us. We as Turks had our own history one that was beyond the ottoman empire and Islam. We lacked nationalism that was a issue. Turks had no identity till after world war 1. The ottoman empire as far to multinational and aristocratic in nature and that shut out Turkish identity. Ataturk was far more then a military leader. He saved Turks from total destruction and showed us our identity. Had we gone the puppet sultan route almost all of turkey would be under foreign control.

For God's Sack than why are you coming back to ME/Arabs/East on Palestinian issue, just for another cheap power politics as usual with Europe, Not any more, Pls forgives us you "turncoats".

I also find it funny people keep saying Turkey is weak because of secularism when in fact we are the must developed Muslim country in the world. That isn't a opinion it is a fact go check the numbers.

Most developed country in Muslim world after embracing Islam once again but not in purely secularists regimes, Go check numbers...
 
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For God's Sack than why are you coming back to ME/Arabs/East on Palestinian issue, just for another cheap power politics as usual with Europe, Not any more, Pls forgives us you "turncoats".



Most developed country in Muslim world after embracing Islam once again but not in purely secularists regimes, Go check numbers...

You mean what Erdogan is doing ? I dont associate myself with the man or his party. I think you should take a look at our debt since he came into power and the net error from the Turkish central banks(money that can't be accounted for). Turks have always embraced Islam least till the 6th-7th century conversion.


We are getting off topic here. Like i said Imam Hatip schools should be implemented in Pakistan to shutdown the crazies running around in the country. More government regulation is needed here. Pakistan has talked to Turkey about this implementation and so has a few other countries. So i hope they use it.
 
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People: Stop discussing Ataturk - this thread is not about him .

For the footnote , Ataturk was the greatest Muslim general we have produced in last 200 years , he was a revolutionist and wasn't against Islam.

Ataturk was the person who saved the Roza of the Holy Prophet Muhammad SAW from being demolished by illiterate Arabs rulers of that time.

Get back to topic.
 
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I think in order to find a solution to these problems, first we have to differentiate between causes and effects or in other words symptoms and causes.
 
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Our Top Ten Enemies
India
Terrorism
Current Government
Afghani Refugees
America
Outdated Laws from Zia ul Haq's times
Mixing Religion with the state
Feudalism
Tribalism
Illiteracy
 
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hello all.

I have thought about this issue for a while & came up with a list of top ten Enemies that we have and we need to wage a war on them if we are to stand up as a great Nation.


Top 10 Enemies of Pakistan:

1: Feudalism

2: Illiteracy

3: Sectarianism

4: Cast system

5: Tribalism

6: Religious & social intolerance , bigotry & Prejudice

7: Social imbalance

8: Materialistic classification

9: Non urbanization

10: Ignorance of our human & cultural Potential


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Many of you would be thinking why i have not added , poverty , bad governance , corruption , bad economy but in my opinion all of these problems arise out of that top ten list as a consequence .

If We deal with those 10 issues and find solutions ,we will alleviate all major issues that we face. We would become a nation which would produce great leaders and politicians , technocrats , professionals and every other aspect we need to progress and stand up as a great nation.

share your thoughts please.

:pakistan:
Regards:

Dear Black Blood, it is good that you are disccusing this issue, I am recent member on this forum and would like your opinion on my posts.

I think solution of our problems lies in education for unity based on social justice and fair play. Merit based society is absolutely necessary for better future. The question is how to get these things?

Education can be achieved by individual efforts not by abolishing whatever little we have but by improving upon it by removing things that cause problems.

We all have families and friends so if we start improving education of each other by way of selfhelp, we can still achieve a lot despite others opposing us who feel education of masses is a threat to their position or status in society.

These poeple are everywhere in the world. How many people really lend their shoulders to others to stand on them and go yet higher? This whole world is mentally stuck when it comes to thinking at a highier level. Almost all people show their leadership position by trying to keep others below them by all means they can use against them. If humanity wants to develop and progress then they need to change this mentality. We need to replace this idea by idea of top man lending his shoulder to help the one's below him rise above and take the banner for taking humanity yet highier.

A lot of human resource goes to waste over petty thinking. We need to remove shackles of all sorts from the human society and replace them with supporting pillars so that we all could rise in level on basis of merit. The attitudes need to be changed from that of hindrance to facilitation. By accepting this principle all will rise because all are interlinked and interdependent. If top man is really standing on merits then he cam only rise as other rise from below him.

Let me explain by an example, let's suppose we are standing on each other. If the man at the very bottom rises up the man on the top will go up as well and so will all others who are above or below each other. So if we want to rise we need to help each other so that we all rise up relative to each other according to our own heights.

Now imagine each person on top of the other, pushes the one below him down, what will happen? All will come down by at least same level or at most this human column will collapse altogether. So it is best to think positive and worst to think negative.

Society is fine the way it is structured, all it needs is education to unite and organise itself better for better political results by creating a culture that is progressive towards prosperity and happiness for all.

We cannot do away with hierarchy it is not possible because we need organisation for aiming for anything in life. This is why humans are families, clans andtribes and we are leaders and followers, employers and employees, teachers and students etc etc. if we could live without each other then all this could not have come about. So its better to understand things and try to see how they can be used positively. What we can have is democracy, that is more and more transparent and accountable with biting teeth.

The idea is not to take things away from people or to set a ceiling for them to control them from having more rather we should reasonably ensure that people who have do all they can for the society as responsbile members of the society that gave them all this. So we should have a decent minimum standard of living that these people must help maintain. Capitalist and market economy is good because it gives individuals incentives to do better for themselves on basis of merit and opportunity and limits wastage and inefficiency but there have to be laws local, national and international to limit its ill effects on human societies by making the rich pay for the maintance of healthy human society. If there are such international but effective laws that hold people accountable with serious consequences then that will minimise chances of some peole using and abusing others at will.

I do not want to repeat what I have explained in my other posts so please find them there. I agree with you that we have problems but I think we need to think out better solutions than bloodshed and violence if we can avoid it.

regards and all the best.
 
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Our Top Ten Enemies
India
Terrorism
Current Government
Afghani Refugees
America
Outdated Laws from Zia ul Haq's times
Mixing Religion with the state
Feudalism
Tribalism
Illiteracy

And that's why your country is the way it is. Because of the obsession with your Eastern Neighbor :rolleyes:
 
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If you ask me, proper education can solve all these problems.

Costa Rica is the happiest nation accroding to Happy Planet Index 2009.
It is because the govt spent all their money on education and they also demilitarized their nation.

If you see HPI 2009, Pakistan is slightly more happier than India.
 
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And that's why your country is the way it is. Because of the obsession with your Eastern Neighbor :rolleyes:

It's actually the opposite. When Hilary Clinton or some other major leader came to Pakistan people didn't ask her to stop supporting India or call it a terrorist state but when Obama came to India, your students started asking Obama why he supports a terrorist state called Pakistan.

And yes India is a major threat to Pakistan.
 
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1- Geography
2- Geography
3- Geography
4- Geography
5- Geography
6- Geography
7- Geography
8- Geography
9- Geography
10- Geography
 
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