Pakistan's top judge reinstated

[Awesome]

And what would have happened to Mushraff if the CJ was killed?

You would've shouted "boo"?

Lol..a SSG commando, Army Chief and President of the nation didnt know the simplest fact that he has to have ' enough proof ' to suspend the CJ of a country, didnt he have anybody to consult with?

None of which make him a judicial expert. The decision was made by him n Shaukat Aziz. Plus of course he wanted the CJ gone. At hindsight it wasn't worth the shot but when someone presents you an option against your rival you want to take the "risk".

Also, as I said, Musharraf was played. I'm still waiting for a Musharraffian googly, which will unfold in Elections 2008.

There will be one more drama. CJ will hold the Presidential elections hostage by issuing a stay order and try to wait it out for the March 2008 elections and that would make the CJ look anti-democratic by holding back the elections. It's a long wait, from October to March.

If Musharraf's reelected right now then all this does not matter. There will be no deal with BB, CJ can keep his shiny new chambers and flags.

 

[Cheetah786]

Thankfully we are not part of that world.

oh common now you are just starting to become part of the web give time.

 

[Cheetah786]

Lol...dream on...!!!

yeah i can see Indians telling the Americans to f of when the time comes.actually let me rephrase that bull Dream on.

 

[roadrunner]

Constitutional right of the President would be suspend the Cj if he is in reciept of proof and evidence that CJ has misused his authority.

Or does the Constitution says that the President can suspend the CJ at will.

Nope, the President doesn't need any evidence to call an SJC trial for the CJ. Article 209 is clear that the President only needs to be of the opinion that the CJ is guilty to put him on trial..no evidence is required.
just read the bits highlighted.


Article 209
(5) If, on information [231A] [from any source, the Council or] the President is of the opinion that a Judge of the Supreme Court or of a High Court, (a) may be incapable of properly performing the duties of his office by reason of physical or mental incapacity; or
(b) may have been guilty of misconduct,
the President shall direct the Council to [231B] [, or the Council may, on its own motion,] inquire into the matter.

(6) If, after inquiring into the matter, the Council reports to the President that it is of the opinion,
(a) that the Judge is incapable of performing the duties of his office or has been guilty of misconduct, and
(b) that he should be removed from office,
the President may remove the Judge from office.

http://www.pakistani.org/pakistan/constitution/part7.ch4.html

Even point (6) Musharraff has followed to the letter, as he proved today.

 

[roadrunner]

I'll post what I posted on pdf here..it might have more effect since noone seemed capable of understanding english on there - The Constitution was followed to the letter. Just because Pakistani media is trying to justify its atrocious irresponsible position during the CJ affair by calling it illegal does not make what Musharraff did illegal - remember the trial was not over the actions of Musharraff - the trial was over the alleged corruption of the CJ (personally I feel he's guilty, just not enough evidence)..but the president was never on trial here as the media are trying to make out.

Constitutional proof
1) The SJC consists of a panel of judges, one of whom is CJ
Article 209
(2) The Council (SJC) shall consist of,
(a) the Chief Justice of Pakistan;
(b) the two next most senior Judges of the Supreme Court; and
© the two most senior Chief Justices of High Courts.

http://www.pakistani.org/pakistan/constitu.../part7.ch4.html

2) CJ is referred to the SJC if the President is of the opinion that the CJ may have been guilty of misconduct (no definite proof is required, just suspicion), according to section 5 of the same Article

Article 209
(5) If, on information [231A] [from any source, the Council or] the President is of the opinion that a Judge of the Supreme Court or of a High Court,
(a) may be incapable of properly performing the duties of his office by reason of physical or mental incapacity; or
(b) may have been guilty of misconduct,
the President shall direct the Council to [231B] [, or the Council may, on its own motion,] inquire into the matter.

(6) If, after inquiring into the matter, the Council reports to the President that it is of the opinion,
(a) that the Judge is incapable of performing the duties of his office or has been guilty of misconduct, and
(b) that he should be removed from office,
the President may remove the Judge from office.

http://www.pakistani.org/pakistan/constitu.../part7.ch4.html

3) CJ has now been referred to the SJC by Musharraf, as per Constitution - Question for you - How can the CJ be a member of the SJC for his own trial? Answer is at end

Article 180.
Acting Chief Justice.
At any time when-
(a) the office of Chief Justice of Pakistan is vacant; or
(b) the Chief Justice of Pakistan is absent or is unable to perform the functions of his office due to any other cause,
the President shall appoint [163] [the most senior of the other Judges of the Supreme Court] to act as Chief Justice of Pakistan.
181. Acting Judges.
(1) At any time when-
(a) the office of a Judge of the Supreme Court is vacant; or

(b) a Judge of the Supreme Court is absent or is unable to perform the functions of his office due to any other cause,
the President may, in the manner provided in clause (1) of Article 177, appoint a Judge of a High Court who is qualified for appointment as a Judge of the Supreme Court to act temporarily as a Judge of the Supreme Court.

http://www.pakistani.org/pakistan/constitu.../part7.ch2.html

Answer - The CJ cannot be a member of the SJC for his own trial, so he cannot perform the duties of his office, since Article 209 [2] (see above), states that the SJC is composed of the CJ and other judges. How can CJ be a member of the jury for his own trial? He can't therefore he cannot perform the duties of his office, therefore the President shall appoint the most senior of the other Judges of the Supreme Court to act as Chief Justice of Pakistan, as per Article 180 (see above) - in other words, a new CJ is appointed, until the old CJ can resume his role on the SJC panel, which won't be possible till after his trial, assuming he is found not guilty.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

I'll post what I posted on pdf here..it might have more effect since noone seemed capable of understanding english on there - .

Hee hee...you noticed that too eh... Hello again roadrunner.

I agree with you on this. My opinion, since day one of this issue, has been that the media blew the whole issue out of proportion and the anti Musharraf forces continued feeding into the frenzy. Musharraf and his staff kept issuing statements explaining their position, yet none of the armchair experts on TV or in the newspapers ever addressed his arguments by actually looking at the law. Its just illustrates the asinine attitudes that permeate our media at this stage of infancy.

You had the same sort of hair tearing commentary and "expert analysis" going on during the Lal Masjid operation as well, where the same arm chair liberals, who were screaming for the blood of the Mullahs for the past six months, suddenly decided that criminal, violent activity had to be given a "voice" and ideologies representative of anarchy had to be respected and heard at the same level as the vioces for the rule of law and order. Talk about our media trying to outdo the West in seeming "fair and balanced".

 

[bhangra12345]

Nope, the President doesn't need any evidence to call an SJC trial for the CJ. Article 209 is clear that the President only needs to be of the opinion that the CJ is guilty to put him on trial..no evidence is required.
just read the bits highlighted.


Article 209
(5) If, on information [231A] [from any source, the Council or] the President is of the opinion that a Judge of the Supreme Court or of a High Court, (a) may be incapable of properly performing the duties of his office by reason of physical or mental incapacity; or
(b) may have been guilty of misconduct,
the President shall direct the Council to [231B] [, or the Council may, on its own motion,] inquire into the matter.

(6) If, after inquiring into the matter, the Council reports to the President that it is of the opinion,
(a) that the Judge is incapable of performing the duties of his office or has been guilty of misconduct, and
(b) that he should be removed from office,
the President may remove the Judge from office.

http://www.pakistani.org/pakistan/constitution/part7.ch4.html

Even point (6) Musharraff has followed to the letter, as he proved today.

Roadrunner,

You are completely missing the point here. The CJ was also made "inactive"- i.e. he was forced not to preside over any other case. Definitely this was not in the constitution. Nobody here is saying that it was a issue where who was the ACJ?

You have to also understand that a CJ represents (for a normal civic society), the ultimate arbiter of justice. Any mark on him will represent that not only he personally will be maligned but a significant amount of the dirt will be on the whole of judiciary itself. Every one in the civic society will be asking, if the judiciary is also corrupt, where should they go? The only option will be complete lawlessness. So even before even a small amount of dirt is thrown on him, a President (which is another constitutional body), should satisfy himself that the dirt being thrown is ESSENTIAL and definitely true. When two constitutional bodies fight,

"Discretion is the better part of valour"

This simple point was missed by his highness Musharraf.

 

[roadrunner]

Hee hee...you noticed that too eh... Hello again roadrunner.

I agree with you on this. My opinion, since day one of this issue, has been that the media blew the whole issue out of proportion and the anti Musharraf forces continued feeding into the frenzy. Musharraf and his staff kept issuing statements explaining their position, yet none of the armchair experts on TV or in the newspapers ever addressed his arguments by actually looking at the law. Its just illustrates the asinine attitudes that permeate our media at this stage of infancy.

You had the same sort of hair tearing commentary and "expert analysis" going on during the Lal Masjid operation as well, where the same arm chair liberals, who were screaming for the blood of the Mullahs for the past six months, suddenly decided that criminal, violent activity had to be given a "voice" and ideologies representative of anarchy had to be respected and heard at the same level as the vioces for the rule of law and order. Talk about our media trying to outdo the West in seeming "fair and balanced".

Hello AgnosticMuslim. It's an evolving media and judiciary as you allude to. It'll take time. But there are people, educated people, who are abusing their positions at the top, and that's why the media comes out with this bs. They're either bought off by the opposition parties or by some foriegn influnce, because all they spout is anti Musharraff propaganda. Everything is directed against him, so much so it becomes obvious they have a bias against him. You do get papers in Western countries criticizing presidents and so on, but generally they have valid claims of foul play. Even me, sitting here at home without any political motive, can prove that it is constitutionally legal for Musharraf to call an SJC to try the CJ based on his opinion without the slightest of evidence. If I can do this from here, just imagine the corruption or the stupidity or greed or whatever it is that permeates the judiciary in Pakistan. Under no circumstances would you have seen such an organzied mafia type action by an institution in the West, which is what separates the men from the boys. It was a shameless shambolic show from so called educated people (who obviously are relatively uneducated)..the only person that comes out of this with his head held high here is Musharaff who has graciously accepted the outcome of the SJC even though it ruled against him. The media, the lawyers are the people that will bring Pakistan down. I never noticed the law institution before of Pakistan, but they are a shambles..it's a conclusion based on the organized crime they committed and the fact they did not even know their own Constitution. The media was even in cahoots with them. No wonder the law courts were coming out with stupid *** decisions like the capital punishment for the guy who shot someone in self defence. As far as I'm concerned the only respectable institution in Pakistan now is the government. Let's hope the people of Pakistan are smart enough to see it by the election.

 

[roadrunner]

Roadrunner,

You are completely missing the point here. The CJ was also made "inactive"- i.e. he was forced not to preside over any other case. Definitely this was not in the constitution. Nobody here is saying that it was a issue where who was the ACJ?

You have to also understand that a CJ represents (for a normal civic society), the ultimate arbiter of justice. Any mark on him will represent that not only he personally will be maligned but a significant amount of the dirt will be on the whole of judiciary itself. Every one in the civic society will be asking, if the judiciary is also corrupt, where should they go? The only option will be complete lawlessness. So even before even a small amount of dirt is thrown on him, a President (which is another constitutional body), should satisfy himself that the dirt being thrown is ESSENTIAL and definitely true. When two constitutional bodies fight,

"Discretion is the better part of valour"

This simple point was missed by his highness Musharraf.

Dude you remind me of some of the dumbasses of pdf that could never get my point in a million years. I'm not saying anything about civic law or whatever else it is you're talking about, I'm simply talking about Constitutional law, for which you need basic English comprehension skills to understand. I gave you the article from the Constitution that states in very clear language that Musharraf only needs to be of the opinion the CJ is corrupt to call an SJC, he does not need any solid evidence. If he is innocent or there's not enough proof, the SJC will clear him, as they have done, and the stain or whatever you're talking about will be removed.

The inactive bit I give up on with people like you. You will never understand it, you're not intelligent enough. If you read the last post on the previous page, you will find the answer there. It was an obligation for Musharraff to appoint a new CJ and make this one inactive while the SJC carried out the trial, because the CJ needs to be on the bench for the trial. You tell me, how can the CJ be one of the judges for his own SJC trial? Would this be a fair trial? 2 questions, 2 answers, 2 words, if you please.

 

[Awesome]

RR, please no personal comments against another member.

Making him inactive was an issue? How else were you going to appoint a bench for the full court? CJ decides his own list of judges?

 

[KashifAsrar]

In big blow to Mush, top judge reinstated



Ishtiaq Ali Mehkri



Islamabad: In a historic judgment on Friday, Pakistan’s Supreme Court reinstated the country’s suspended chief justice, Iftikhar Muhammad Chaudhry, and quashed misconduct charges filed against him by President Pervez Musharraf with a 10-3 decision. In a major blow for the military ruler, the 13-member full bench was unanimous in reinstating Chaudhry. It termed the presidential decree passed against Chaudhry on March 9 as unconstitutional.
The bench, headed by Justice Khalilur-Rehman Ramday, said the appointment of acting chief justice Javed Iqbal was ‘‘illegal and unconstitutional’’.
The much-awaited verdict sparked celebrations by lawyers who spent the day waiting outside the court for the ruling on Chaudhry, who has become an icon of opposition to Musharraf. The Musharraf regime has been plagued by popular unrest and terror attacks across the country in the past few months.
The writer is a Pakistan-based senior journalist



Musharraf caught in a pincer




Islamabad: Pakistani president Pervez Musharraf, battling a wave of Islamist violence, suffered another blow Friday when the supreme court gave a victory to his political nemesis, the country’s top judge.
Musharraf ousted independent-minded chief justice Iftikhar Mohammad Chaudhary in March, but the court reinstated him and quashed corruption charges filed by the president in what critics say was a bid to retain his grip on power. The court ruling hit Musharraf during the worst crisis of his eight-year rule, amid a wave of deadly violence sparked by the bloody storming by government forces last week of the pro-Taliban Lal Masjid in Islamabad.
The death toll from the Islamist carnage passed 200 in less than a week Friday, after another suicide attack killed four people in the tribal area of North Waziristan, where militants last Sunday tore up a shaky ceasefire pact.
Musharraf has come under intense pressure from the United States, one of Islamabad’s key allies since the events of 9/11, to crack down on Al Qaida and Taliban fighters in the troubled tribal areas bordering Afghanistan.
The supreme court’s verdict was set to embolden activists who have staged mass rallies around the country in support of Chaudhary since his suspension, campaigning for democracy and judicial independence. PM Shaukat Aziz said the government had accepted the supreme court’s decision, which sparked massive celebrations by lawyers, but added it was “not the time to claim victory or defeat”.
Amid the spate of suicide bombings in Pakistan, officials and an opposition leader have reportedly alleged that most of these attacks were carried out by “Afghan” bombers trained by Indian intelligence agencies, a charge rejected as “baseless” and “mischievous” by the Indian mission here.
Pakistani intelligence agencies duringa meeting chaired by interior minister Aftab Ahmed Khan Sherpao on Wednesday claimed that 25 “Afghan terrorists” had links with RAW agents in Indian consulates at Jalalabad and Kandahar, Daily Times reported quoting officials. AGENCIES

 

[Munir]

Well, Musharraf should drop the military title and try to change uneducated and religeous hatred in Pakistan. Whether the Judge was right or wrong... I don not care. I am hardly impressed by the lawyers or judges in Pakistan. But that is purely my impression and surely not objective comment...

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Does anyone know what on earth all this "angel" stuff is about? My initial thought was that these "angels" were well wishers of the CJ or confidential sources or something for Ansar Abbasi (the author of the piece). But he also talks about "infallible beings" and "heavenly abodes" and other stuff. AA's articles tend to be very anti Musharraf; is this an attempt to "sell" a "pure" image of the CJ to the masses so as to make Musharraf look even worse?

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

By Ansar Abbasi

ISLAMABAD: The Chief Justice of Pakistan, Justice Iftikhar Muhammad Chaudhry, has conveyed to angels who became friendly with him after March 9 his extreme happiness over his historic restoration to office and pledged that he will not disappoint the people of Pakistan.

“I am really thankful to Almighty Allah for vindicating me and my honour and reputation,” an angel quoted the chief justice as saying, adding that as the restored chief justice of Pakistan, he holds no grievance against anybody. The CJ’s official residence was thronged by media persons, lawyers and others on Friday but Justice Iftikhar did not give any comment to journalists and remained composed despite their repeated requests to offer, at least, a few remarks.

However, like the recent past, he opened up his heart only before some of the angels, who incidentally are known to this correspondent too. Luckily, these angels share with The News what is otherwise a secret between them and the chief justice.

Justice Iftikhar might be upset with this sharing of secrets – that too with a journalist – but the angels’ code of ethics is different from that of human beings. However, one thing is clear that they don’t tell a lie and also do not distort facts.

According to the angel, he never saw the chief justice as happy as he was on Friday. The chief justice, the angel said, was thankful to the media, the lawyers and the whole nation who had wholeheartedly supported him during the most testing times of his life.

“I can never forget the love shown to me by the people of this country,” the chief justice was quoted as saying by the angel, who in a lighter vein said that by the way Justice Iftikhar also uttered some good words about this correspondent.

When the chief justice heard the Supreme Court’s short order, he told the angel, sitting next to him, though not invisible: “Don’t you remember that from the day one, I have been telling you that my hands are clean; I am innocent; and I did not do anything wrong.”

Regarding the independence of judiciary, the chief justice was quoted as saying that he had always been pledging and emphasising it for the future of Pakistan. The angel said that the chief justice, while referring to the historic decision handed down by the 13-member full court, said with great pride, “Who says we don’t have an independent judiciary?”

Justice Iftikhar promised that he would not compromise on the question of the independence of judiciary.

The angel was requested to seek an on-the-record interview of the chief justice with The News but he came up with a polite “no”, arguing that Justice Iftikhar was of the view that being a judge it would not be appropriate for him to give interviews. “I was confined before and for being a judge, I will remain so,” the chief justice told the angel, who though said Justice Iftikhar wanted to share with the whole world his moments of pleasure but restricted himself for the sake of the decorum of his office.

The chief justice asked the angel who visited The News office after meeting Justice Iftikhar as to how were the people reacting to the court’s decision. “In an exceptional way,” he was told. The angel told the chief justice that the people were distributing sweets, exchanging best wishes and foreseeing a great future for Pakistan.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

[roadrunner]

Does anyone know what on earth all this "angel" stuff is about? My initial thought was that these "angels" were well wishers of the CJ or confidential sources or something for Ansar Abbasi (the author of the piece). But he also talks about "infallible beings" and "heavenly abodes" and other stuff. AA's articles tend to be very anti Musharraf; is this an attempt to "sell" a "pure" image of the CJ to the masses so as to make Musharraf look even worse?

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

By Ansar Abbasi

ISLAMABAD: The Chief Justice of Pakistan, Justice Iftikhar Muhammad Chaudhry, has conveyed to angels who became friendly with him after March 9 his extreme happiness over his historic restoration to office and pledged that he will not disappoint the people of Pakistan.

“I am really thankful to Almighty Allah for vindicating me and my honour and reputation,” an angel quoted the chief justice as saying, adding that as the restored chief justice of Pakistan, he holds no grievance against anybody. The CJ’s official residence was thronged by media persons, lawyers and others on Friday but Justice Iftikhar did not give any comment to journalists and remained composed despite their repeated requests to offer, at least, a few remarks.

However, like the recent past, he opened up his heart only before some of the angels, who incidentally are known to this correspondent too. Luckily, these angels share with The News what is otherwise a secret between them and the chief justice.

Justice Iftikhar might be upset with this sharing of secrets – that too with a journalist – but the angels’ code of ethics is different from that of human beings. However, one thing is clear that they don’t tell a lie and also do not distort facts.

According to the angel, he never saw the chief justice as happy as he was on Friday. The chief justice, the angel said, was thankful to the media, the lawyers and the whole nation who had wholeheartedly supported him during the most testing times of his life.

“I can never forget the love shown to me by the people of this country,” the chief justice was quoted as saying by the angel, who in a lighter vein said that by the way Justice Iftikhar also uttered some good words about this correspondent.

When the chief justice heard the Supreme Court’s short order, he told the angel, sitting next to him, though not invisible: “Don’t you remember that from the day one, I have been telling you that my hands are clean; I am innocent; and I did not do anything wrong.”

Regarding the independence of judiciary, the chief justice was quoted as saying that he had always been pledging and emphasising it for the future of Pakistan. The angel said that the chief justice, while referring to the historic decision handed down by the 13-member full court, said with great pride, “Who says we don’t have an independent judiciary?”

Justice Iftikhar promised that he would not compromise on the question of the independence of judiciary.

The angel was requested to seek an on-the-record interview of the chief justice with The News but he came up with a polite “no”, arguing that Justice Iftikhar was of the view that being a judge it would not be appropriate for him to give interviews. “I was confined before and for being a judge, I will remain so,” the chief justice told the angel, who though said Justice Iftikhar wanted to share with the whole world his moments of pleasure but restricted himself for the sake of the decorum of his office.

The chief justice asked the angel who visited The News office after meeting Justice Iftikhar as to how were the people reacting to the court’s decision. “In an exceptional way,” he was told. The angel told the chief justice that the people were distributing sweets, exchanging best wishes and foreseeing a great future for Pakistan.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dude, that can't be real, where's the link?

 

[KashifAsrar]

Musharraf must quit, says Chaudhry's counsel
Islamabad, July. 22 (PTI): Pakistan President Pervez Musharraf should step down following the Supreme Court ruling reinstating suspended Chief Justice Iftikhar M Chaudhry as it is "the honourable option" left for the General, according to the chief counsel of the top judge.

"It (Supreme Court's decision) should have shattered his government and his regime, having taken the full responsibility for the action against the Chief Justice... The honourable option left for him (President Musharraf) is to resign," Chaudhry's chief counsel Aitzaz Ahsan told NDTV.

Ahsan, however, said that despite the Supreme Court's unambiguous rejoinder, he does not expect Musharraf, who had suspended Chaudhry on March 9, to resign from the President's post.

"...But of course, I don't expect him (Musharraf) to do that (resign). I don't think he will even apologise for creating such a chaos in the country for four months all be himself."

Ahsan said the four months of protest have exuded "amazing confidence" in the Bar Association and lawyers now think that they are the watchdogs of the Constitution and judiciary.

"The Bar Association would be very aggressive if Musharraf gets re-elected with or without uniform in November and would oppose it in every possible way," Ahsan said.

Musharraf plans to seek re-election in uniform from present assemblies later this year while general elections in Pakistan are due early next year.

Chaudhry's suspension by Musharraf had sparked protests by lawyers and Opposition parties.

http://www.hindu.com/thehindu/holnus/001200707221512.htm