Pakistan's tool of war: Al-Khalid Main Battle Tank – the armoured fist

[monitor]

We got specs n data to prove that!




AK already has Varta I..

Oh yes

 

[Sulman Badshah]

AL Khalid need to have APS

AK is using ukranian Varta

 

[Dazzler]

What piece of trash I just read, man! What's with these amateur writers these days!!

He even labeled t-80ud pics as Al Khalid?

 

[IceCold]

We had the opportunity to test Al Khalids in the FATA theatre against WOT but I wonder what kept us from doing so? There was a documentary during the early years of WOT made by Aj-Jeerza and I remember how a T-59 commander rushed back from his position as his crap tank could not take it and Cobras were sent to take out before the tanks could move in.

 

[rockstar08]

We got specs n data to prove that!

can you post it here ?

 

[Zarvan]

If you cant respond politely better shut up and dont quote me again. And that is not what i referred to but a video from Al-jeerza which actually showed the whole thing.

This is the whole video i was referring to

Pakistan's War - Al Jazeera English

Yes first it was Al Zarrrar secondly it faced several attacks still whole crew survived that was biggest morale booster. From IED to RPG to suicide bombers and Grenades still entire crew of the Tank survived unharmed that is good sign.
.

 

[Arsalan]

you sure about that ? i think you are either over exaggerating AK or underestimating the T-90

Neither,, @DESERT FIGHTER is spot on with his remarks and we have gone over this comparison/discussion a dozen time. I don't think it is a good idea to start it all over again.


AND ABOUT THAT STUPID FIGHT YOU TWO ARE HAVING,,, @DESERT FIGHTER and @IceCold ,,,,, Show some sense and respect, you are both senior members,, what shameful example are your trying to set? Plus on this topic, @IceCold have a point, WE MUST have tried and tested the AKs in war on terror. Not only the old tanks cost us lives, the AK participation would have sent out a loud and clear message about the maturity of the tank and would have helped improve its ratings in export market. Pakistan do need to focus on weapons exports to generate funds and gain more experience and things like this go a long way in achieving all that.

The talk about un-tank-able terrain or the non tank friendly terrain is wrong, AK is a light tank too.

The operational cost issue is wrong as well, The older obsolete tanks wont be cheap to maintain and operate either, i know they are now.

The only problem that comes to mind is that the number of AK is limited as we have not produced any for years now due to funds and WRONG PRIORITIES of our beloved governments and even army administration/top brass. lets face it,, no shame it admitting the little mistakes we make and the weaknesses.

Personally, i feel we missed a trick here. SHOULD have sent a few AK and given them coverage. The Sad sad incident of this war would have brought at least some small good for us. WE NEED TO FOCUS ON EXPORTS as it seem only that would generate funds to make more tanks for our self. There have been no real progress lately, HIT is sitting almost ideal and useless because of this. NEED FUNDS TO GET THINGS ROLLING!

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

Neither,, @DESERT FIGHTER is spot on with his remarks and we have gone over this comparison/discussion a dozen time. I don't think it is a good idea to start it all over again.


AND ABOUT THAT STUPID FIGHT YOU TWO ARE HAVING,,, @DESERT FIGHTER and @IceCold ,,,,, Show some sense and respect, you are both senior members,, what shameful example are your trying to set? Plus on this topic, @IceCold have a point, WE MUST have tried and tested the AKs in war on terror. Not only the old tanks cost us lives, the AK participation would have sent out a loud and clear message about the maturity of the tank and would have helped improve its ratings in export market. Pakistan do need to focus on weapons exports to generate funds and gain more experience and things like this go a long way in achieving all that.

The talk about un-tank-able terrain or the non tank friendly terrain is wrong, AK is a light tank too.

The operational cost issue is wrong as well, The older obsolete tanks wont be cheap to maintain and operate either, i know they are now.

The only problem that comes to mind is that the number of AK is limited as we have not produced any for years now due to funds and WRONG PRIORITIES of our beloved governments and even army administration/top brass. lets face it,, no shame it admitting the little mistakes we make and the weaknesses.

Personally, i feel we missed a trick here. SHOULD have sent a few AK and given them coverage. The Sad sad incident of this war would have brought at least some small good for us. WE NEED TO FOCUS ON EXPORTS as it seem only that would generate funds to make more tanks for our self. There have been no real progress lately, HIT is sitting almost ideal and useless because of this. NEED FUNDS TO GET THINGS ROLLING!

They have been tested against 125 mm rounds and missiles .. What good would we achieve by sending 48 ton tanks against terrorists armed with RPGs n mortars?

The limited numbers (600) is an issue ..

But cheap and lighter type 59s (36 tons) aren't going to cost us much.. Nor is maintance an issue ... Also are more useful than medium tanks like AK..in terrain like FATA.. They are not just being used in urban combat but also "fortify" strategic positions... So yes operating them is also "cheaper"... ( Turkey is using M-60s etc on its borders digging PKK .. instead of sending Leopards or "Sabras".. )


Also the tanks operating in FATA are working under air cover .. They come in to "sweep" places after the gunships n jets have already done their job...


AZs also have been used in combat...

 

[CHI RULES]

They have been tested against 125 mm rounds and missiles .. What good would we achieve by sending 48 ton tanks against terrorists armed with RPGs n mortars?

The limited numbers (600) is an issue ..

But cheap and lighter type 59s (36 tons) aren't going to cost us much.. Nor is maintance an issue ... Also are more useful than medium tanks like AK..in terrain like FATA.. They are not just being used in urban combat but also "fortify" strategic positions... So yes operating them is also "cheaper"... ( Turkey is using M-60s etc on its borders digging PKK .. instead of sending Leopards or "Sabras".. )


Also the tanks operating in FATA are working under air cover .. They come in to "sweep" places after the gunships n jets have already done their job...


AZs also have been used in combat...

Nice reply and perhaps people who have visited areas near Afghan border/KP know very well that there are limited places where tanks may move freely even lighter tanks face challenge their at 48Ton+ AK is truely not suitable for mountainous train. People may know that sometimes use of excessive force can backfire as done with Germans during WW2 in Russia. Wars can be won by using efficient force not excessive one. As far as practical testing is concerned the live fire is used to test materials used on MBTs.

However I hope other members also shall not appreciate vulgar comments. We are here to learn from each other, I can bet that even Military people can't explain full characteristics of MBT materials until and unless some project director involved in their mfg process. Please always maintain ur dignity and respect others.

 

[Dazzler]

Calm down folks and keep it civil. A good discussion is all that is needed.

Thanks

 

[Signalian]

We had the opportunity to test Al Khalids in the FATA theatre against WOT but I wonder what kept us from doing so? There was a documentary during the early years of WOT made by Aj-Jeerza and I remember how a T-59 commander rushed back from his position as his crap tank could not take it and Cobras were sent to take out before the tanks could move in.

The first reason that AK is not used FATA is because, AK is meant to counter Indian armour threat in the east, thats its main job and purpose. Its deployed in sindh region to fight T-72 and T-90 in the desert, a job which T-59 II is not exactly supposed to do. Its not a good strategy to send AK to fight terrorists when there is no credible tank type present on eastern border to deter Indian armoured forces.

The second reason is that usually infantry formations (e.g 17 Infantry Division) are sent to FATA, there is atleast one armoured regiment attached with every infantry division of PA. This regiment which supports an infantry formation is usually formed up of T-59 and T-69 tanks.
Armour divisions and independent armour brigades have elite tanks like T-80/Al Khalid to not only counter Indian tanks but also make a thrust into its territory and these formations are not sent to FATA.

The third reason is that 80-90% armoured regiments in PA have used T-59 II and have had good practice in driving and operating these tanks for a long time. So there is a large pool of armoured regiments which can be rotated easily and sent to FATA sector again and again.
Only a few regiments have operated AK, thats a very small pool of regiments to be rotated on regular basis for duty in FATA.

The fourth reason is to use away the storage of 105mm shells used by T-59 and T-69 rusting in different ammunitions depots around the country. Not only use up this storage but make way for new 125mm shells in these storage facilities.

The last reason is that FC has been seen using T-59. In any theatre of war, considering the region, the paramilitary forces move in first and then the regular Army. In FATA, its the FC which moves in to make first contact. Recently, FC has been supplied with some heavy weapons also including artillery and tanks.

 

[Dazzler]

I have had a sizeable debate on another thread that t-90 lacks several features when compared to alkhalid. Areas include FCS and network centric systems at least.

 

[Jat Boy]

T90 built 800 under license 900 more to follow

MK1 (125 )arjuns MK2 ordered 125

upgraqded T72 (950 tanks upgradsed so far)


AL KHLAID WILL NEED SOME HELP LIKE T99 in large nos in future

 

[Khafee]

I have had a sizeable debate on another thread that t-90 lacks several features when compared to alkhalid. Areas include FCS and network centric systems at least.

Let's not forget the most important quality, required for it to function effectively - reliability.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

T90 built 800 under license 900 more to follow

MK1 (125 )arjuns MK2 ordered 125

upgraqded T72 (950 tanks upgradsed so far)


AL KHLAID WILL NEED SOME HELP LIKE T99 in large nos in future

Till a few weeks the number if T-90s was stuck at 500.. Due to Russia not sending the key parts for assembly to india.

Spec wise AK trumps t-90... And so does numerically -600 are in service.

Arjun isn't even worth it -- sorry to say..

T-72s also face issues like night blindness (although a fee hundred were upgraded).. But bursting barrels n obsolete ammo remains an issue.

..

Meanwhile ;

600 AK-I's

325 T-89UDs (upgraded)

500+ AZs

Upgraded T85II

Etc are serving PA.


Meanwhile

AKII is on the horizon.

A new tank either Oplot M,T-99A2 will be introduced.

All are complemented with high penetration value ammo-- be it Tungsten or DU etc.or missiles like Invar or Kombat.