Pakistan’s steadily diminishing equity with the US may have hit rock bottom

[Path-Finder]

It is also very notable how the armed forces and Imran Khan are in tandem trying to make desperate efforts to have cordial relations with the US despite the latter's cold shouldering.

IMO this is a good tact. I say this because the side that is showing some effort of keeping things flat is the side that has the optics of trying to be cordial and the other side being Hostile. So it can be viewed as a good strategy. Bottom line is they will have to come to a table and sit opposite Pakistan and at that conjecture of time it will be literally drinking their own bath water.

 

[Dalit]

IMO this is a good tact. I say this because the side that is showing some effort of keeping things flat is the side that has the optics of trying to be cordial and the other side being Hostile. So it can be viewed as a good strategy. Bottom line is they will have to come to a table and sit opposite Pakistan and at that conjecture of time it will be literally drinking their own bath water.

If that really is the intent there is indeed no harm.

I just watched Moeed Pirzada's clip and that has some accurate analysis. I think the Democrats are trying to rebrand Modi as a force for good after the nosedive he took during all the controversies. The Americans are hellbent in their obsession to weaken China. The Americans will never confront China. They will use Indian shoulders to confront China. China is a beat and the Americans realise its might. Weakening China won't be an easy task. The Americans are going to beef up military support for the Indians. The Indians should get ready to become a sacrificial goat.

 

[CrazyZ]

If that really is the intent there is indeed no harm.

I just watched Moeed Pirzada's clip and that has some accurate analysis. I think the Democrats are trying to rebrand Modi as a force for good after the nosedive he took during all the controversies. The Americans are hellbent in their obsession to weaken China. The Americans will never confront China. They will use Indian shoulders to confront China.

The Americans will confront China if necessary. Its the Indians that will most likely back off and seek a diplomatic solution. IMO, the Indians are important to the Japanese and the USN as a sink for Chinese missiles and munitions on an adjacent front so they don't have to take the full force (the quad is a Japanese concept).

 

[Path-Finder]

If that really is the intent there is indeed no harm.

I just watched Moeed Pirzada's clip and that has some accurate analysis. I think the Democrats are trying to rebrand Modi as a force for good after the nosedive he took during all the controversies. The Americans are hellbent in their obsession to weaken China. The Americans will never confront China. They will use Indian shoulders to confront China. China is a beat and the Americans realise its might. Weakening China won't be an easy task. The Americans are going to beef up military support for the Indians. The Indians should get ready to become a sacrificial goat.

we are in China camp both feet in. not the india strategy of trying to ride on two boats and presenting itself as some relic of harmony in international politics and foreign policy. it worked briefly but not long term and the Russian visit showed that. you have to choose sides and neutrality at some point becomes arbitrary and it has in the case of india.

 

[Dalit]

The Americans will confront China if necessary. Its the Indians that will most likely back off and seek a diplomatic solution. IMO, the Indians are important to the Japanese and the USN as a sink for Chinese missiles and munitions on an adjacent front so they don't have to take the full force (the quad is a Japanese concept).

The quad has an interesting history as Moeed Pirzada was explaining. It was setup during tsunami to efficiently help the victims. It got hijacked as a military alliance by the Americans (Dick Cheney) to further anti-China agenda.

 

[Chhatrapati]

Better to not be strategically important to the USA from a military perspective. Many countries in East Asia have only prospered when the USA is strategically/militarily focused else where. The meek inherit the earth.

In fact, it's quite the opposite, countries like South Korea and Japan used the US effectively to prop up their economy. It was by providing favourable trade deals with these countries, they pulled themselves out of poverty. Even in PDF, I have read stories of South Koreans, back in the day, visiting Pakistan to learn.

Be strategically important and effectively use the US to propel yourself. Get US investments, trade deals etc. and the US is not alone, it comes with Europe, Australia and the East Asian allies.

There is such a thing as political myopia. United States is predominatl;y a country made of European migrants that looks at Europe as the motherlode of their civilization. Given the huge influence of Jews the Near East can also be included in the US horizon. Thus this region occupies America's primary interest.

Well, the US go where the money is.

Now with rise of China the Eastern Asian regiion also becomes important. However decade after decade should teach US that geography occupied by Pakistan - that is the Indus Basin is strategic fulcrum of Asia, Eurasia and Middle East.

Thus the cycles you see. But each time USA came running back. So it will be again. With rise of China, Russian influence in Central Asia, Iran, straits of Hormuz and Arabian peninsula they can't ignore Pakistan for long.

From a historic perspective, you are right. But this is not 10th century when the most important trade route was the Silk Road when Persia-Central Asia-Middle East held the key. This is the age of Sea trade, it will be cheaper to send a container full of clothes from Gwadar to Karachi by sea than by road. I'm not saying Pakistan is irrelevant or anything, for the US, this whole region, unless there is a conflict, is unimportant. Neither of us is rich enough to be in a trade block that could challenge the US or have some hidden mineral that the US desperately wants like Oil in the past decade.

 

[hussain0216]

What's the "surprise" here????

Few reasons for the US being extremely upset with Pak:

• Defeating the USA in Afganistan with the help of the USA
• Letting China bypass all the bottlenecks (Malacca straits, Suez Canal etc.) in SLOCs
• Inviting Russia to acquire a permanent footprint in the Asian Ocean
• Leaving the US policymakers with India being their principal spearhead - it's the biggest curse for the Pentagon
• Being the catalyst for the downfall of the US hegemony
• Etc.

Pretty much, they know we have screwed them, however all we were doing is protecting our own interests

 

[Indus Pakistan]

Be strategically important and effectively use the US to propel yourself. Get US investments, trade deals etc.

Agreed. Pakistani's cry about US infamy. The fact is it is for each country to use the circumstances and develop. Take South Korea, Taiwan, Singapore and now Vietnam. All used USA to rise up. Some of them even had US military bases. For exampole South Korea had and has 100,000s of US soldiers.

Pakistan had that opportunity in 1960s. And sure under Ayub Khan Pakistan leveraged America to build a army, airforce, navy, capital city Islamabad, two of the large dams, roads, universties with $ billions of aid every year. But all that was blown away.

 

[khansaheeb]

please refrain from painting 1.5 billion souls as gobrandus..it is racist

What is a gobrandus? Never heard of this before, quite puzzling.

 

[Chhatrapati]

Pakistan had that opportunity in 1960s. And sure under Ayub Khan Pakistan leveraged America to build a army, airforce, navy, capital city Islamabad, two of the large dams, roads, universties with $ billions of aid every year. But all that was blown away.

60's to 70's were probably the most colourful times.

 

[TNT]

For the first time in over two decades, Pakistan is not a foreign-policy priority for a new US administration,”

This is really a blessing. We remember the days when Pakistan was CIA playground. If we really are no more useful to them then it's very good for us and our future.

 

[Death Professor]

well US can sod off then. They were barely offering peanuts and were complaining about do more all the time, so good riddance.

Russia's Putin offers 'blank cheque' to Pakistan | The Express Tribune

When Russian FM Sergey Lavrov visited Islamabad last week after a gap of nine years, he had delivered an important message to its leadership

tribune.com.pk

When Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov visited Islamabad last week after a gap of nine years, he had delivered an "important" message to the Pakistani leadership. The message was from President Vladimir Putin.

"I came with a message from my president that tell Pakistan we are open for any cooperation, whatever Pakistan needs Russia is ready for it," Lavrov was quoted by a senior Pakistani official, who attended the closed door meeting between the Russian foreign minister and Pakistani authorities, as saying.

"In other words, the Russian president offered us a blank cheque," said the official, who requested not to be named because of the sensitivity of the issue.

The official revealed that Putin had conveyed to Pakistan through his top diplomat that Moscow would help Islamabad in any manner. "If you're interested in gas pipelines, corridors, defence or any other cooperation, Russia stands ready for it," the official quoted FM Lavrov as saying when asked what he meant by "blank cheque".


Pakistan and Russia are already working on the North-South gas pipeline project. The two sides had entered into the agreement in 2015 to lay a pipeline from Karachi to Lahore. The project is estimated to cost $2 billion.

The work on the pipeline could not kick off because of possible American sanctions. The two sides, however, recently agreed to approve a new structure that would pave the way for the start of the work.

Russia is also keen to revive the Pakistan Steel Mills, which it originally built. Similarly, Moscow has interest in hydroelectric projects. Overall, Russia is thought to be willing to make $8 billion investment in different areas.

"It is now up to us to follow up this successful visit," the official said.

 

[Silverblaze]

Pakistani elite is very thick skinned when it comes to anglo saxons.

They have been snubbed countless times and still return to them. Why?

Instead of improving own domestic situation, they rely on foreign support.

No one will respect you unless you have strong internal muscles.

No chance. Our establishment will be down on its knees - cap in hand, take thier own lube.

Whilst our elite all have economic and personal interests and investments abroad rather than abroad, we shall never be independent.

Honestly I'm beginning to think economic growth and wealth generation is even more important than anti corruption measures or anything else.

We need a huge middle class and a new wealthy elite before we can break free of the establishment.

These are very very important points. But the problem is new wealthy elites were created during Zia's era. We all know how they turned out. Prime example is NS.

We need an reform inside the establishment which gives us an establishment that looks towards developing internal strength. Military establishment must seriously deliver and improve domestic situation ASAP.

Otherwise, Pakistan will face a hostile india-US-Afghan alliance and a frustrated China.

 

[CrazyZ]

In fact, it's quite the opposite, countries like South Korea and Japan used the US effectively to prop up their economy. It was by providing favourable trade deals with these countries, they pulled themselves out of poverty. Even in PDF, I have read stories of South Koreans, back in the day, visiting Pakistan to learn.

Be strategically important and effectively use the US to propel yourself. Get US investments, trade deals etc. and the US is not alone, it comes with Europe, Australia and the East Asian allies.


Well, the US go where the money is.

From a historic perspective, you are right. But this is not 10th century when the most important trade route was the Silk Road when Persia-Central Asia-Middle East held the key. This is the age of Sea trade, it will be cheaper to send a container full of clothes from Gwadar to Karachi by sea than by road. I'm not saying Pakistan is irrelevant or anything, for the US, this whole region, unless there is a conflict, is unimportant. Neither of us is rich enough to be in a trade block that could challenge the US or have some hidden mineral that the US desperately wants like Oil in the past decade.

Japan prospered when it became pacifist and USA was militarily/strategically focused on Korea and later Vietnam. South Korea prospered when the USA was militarily/strategically focused on Vietnam. It was the fear of being irrelevant to America (as they focused on Vietnam) that prompted S. Korea to commence Its Heavy-Chemical Industry drive. China prospered when the USA was militarily/strategically focused on ME. Latin America and Africa only prospered when USA and USSR's proxy wars were called off and both powers focused else where (USA on the ME, Russia on Eastern Europe and ME).

History is clear on this....in order for a developing country to prosper it requires the major powers to leave it alone and be focused elsewhere.....so their can be peace and its governments can focus on prosperity. Pakistan should recognize this and avoid becoming a frontline state at all costs.

Trade will flow where the economics make sense, Investment will follow. Last time I checked investment funds cared little about a countries standing in Washington.....despite the tensions with China almost all major USA investment banks want to set up shop in China.

 

[Juggernaut_Flat_Plane_V8]

What is a gobrandus? Never heard of this before, quite puzzling.

Gobar + Gaandu ---------------> Gobrandu ...This is offensive,pejorative and when applied on 1.5 Billion souls, it is racist...goes against the basic tenets of Brotherhood of Man