Featured Pakistan's Shahpar II UAV Unveiled

[JamD]

18,000 feet is pretty good, but other drones in same category can cross upto 27,000 feet (Tb-2, in their official website).
Mind you, these drones are more sleek and streamlined than a Cessna, which can't even retract it's landing gear.
And perhaps lighter as well.

I am actually quite fascinated how the TB-2 can climb to 27k feet with a piston engine. It has to be supercharged/turbocharged or something. The TB-2 is a good 200 kg lighter than the Shahpar-II but weight alone cannot allow a piston engine to operate at those altitudes without help.

 

[Goenitz]

I am actually quite fascinated how the TB-2 can climb to 27k feet with a piston engine. It has to be supercharged/turbocharged or something. The TB-2 is a good 200 kg lighter than the Shahpar-II but weight alone cannot allow a piston engine to operate at those altitudes without help.

A fuel mixture containing alcohol and aldehydes can give a alittle kick too. A little more can be compensated by weight reduction.
Any wing configuration advantage at the operated speed? Anyway, supercharger is the most reliable option.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

Hmmm...so cruising at 80 kts for 5 hrs (taking 2 hrs off for takeoff, climb, descent, and landing) you can travel almost 800 km, and half of that is 400 km, which is 100 km more than the MTCR number right?

The line-of-sight data link range is 300 km though. I suppose that's how Shahpar-II conforms to MTCR.

Yep, I don't think many drone vendors build constraints into the airframe design. It seems the majority (including China) use LoS as the limiter.

Funnily enough, you can easily skirt around this limit. You sell the drone on one hand, but through a totally separate and unrelated program, supply a communications satellite. This is literally what China is doing with us. It's up to us to figure out the 'middle layer' (i.e. SATCOM terminals, command-and-control, etc), which we're obviously doing via Space Command et.al.

I am actually quite fascinated how the TB-2 can climb to 27k feet with a piston engine. It has to be supercharged/turbocharged or something. The TB-2 is a good 200 kg lighter than the Shahpar-II but weight alone cannot allow a piston engine to operate at those altitudes without help.

Maybe NESCOM didn't test the Shahpar-2 as strenuously as Baykar did the TB2? It might be a situation where they could post more aggressive specs, but because they didn't carry out enough test and certification work, they can't stand by those figures yet. That or the specs that went to GIDS were out-of-date and they didn't "close the loop" between actual data and marketing info. tbh delays between technical knowledge and marketing info aren't new nor uncommon. I remember at IDEAS 2018 when I asked a Leonardo guy about the Grifo-E, he said the specs listed were under/below actual capability. They rushed marketing in a bid to push it to the PAF for the JF-17.

 

[Moon]

I am actually quite fascinated how the TB-2 can climb to 27k feet with a piston engine. It has to be supercharged/turbocharged or something. The TB-2 is a good 200 kg lighter than the Shahpar-II but weight alone cannot allow a piston engine to operate at those altitudes without help.

It could be a special "world record" variant like the Streak Eagle (extra composites, better engine, removal of sensors, optimized fuel injection etc...) but it's a much more efficient design than the Shahpar 2, then again they serve different purposes.

 

[JamD]

A fuel mixture containing alcohol and aldehydes can give a alittle kick too. A little more can be compensated by weight reduction.
Any wing configuration advantage at the operated speed? Anyway, supercharger is the most reliable option.

Possibly. I suppose Turkish members can shed more light.

Google says the Rotax912 powers the TB-2. This is the same engine that powers the Shahpar-I. If you look at the engine's data sheet:

It only goes up to 7500 m (24,600 ft) and at that altitude you have 20-30 kW. I suppose with very smart aerodynamics and engine enhancements it is possible to cruise at 27k ft.

Maybe NESCOM didn't test the Shahpar-2 as strenuously as Baykar did the TB2? It might be a situation where they could post more aggressive specs, but because they didn't carry out enough test and certification work, they can't stand by those figures yet. That or the specs that went to GIDS were out-of-date and they didn't "close the loop" between actual data and marketing info. tbh delays between technical knowledge and marketing info aren't new nor uncommon. I remember at IDEAS 2018 when I asked a Leonardo guy about the Grifo-E, he said the specs listed were under/below actual capability. They rushed marketing in a bid to push it to the PAF for the JF-17.

It could be a special "world record" variant like the Streak Eagle (extra composites, better engine, removal of sensors, optimized fuel injection etc...) but it's a much more efficient design than the Shahpar 2, then again they serve different purposes.

Because of the unexpectedly low stats for Shahpar-II I am strongly thinking that it has been designed with a bigger engine in mind. Perhaps a Chinese origin turboprop. That would explain everything.

TB-2 was designed for the Rotax-912 so it has been optimized to hell for that. It was doing much better than the Shahpar-II even with its prototypes. Which makes me think that Shahpar-II is destined for a different engine even more.

 

[Moon]

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Because of the unexpectedly low stats for Shahpar-II I am strongly thinking that it has been designed with a bigger engine in mind

Definitely, no way would NESCOM spend money on R&D and bring out product which can be outperformed by competitively priced drones in the market.
They're waiting for a Chinese (or Turkish) powerplant, which is probably under trials.
Though I'm not sure if it'll be a turboprop, just a very efficient piston engine, probably with fewer restrictions on it.

 

[Goenitz]

It could be a special "world record" variant like the Streak Eagle (extra composites, better engine, removal of sensors, optimized fuel injection etc...) but it's a much more efficient design than the Shahpar 2, then again they serve different purposes.

Weight reduction is very important and can provide enhance ceiling and endurance. Due to lack of oxygen engine will be starved and flame out at high alititude, especially spark igintion engines.

Injection timing and tecnique can help a little bit but at the cost of engine. For instance, combustion at compression stroke can provide more power for the same amount of fuel. Nonetheless, it will need propotionate oxygen to the fuel. So dense air is needed, compressed by any form of compressor.

 

[Moon]

Weight reduction is very important and can provide enhance ceiling and endurance. Due to lack of oxygen engine will be starved and flame out at high alititude, especially spark igintion engines.

Injection timing and tecnique can help a little bit but at the cost of engine. For instance, combustion at compression stroke can provide more power for the same amount of fuel. Nonetheless, it will need propotionate oxygen to the fuel. So dense air is needed, compressed by any form of compressor.

Superchargers are likely as well, but they require additional space to be installed, which although isn't that much of a space, I'm not sure is possible to put on a drone which was specifically designed to be built around an engine of certain dimensions.
Secondly if the variant which holds the altitude record is same as one which holds endurance record, then a supercharger is counterproductive.
Lastly a little bit of tweaking the engine or fuel injection to boost its HP makes more sense financially for a private company, rather than waste money tacking on a supercharger, optimising and tuning the supercharged engine and the additional weight and change of CoG, then hoping to set a service ceiling height, that is far above the operational altitude (aka higher than anyone using the drone would fly).
Because I doubt anyone would care if it's 24,000ft or 27,000ft, because in the end you'll fly it at 18,000ft.

 

[Goenitz]

Superchargers are likely as well, but they require additional space to be installed, which although isn't that much of a space, I'm not sure is possible to put on a drone which was specifically designed to be built around an engine of certain dimensions.
Secondly if the variant which holds the altitude record is same as one which holds endurance record, then a supercharger is counterproductive.
Lastly a little bit of tweaking the engine or fuel injection to boost its HP makes more sense financially for a private company, rather than waste money tacking on a supercharger, optimising and tuning the supercharged engine and the additional weight and change of CoG, then hoping to set a service ceiling height, that is far above the operational altitude (aka higher than anyone using the drone would fly).
Because I doubt anyone would care if it's 24,000ft or 27,000ft, because in the end you'll fly it at 18,000ft.

hmhm.. yup..
Just saying optmising will not be that difficult as only at certain altitude and speed, supercharger can be turned on. SC is not that heavy btw. Just a compressor, connected to engine shaft with high gear ratio.

 

[sparten]

I am actually quite fascinated how the TB-2 can climb to 27k feet with a piston engine. It has to be supercharged/turbocharged or something. The TB-2 is a good 200 kg lighter than the Shahpar-II but weight alone cannot allow a piston engine to operate at those altitudes without help.

Guessing it might use a turbocharger, but its a small engine and that would use a lot of fuel very quickly.
Another way might be putting the UAV on a ballistic path.
Unsupercharged pistons start struggling at 15,000 feet. At 20,000 plus its a necessity.
Even with supercharger, sustaining over 25,000 feet is difficult. The B29 was the first that could do it, and it had 4 massive engines and that burnt so hot that they at times melted the wings.

 

[ARMalik]

Well we don’t intend to sell nukes so the analogy fails.
We do actually adhere to it in lots of ways for instance there are export restrictions on certain types of machinery and components to non NPT5 countries. This was one of the claims made against us when the Marshall Islands sued us at the ICJ.

Same reason we adhere to NSG guideline which is to not get sanctioned. MTCR is also another pressure group made up of all big economies just like FATF. Our participation in their regulated framework is voluntary or more like forced to volunteer.

All this talk is "Hypothetical" and has NO LEGAL basis under international or domestic law. So both you gentlemen are just making assumptions without knowing the requirements for MTCR, NSG.
Perhaps you do know that there are audit and reporting requirements for MTCR for example? So are you two saying that Pakistan actually allows "Audits" by MTCR and provides "Reporting" to the as well?? WOW that is a Big Claim without any proof.

 

[dilpakistani]

chor do yar ab agar urr hi gya hai eak ad shapar tu...
year 2000 mai Alkhalid rollout hwa tha ghalti sai HIT sai ...
aaj tak ussi ko rgar rai hain.. don't do it with this stuff...
good achievement but kinda too little too late.... hogai shaheed 15 16 hazar fauji jo honay tha...
kerli khatam war on terror... ab iss parade stuff kai liyai lets keep our sentiments on right scale

 

[Riz]

chor do yar ab agar urr hi gya hai eak ad shapar tu...
year 2000 mai Alkhalid rollout hwa tha ghalti sai HIT sai ...
aaj tak ussi ko rgar rai hain.. don't do it with this stuff...
good achievement but kinda too little too late.... hogai shaheed 15 16 hazar fauji jo honay tha...
kerli khatam war on terror... ab iss parade stuff kai liyai lets keep our sentiments on right scale

Seedha bolo 20 sall lagataar national bird (Mq reaper ) sa mar khany k bad bhi hum na nhi bnaya , ab banaya jub war on terror khatam ho chuki

 

[khanasifm]

What is the engine type used on this new cuav or uav? Is it same as mashaq 200 Hp or 220/240hp super mashaq Engine??

 

[Pandora]

Seedha bolo 20 sall lagataar national bird (Mq reaper ) sa mar khany k bad bhi hum na nhi bnaya , ab banaya jub war on terror khatam ho chuki

Who said war on terror has ended? Abhi tu Taliban aa kar baithay hain next door kuch arsay baad apko pata chalay ga terrorism hota kya hai. Aj kal Noor Wali Mehaood killer of APS childern Badri Brigade ki full protocol mein phir raha hai.