Pakistan's Service Rifle (G-3, Type-56) Replacement Competition 2016.

[Zarvan]

I think Barreta and western rifles are expensive to procure in large quantity

In Europe Italy is most easy option they don't raise any human rights issue and other crap and our Army Chief was also shown this Gun in his recent visit

 

[TaimiKhan]

MPT-76 is far from perfect as a battle rifle given our adverse climatic requirements ranging from sub zero arctic warfare conditions in Siachen to terrifying 50+ degree heat in Thar sector and salt water area of operations in run of kuch and Arabian Sea (Since Marines also use G-3s). At $1200 the price is "ridiculous" considering that we will have to produce almost one million service rifles for strategic requirements including Army, Marines, Rangers, FC, SPD SSU and other LEAs that operate 7.62mm rifles.

This is going to be a very expensive investment for us to replace our old rifles, produce new ones and then train our soldiers to use them to battlefield effectiveness levels. Shooters who have operated a certain rifle frame develop muscle memory which makes their shooting abilities instantaneous. It would take us a long time to achieve that with a new frame with new ergonomics.

Having said that, the MPT-76 is basically a Turkish redesign of hk-417. We simply cannot compromise on the quality of the rifle if we are going to pay top dollar price for each unit when produced at POF under license from the manufacturer. We are much better off taking both MPT-76 and hk-417 off the table. The rifle that suits us the best is FN-SCAR-H which has the same caliber as the G-3 so no replacement of millions of rounds needed, it also comes with a Short Barrel Rifle (SBR) variant, a Personal Defense Weapon (PDW) variant, a 5.56mm variant (for certain applications) as well as a Designated Marksman Rifle (DMR) variant, all will be developed on a SINGLE production line.

If we go for SCAR-L and H under licensed production, we can replace G-3s, SBRs as well as MP-5s and out of date DMRs in service all in one go. As a one off payment its going to cost us a lot to acquire the production license and machinery but in the long term its going to be cheaper for us to produce and train our soldiers on a single identical frame. On a side note, i think there is enough data available on the forum on this subject to put it in an article exploring the ideal replacement options for G-3 and MP-5s.

@Icarus @MilSpec @Hyperion @balixd @TaimiKhan

In my opinion, there is nothing to loose in testing MPT-76. And the conditions you mentioned for us, from what i heard the turks kept those conditions in mind too and designed it accordingly. And just like SCAR, the MPT-76 has different variants too. Assault rifle, carbine for CQB & the sniper version. And i don't think turks will be compromising on the quality.

Below is the link to the video of the weapon being tested.

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

As it is now fully confirmed that Pakistan has decided to replace G3 with a new standard weapon. For this a board of Army officers led by a Major General will evaluate all major Guns used by leading militaries in the world and one of them will be chosen for Pakistan so it's time to discuss potential candidates and their features.
By the way MPT-76 are first to come for evaluation.
@WebMaster @Horus @Oscar @Irfan Baloch @balixd @Icarus @kaonalpha @syedali73 @Sulman Badshah @Wolfhound @nair @SpArK @GURU DUTT @Imran Khan @Arsalan @RescueRanger @Bratva @Slav Defence @ajpirzada @DESERT FIGHTER @

Long live Pak-Turk brotherhood!! Bir millet iki devlet (one nation two states)!!!!
InshaAllah MPT-76 (Milli Piyade Tufek - national infantry weapon) will be the finalist..

 

[Zarvan]

In my opinion, there is nothing to loose in testing MPT-76. And the conditions you mentioned for us, from what i heard the turks kept those conditions in mind too and designed it accordingly. And just like SCAR, the MPT-76 has different variants too. Assault rifle, carbine for CQB & the sniper version. And i don't think turks will be compromising on the quality.

Below is the link to the video of the weapon being tested.

I think MPT-76 is already in Pakistan for testing

 

[Cool_Soldier]

I hope PA will try to procure any best selected Gun and then will produce it with licence production base.

 

[Quwa]

MPT-76 is far from perfect as a battle rifle given our adverse climatic requirements ranging from sub zero arctic warfare conditions in Siachen to terrifying 50+ degree heat in Thar sector and salt water area of operations in run of kuch and Arabian Sea (Since Marines also use G-3s). At $1200 the price is "ridiculous" considering that we will have to produce almost one million service rifles for strategic requirements including Army, Marines, Rangers, FC, SPD SSU and other LEAs that operate 7.62mm rifles.

This is going to be a very expensive investment for us to replace our old rifles, produce new ones and then train our soldiers to use them to battlefield effectiveness levels. Shooters who have operated a certain rifle frame develop muscle memory which makes their shooting abilities instantaneous. It would take us a long time to achieve that with a new frame with new ergonomics.

Having said that, the MPT-76 is basically a Turkish redesign of hk-417. We simply cannot compromise on the quality of the rifle if we are going to pay top dollar price for each unit when produced at POF under license from the manufacturer. We are much better off taking both MPT-76 and hk-417 off the table. The rifle that suits us the best is FN-SCAR-H which has the same caliber as the G-3 so no replacement of millions of rounds needed, it also comes with a Short Barrel Rifle (SBR) variant, a Personal Defense Weapon (PDW) variant, a 5.56mm variant (for certain applications) as well as a Designated Marksman Rifle (DMR) variant, all will be developed on a SINGLE production line.

If we go for SCAR-L and H under licensed production, we can replace G-3s, SBRs as well as MP-5s and out of date DMRs in service all in one go. As a one off payment its going to cost us a lot to acquire the production license and machinery but in the long term its going to be cheaper for us to produce and train our soldiers on a single identical frame. On a side note, i think there is enough data available on the forum on this subject to put it in an article exploring the ideal replacement options for G-3 and MP-5s.

@Icarus @MilSpec @Hyperion @balixd @TaimiKhan

I agree. Yes, the FN SCAR-H is probably on the more expensive side, but the FN SCAR series is making headway now in a number of armed forces. It is after all a standard service arm now in the U.S. (USSOCOM). So in terms of maturity and combat effectiveness, the FN SCAR has the credibility.

I think many have come to the same conclusions in terms of the modularity (SBR, PDW & DMR) as well. In terms of cost, we're willing to let the PAF get away with - at minimum - a $378mn U.S. payment for F-16s (could be higher if FMF doesn't pull through). Moreover, we're spending a lot on COIN, if this draws down to an extent, the Army may benefit from peace dividends as well. Initiating the standard issue rifle program sometime in the next 3-5 years is doable.

It would be ideal if this could be approached from the standpoint of meeting the needs of each of the service arms, paramilitary, law enforcement, and regional commercial prospects. The initial cost of licensing the system and producing it domestically could be distributed widely, and the benefit of an advanced locally sourced solution - at competitive pricing no less - would be shared by all.

 

[That Guy]

I agree. Yes, the FN SCAR-H is probably on the more expensive side, but the FN SCAR series is making headway now in a number of armed forces. It is after all a standard service arm now in the U.S. (USSOCOM). So in terms of maturity and combat effectiveness, the FN SCAR has the credibility.

I think many have come to the same conclusions in terms of the modularity (SBR, PDW & DMR) as well. In terms of cost, we're willing to let the PAF get away with - at minimum - a $378mn U.S. payment for F-16s (could be higher if FMF doesn't pull through). Moreover, we're spending a lot on COIN, if this draws down to an extent, the Army may benefit from peace dividends as well. Initiating the standard issue rifle program sometime in the next 3-5 years is doable.

It would be ideal if this could be approached from the standpoint of meeting the needs of each of the service arms, paramilitary, law enforcement, and regional commercial prospects. The initial cost of licensing the system and producing it domestically could be distributed widely, and the benefit of an advanced locally sourced solution - at competitive pricing no less - would be shared by all.

@Horus

What's interesting is that, we do know for a fact that the FN SCAR has seen some limited use within Pakistani security circles, so it already does have some credibility within Pakistan.

Timeline Photos

Unless I'm mistaking them for a different rifle

[Edit]: Turns out, it IS a different gun. It's an ARX-160. I can't believe I made that mistake, how embarrassing.

 

[Umair Nawaz]

Look people, during Gen kyani's time MPT 76 was considered but it was decided to scrap that option because it was too expensive for mass production at POF. So as of now forget about MPT option.

 

[Quwa]

Look people, during Gen kyani's time MPT 76 was considered but it was decided to scrap that option because it was too expensive for mass product even at POF. So as of now forget about MPT option.

The Mehmetcik-1 was the rifle the PA could have looked at during Kayani's time, the MPT-76 is a 7.62mm development of it and came later in 2014.

 

[Umair Nawaz]

The Mehmetcik-1 was the rifle the PA could have looked at during Kayani's time, the MPT-76 is a 7.62mm development of it and came later in 2014.

this debate abt service riffle is going on since long within army and since gen kyani's last two years in this forum. MPT option has been under debate in this forum as well regardless of her being inservice since just 2014 in turkey.
Horus has also conformed it (prize) and my info was from a Friend in Air Defence.

Chances are of M-4 commando or M16

 

[Hell hound]

@Horus

What's interesting is that, we do know for a fact that the FN SCAR has seen some limited use within Pakistani security circles, so it already does have some credibility within Pakistan.

Timeline Photos

Unless I'm mistaking them for a different rifle

i think thats Beretta arx 160

this is scar

 

[NABZ]

MKEK MPT-76 Mehmetçik-2 automatic rifle (Turkey)

MKEK MPT-76 Mehmetçik-2 automatic rifle




MKEK MPT-76 Mehmetçik-2 automatic rifle



Caliber

7.62x51 NATO

Action

Gas operated

Length, mm

920

Barrel length, mm

410

Weight, kg

4.1

Rate of fire, rounds/minute

650

Magazine capacity, rounds

20



Turkish defense manufacturer MKEK (Makina ve Kimya Endüstrisi Kurumu) began development of a new assault rifle for Turkish armed forces in around 2007. By 2008, MKEK produced a 5.56mm rifle called Mehmetçik-1, based on German HK 416 rifle. After several years of tests and development, Turkish army re-evaluated its requirements, and, based on its actual combat experience with various calibers in service (7.62x51 in HK G3, 7.62x39 in Kalashnikov AKM and 5.56x45 in HK 33), decided to stay with 7.62x51 NATO round for its next army rifle.
As a result, in May 2014 MKEK delivered first batch of 7.62x51mm MKEK MPT-76 automatic rifles to Turkish army. “MPT” stands for Milli Piyade Tüfeği, or National Infantry Rifle in English. MKEK MPT-76 rifle appears to be visually and technically similar to German HK 417 rifle. Fate the 5.56mm Mehmetçik-1 rifle is uncertain at this point (May, 2014).



MKEK MPT-76 rifle is gas operated, select-fire weapon. It uses short stroke gas piston, located above the barrel, and AR-10/Ar-15 style rotary bolt, bolt carrier and return spring system. Aluminum alloy receiver also is based on AR-10/AR-15 design, with upper and lower halves being connected by two captive cross-pins. Rifle features M16-style charging handle, ambidextrous magazine release, bolt hold-open release and safety / fire selector controls. Ammunition is fed from 20-round box magazines, made from translucent polymer. Rifle is equipped with telescoping, adjustable shoulder stock. Front sight is mounted on the gas block and features folding base. Integral Picatinny rail on top of the receiver can hosts aperture-type rear sight (fully adjustable for range and windage), as well as quick-detachable carrying handle with “see-through” channel for standard iron sights plus its own set of iron sights for short-range applications (with U-shaped notch rear sight), built into the top of the handle. Carrying handle can be easily replaced with any type of red-dot, telescope or night sight with appropriate mountings. Additional Picatinny rails on the forend permit mounting of various accessories. Knife-bayonet may be attached for the barrel, if required.

does magazine capacity has any impact on firing rate?

 

[Amaa'n]

@Horus

What's interesting is that, we do know for a fact that the FN SCAR has seen some limited use within Pakistani security circles, so it already does have some credibility within Pakistan.

Timeline Photos

Unless I'm mistaking them for a different rifle

Those are beretta arx.....idk how those landed with them......

 

[Immanuel]

MPT-76 is far from perfect as a battle rifle given our adverse climatic requirements ranging from sub zero arctic warfare conditions in Siachen to terrifying 50+ degree heat in Thar sector and salt water area of operations in run of kuch and Arabian Sea (Since Marines also use G-3s). At $1200 the price is "ridiculous" considering that we will have to produce almost one million service rifles for strategic requirements including Army, Marines, Rangers, FC, SPD SSU and other LEAs that operate 7.62mm rifles.

This is going to be a very expensive investment for us to replace our old rifles, produce new ones and then train our soldiers to use them to battlefield effectiveness levels. Shooters who have operated a certain rifle frame develop muscle memory which makes their shooting abilities instantaneous. It would take us a long time to achieve that with a new frame with new ergonomics.

Having said that, the MPT-76 is basically a Turkish redesign of hk-417. We simply cannot compromise on the quality of the rifle if we are going to pay top dollar price for each unit when produced at POF under license from the manufacturer. We are much better off taking both MPT-76 and hk-417 off the table. The rifle that suits us the best is FN-SCAR-H which has the same caliber as the G-3 so no replacement of millions of rounds needed, it also comes with a Short Barrel Rifle (SBR) variant, a Personal Defense Weapon (PDW) variant, a 5.56mm variant (for certain applications) as well as a Designated Marksman Rifle (DMR) variant, all will be developed on a SINGLE production line.

If we go for SCAR-L and H under licensed production, we can replace G-3s, SBRs as well as MP-5s and out of date DMRs in service all in one go. As a one off payment its going to cost us a lot to acquire the production license and machinery but in the long term its going to be cheaper for us to produce and train our soldiers on a single identical frame. On a side note, i think there is enough data available on the forum on this subject to put it in an article exploring the ideal replacement options for G-3 and MP-5s.

@Icarus @MilSpec @Hyperion @balixd @TaimiKhan

You won't get the SCAR for anything less than $2500, its quite an expensive rifle. Moreso, FN won't allow local manuafcture of this as SCAR was made with the help of US-SF by FN-US and Belgium, you will need Unkil's permit which Unkil won't give. You might get the HK but again very expensive, you're only choice is the Turkish stuff.

 

[kaonalpha]

@kaonalpha Sir when we should expect to hear any news

No news but, the Indian sukhois are going to get swatted down like flies soon.