Pakistan's Service Rifle (G-3, Type-56) Replacement Competition 2016.

[Zarvan]

It seem Baluchistan Police has decided to buy weapons from Czech Republic

 

[Path-Finder]

It seem Baluchistan Police has decided to buy weapons from Czech Republic

Is it rifle or pistol or both?

 

[Zarvan]

Is it rifle or pistol or both?

It seem pretty much everything which Bren company offers there guys were firing weapons and displaying weapons and Scorpion and CZ 807 and 806 and HandGuns all were being displayed. Commander Southern Command was also present there

why soo much secrecy on gun

Because we have a neighbor called India and selection of SCAR will send shock waves there

 

[parkour guy]

It seem pretty much everything which Bren company offers there guys were firing weapons and displaying weapons and Scorpion and CZ 807 and 806 and HandGuns all were being displayed. Commander Southern Command was also present there


Because we have a neighbor called India and selection of SCAR will send shock waves there

They already have MCIWS , That's why we are yearning behind multicaliber.

 

[parkour guy]

There Multi Caliber is not being accepted by there Army

Sounds good,we are not in hurry because of that,CZ traditional rivalry has to be maintained.

 

[Thorough Pro]

LOL, I just remembered his name, we used have one "Nishan" on the forum, @Zarvan has transitioned smoothly in to his role

50 50 50 Hazrat @Zarvan you are on 50/50 and giving us smoke up the back side you always have info!

POF's total export revenue last year was $100MM, that includes small arms ammo and more importantly other stuff i.e. artillery and air dropped munitions to KSA due to their ongoing conflict with Yemen. That "revenue" (not profit) has nothing to do with gun sales or justifies investment in new plant for new AR.

Initial investment in the plant and machinery would be very significant, as no manufacturer just sells his drawings, they would sell you the whole plant (and make money on that too) to ensure that the quality of the product is comparable to that of manufactured by the OEM.

Besides most POF machinery is now more than 50 years old acquired from H&K in 70's. Those machines are manual, old, inefficient, hard and expensive to maintain. It makes total sense to invest in a brand new plant that lasts for another 40/50 years, is efficient, more productive and gives consistent output. Based on my experience total plant cost, spares, dies, installation, commissioning, trial run, training, fare/boarding/lodging cost of foreign engineers in addition to their normal charge of 400/500 dollars an hour would run into a minimum of 500+ million dollars.

The question is does the government has enough funds to allocate?

If the government has balls to raid the houses of just 10 big politicians, I bet my life it can recover more than 100 billion with a "B" stashed in their homes. Just yesterday people in Hyderabad crowned that mother fucker who had 2 billion cash stashed in his house.

It's worth noting that POF might be moving at a faster cadence than the Army. The main drive might be securing exports and building-up competitiveness on the market, and a new rifle design would be necessary.

The cost of transitioning POF to manufacturing a new rifle design is not as much as actually issuing a new rifle in the Army. Yes, some domestic scale will be necessary, but that can be had by having the CPEC Security Division, LCBs, and LEAs to switch to the new gun.

Consider: CZ's revenue last year was U.S. $79 million (source). POF's sale to Saudi Arabia was worth around that much, so I think POF's revenue and work output (for export and local supply) is higher.

@Zarvan this forum is full of posts with your "Solid" information that have quietly evaporated in thin air

It's happening and Army doesn't declare most things which it procures. And in recent defense exhibition not in Pakistan but some where else in the world final talks have begun. It's not optimism I have solid information that is what I am telling you

 

[Gryphon]

It appears negotiations with CZ are still going on.





First introduction of the CZ P-10 C and CZ BREN 2 in the Middle East

This entry was posted on March 2, 2017.

Between 19th and 23rd February 2017, Česká zbrojovka a.s. and its sister company 4M Systems s.r.o. took part in the 16th IDEX exhibition in the United Arab Emirates. It was the first time in the Middle East that the most important Czech manufacturer of small firearms introduced its new CZ P-10 C pistol with a linear striker and the CZ BREN 2, a new generation assault rifle.

At the IDEX 2017 fair, Česká zbrojovka (CZ) and 4M Systems were part of the official Czech Republic exhibition in the number 12 pavilion, involving a total of 16 Czech companies.

In Abu Dhabi, CZ showcased a selection of its existing portfolio of service, defence and sport weapons. Two crucial new models attracted the most attention: the CZ P-10 C defence and service striker fired pistol with a polymer frame and the CZ BREN 2 multi-calibre modular assault rifle. It was the first time these weapons were introduced in this region and both enjoyed a lot of interest from the members of the armed forces as well as other visitors. Other products included in the exhibition were the CZ P-07 and CZ P-09 service and defence polymer pistols, the CZ SHADOW 2 sport special and the CZ SCORPION EVO 3 A1 submachine gun.

Together with products from CZ, there were also ballistic vests from our sister company, 4M Systems. Namely, it was the CZ 4M SPIRIT ballistic t-shirt, the CZ 4M VIP vest and the CZ RAPTOR ballistic vest.

Among some very important people that visited the CZ and 4M Systems stand were the Slovakian Defence Minister Peter Gajdoš and the Czech Deputy Defence Minister Tomáš Kuchta. In addition, an important meeting with the Pakistani Minister of the Defence Industry was held at the fair. With regard to the increased interest in cooperation of suppliers in the United Arab Emirates with CZ, we can conclude that the defence and security organizations in the Middle East are becoming increasingly aware of the quality and significance of the CZ brand.

IDEX is one of the most important global fairs focused on defence and security technology. It is held every two years in Abu Dhabi, the capital of the United Arab Emirates. This year, the National Exhibition Centre (ADNEC) saw 1,235 exhibitors from 57 countries and more than 100,000 visitors from around the world attended. IDEX is the only international trade fair of this type that takes place in the Middle East and North Africa.

The CZ and the 4M Systems stand at the IDEX 2017

A visit to our stand from the Slovakian Defence Minister Peter Gajdoš (left)

It was the very first time the company showcased the CZ P-10 C, its new pistol with a linear striker in the Middle East

Category: Tiskové zprávy, Novinky, DateMarch 2, 2017

First introduction of the CZ P-10 C and CZ BREN 2 in the Middle East

 

[Tiger Awan]

Mr. Zarvan doesn't understand that just because someone works in the military, doesn't mean they know everything that goes on there. Everything is based on "need to know" basis. He may have a friend or two in the army but if they don't work acquisition, they can't tell you shit other than just blowing hot air.

For example, I will be doing a "jump" in unit 1 vault. Will be 5 inches from the reactor face and will be getting good'ol gamma dose. That being said i don't know shit about those reactors. Yes nuclear reactor.

Mr. Zarvan doesn't understand that

agree completely. and the ppl who work in acquisition aren't supposed to tell such things so any news we get is a leak and is automatically not reliable

 

[Arsalan]

LOL, I just remembered his name, we used have one "Nishan" on the forum, @Zarvan has transitioned smoothly in to his role

Nishan? the guy who would sugegest that Army should select ARX, FN SCAR and CZ BERN and also buy HK416, each soldier should be carrying four guns at all times so he can fire whichever guns he wants to!! Who wala Nishan?

POF's total export revenue last year was $100MM, that includes small arms ammo and more importantly other stuff i.e. artillery and air dropped munitions to KSA due to their ongoing conflict with Yemen. That "revenue" (not profit) has nothing to do with gun sales or justifies investment in new plant for new AR.


Initial investment in the plant and machinery would be very significant, as no manufacturer just sells his drawings, they would sell you the whole plant (and make money on that too) to ensure that the quality of the product is comparable to that of manufactured by the OEM.


Besides most POF machinery is now more than 50 years old acquired from H&K in 70's. Those machines are manual, old, inefficient, hard and expensive to maintain. It makes total sense to invest in a brand new plant that lasts for another 40/50 years, is efficient, more productive and gives consistent output. Based on my experience total plant cost, spares, dies, installation, commissioning, trial run, training, fare/boarding/lodging cost of foreign engineers in addition to their normal charge of 400/500 dollars an hour would run into a minimum of 500+ million dollars.


The question is does the government has enough funds to allocate?

POF manufacturing setup is being upgraded as part of a deal signed with Italy already. It includes modernization of machinery and production setup!

 

[Arsalan]

Vast majority of them have proven right and in a recent defence exhibition in a country things have entered final stage I mean talks for new rifle and yes we have funds funds are not the issue turns out we are also looking for Machine Gun and HandGuns and even Sniper may come

FOR EXAMPLE?
Some of them, not VAST MAJORITY but only some of them might have turned out to be true but that is bound to hppane sometimes when one is associating Pakistan with every second military hardware development out there, at a dozen predictions a day, a couple of them might turn out to be true in a year!! It is simple rule of probability.

Still, i will love to see if you can remind me of a few (not vast majority ) of those which turned out to be true?

The Russian Su35 deal? that you promised and confirmed and used words like "i am sure that Su35 is coming and it will be announced in a few days" "there is no doubt" "Su35 is confirmed for PAF" and many other STRONG WORDS and tall claims about? No that it is not happening and have been CONFIRMED AS NOT HAPPENING, you simply choose to say that "those reports are not true, my dost knows it all"!!

Talks about the gun being announced at IDEAS 2016? The word used were "i am sure that IDEAS 2016 will announce the winner" REMEMBER THOSE POSTS?

The Russian SAM or the Atlay tank or the T129 or the Turkish AAW frigates? WHAT VAST MAJORITY HAVE ACTUALLY TURNED OUT TO BE TRUE??


STOP MISLEADING THE MEMBERS!! This is not even right as per Islamic rules if that is something you care about. Tafteesh aur tasdeeq ka bina you cannot MAKE any such claims. It is same as telling a lie!!

If we can get export for three rifle series which pass our tests yes we should produce them. We by only exporting 50 year old G3 and other designs are earning 100 of millions of dollars just imagine what we can get if we have this much to offer. I am not just looking at internal market and law enforcement but also external specially Africa and Middle East.

between or

 

[Arsalan]

For example Pakistan working on Submarine plants everybody denied than @Oscar confirmed it after few months and lot more I have been made fun lot of times and I have been proven right several times.


I am no talking about IDEAS 2016 I am talking about some other defense exhibition which happened in other country recently there talks have entered final stage.

I have lived my entire life in a house less then 1 Km from the facility that was working on the nuclear submarine plant (that was not nuclear propulsion project, just a miniature reactor for this very end use). It was shelved, put into cold storage and remained there until at at least 2014/15. I was one of the first few members to have mentioned that project and then its "on hold status". The funny thing is, the guy you are quoting, @Oscar he himself never act stubborn and claims that what he says is the absolute truth but you do while quoting him as a reference.

I have been proven right on several things and I am right on this one you can laugh as much as you want many laughed on me and than I was laughing at them so nothing new for me I am used to it

So again, i will love to hear about those "number of things" once more. I assure you that all other members here will like the same. I am not laughing at you but i cannot allow you to go on and mislead the members based on what you dream at night or how you want things to be!!! Claiming that whatever you say is the absolute truth and then associating army with some dozen or so procurement per day (surely a couple of them will turn out to be true every few years or so)

As for the second part of your post, You are no talking about IDEAS 2016 NOW because it have come and gone with absolutely 5hit happening regarding those FN SCARS on that exhibitions!! Something that you claimed as "i can assure you it is going to happen on IDEAS 2016". There are dozens of posts stating the same sir, look around!! Now that the fair have come and gone surely you wont say that FN SCAR was procured at the fair and it is just our military which are not confirming it (or will you?) Surely you are now talking about "OTHER FAIRS"

Things are progressing, YES, many here can confirm that. The only difference is that those many have never claimed that the guns will be finalized in two months and absolutely none of them have done it some 8 to 10 times

 

[The Eagle]

@Zarvan bro, if Pakistan Military rejects a rifle, what on right mind can even think that it will still be brought for Police and if we go by the same definition, SSU in Karachi has SCAR in armory so does it mean we inducted the same, No but bought/direct purchase for Police and has nothing to do with Military trials.

Also, Media is not a source nor credible enough to believe like we know how they most of the times shows Missiles without any clue Ghori for Babur or what not. I must say, Media is totally clueless especially when it comes to defence related news and sometimes for rating, they go crazy and did many silly things in past.

Further-more, if I am a civilian then why would a Sarkari Banda will tell me something which is not available in public domain nor is allowed to be told that too on a social website or through some unknown contacts. I will never ever disclose any news which is marked as secret or confidential. Kindly avoid believing words of the people with no credibility. What we all know is, totally tight lipped service till now w.r.t. winner of trials. However, discussing the content on the basis of personal observation is not wrong and everyone is at liberty to do so but we should keep in mind that, the same may not be pushed again & again as a fact that Officials are not telling yet.

Hope you understand.

 

[Bratva]

@Zarvan bro, if Pakistan Military rejects a rifle, what on right mind can even think that it will still be brought for Police and if we go by the same definition, SSU in Karachi has SCAR in armory so does it mean we inducted the same, No but bought/direct purchase for Police and has nothing to do with Military trials.

Also, Media is not a source nor credible enough to believe like we know how they most of the times shows Missiles without any clue Ghori for Babur or what not. I must say, Media is totally clueless especially when it comes to defence related news and sometimes for rating, they go crazy and did many silly things in past.

Further-more, if I am a civilian then why would a Sarkari Banda will tell me something which is not available in public domain nor is allowed to be told that too on a social website or through some unknown contacts. I will never ever disclose any news which is marked as secret or confidential. Kindly avoid believing words of the people with no credibility. What we all know is, totally tight lipped service till now w.r.t. winner of trials. However, discussing the content on the basis of personal observation is not wrong and everyone is at liberty to do so but we should keep in mind that, the same may not be pushed again & again as a fact that Officials are not telling yet.

Hope you understand.

Can we somehow stop this circus in this informative and serious thread ?

 

[Zarvan]

@Zarvan bro, if Pakistan Military rejects a rifle, what on right mind can even think that it will still be brought for Police and if we go by the same definition, SSU in Karachi has SCAR in armory so does it mean we inducted the same, No but bought/direct purchase for Police and has nothing to do with Military trials.

Also, Media is not a source nor credible enough to believe like we know how they most of the times shows Missiles without any clue Ghori for Babur or what not. I must say, Media is totally clueless especially when it comes to defence related news and sometimes for rating, they go crazy and did many silly things in past.

Further-more, if I am a civilian then why would a Sarkari Banda will tell me something which is not available in public domain nor is allowed to be told that too on a social website or through some unknown contacts. I will never ever disclose any news which is marked as secret or confidential. Kindly avoid believing words of the people with no credibility. What we all know is, totally tight lipped service till now w.r.t. winner of trials. However, discussing the content on the basis of personal observation is not wrong and everyone is at liberty to do so but we should keep in mind that, the same may not be pushed again & again as a fact that Officials are not telling yet.

Hope you understand.

What I understand is what I saw. By the way BREN passed the trials specially CZ 807 but yes SCAR was way ahead in performance but BREN also passed the tests in fact CZ 807 is leading candidate in Type 56 replacement program. Baluchistan Police is looking to get new weapons and report was about CZECH showing there weapons and commander southern command was also present on the occasion. There giant size guy was firing CZ 807 and Scorpion and our Police Guy was shown firing some handgun from CZ. What I don't know is whether Baluchistan Government also tested other Rifles or not. Sir many sarkari people tell many things you just should know How to get the info. I am not discussing personal observation I am discussing the info I have.

 

[Gryphon]

@Zarvan bro, if Pakistan Military rejects a rifle, what on right mind can even think that it will still be brought for Police and if we go by the same definition, SSU in Karachi has SCAR in armory so does it mean we inducted the same, No but bought/direct purchase for Police and has nothing to do with Military trials.

Also, Media is not a source nor credible enough to believe like we know how they most of the times shows Missiles without any clue Ghori for Babur or what not. I must say, Media is totally clueless especially when it comes to defence related news and sometimes for rating, they go crazy and did many silly things in past.

Further-more, if I am a civilian then why would a Sarkari Banda will tell me something which is not available in public domain nor is allowed to be told that too on a social website or through some unknown contacts. I will never ever disclose any news which is marked as secret or confidential. Kindly avoid believing words of the people with no credibility. What we all know is, totally tight lipped service till now w.r.t. winner of trials. However, discussing the content on the basis of personal observation is not wrong and everyone is at liberty to do so but we should keep in mind that, the same may not be pushed again & again as a fact that Officials are not telling yet.

Hope you understand.

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