Pakistan's Service Rifle (G-3, Type-56) Replacement Competition 2016.

[sohailbarki]

Everyone wants the SCAR and Bren, and here I am wanting the Italians to win...it's lonely being the only one supporting the ARX

I am with you man.

 

[RAMPAGE]

So who's supporting the Russian x39 cartridge?

 

[Zarvan]

So who's supporting the Russian x39 cartridge?

I don't think Pakistan will change its primary caliber to x 39 I have serious feeling that we are going to opt for two Rifles. One would be either SCAR or Berreta and one would be some AK either AK-103 or new AK-15. Pakistan have some serious love for AK.

 

[RAMPAGE]

I don't think Pakistan will change its primary caliber to x 39 I have serious feeling that we are going to opt for two Rifles. One would be either SCAR or Berreta and one would be some AK either AK-103 or new AK-15. Pakistan have some serious love for AK.

Think again and then some more.

 

[Zarvan]

Think again and then some more.

Pakistan has always stick to 7.62 X 51 considers it the most deadly ammo. We also don't believe in just injuring the enemy we simply go for killing the enemy for that this caliber is best one. But on the other hand the new plant for 7.62 X 39 which was inaugurated by Raheel Shareef few months ago can change things.

 

[PAR 5]

Price of a FN SCAR Rifle is around US$4000 per piece (without the accessories)
Price of the Beretta ARX Rifle is around US$38000 per piece (without the accessories)
Price of the AK Russian is around US$650 per piece (without accessories)
Price of Chinese Type 56 II Rifle is around US$130 per piece (without accessories)

Now multiply each of the prices given above with 50,000 to 100,000 units of initial lot to be purchased from the OEM and then take a sit back to see if we have the money to buy which rifle irrespective of its efficacy during or after trials. You may add the prices of accessories such as sling, scope, holographic sight etc later.

 

[Zarvan]

Price of a FN SCAR Rifle is around US$4000 per piece (without the accessories)
Price of the Beretta ARX Rifle is around US$38000 per piece (without the accessories)
Price of the AK Russian is around US$650 per piece (without accessories)
Price of Chinese Type 56 II Rifle is around US$130 per piece (without accessories)

Now multiply each of the prices given above with 50,000 to 100,000 units of initial lot to be purchased from the OEM and then take a sit back to see if we have the money to buy which rifle irrespective of its efficacy during or after trials. You may add the prices of accessories such as sling, scope, holographic sight etc later.

Friend talked to really senior Army Guys and asked them about this money and they looked actually not really happy on this question. Their answer was that money is not the issue and every calculation was made before starting trials. In other words they didn't woke up one day and said to themselves "Hey let's go for rifle trials" and next day they were having rifle trials. Also they knew How much a rifle would cost and what are prices of these rifles before inviting them for the competition so price is not the issue the question is which rifle would perform best. The delay is not that think are trying to get price reduced the issue coming is when it comes to accuracy G3 is still best but in other aspects other rifles are good. So Pakistan wants to have some more trials before taking final decision

 

[khanasifm]

French just selected hk416 dumping bullpop design and first foreign weapon for French army

 

[Army research]

Received Intel from insider that , I don't know whether you guys already know or not , Beretta still in testing and has quite the chance in all aspects

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

This is from April 2016, but a major Italian business delegation had visited Pakistan to explore investment opportunities. This group was comprised of senior officials (e.g. directors, VPs, etc) from a number of big Italian firms including, among others, Beretta, Leonardo Helicopters, and Elettronica (maker of ECM/EW equipment for fighter aircraft).

http://www.radio.gov.pk/22-Apr-2016/italian-businessmen-keen-to-invest-in-pakistan

It is a big deal if leading officials from these entities decided to make a trip down to Pakistan, only to have a follow-on visit from the Italian MoD in recent weeks (right in the middle of a guilt-trip driven tension with India). If I were a statesman, the last thing I would want to do is respond to such overtures negatively.

@Arsalan @That Guy @Zarvan

 

[Path-Finder]

Received Intel from insider that , I don't know whether you guys already know or not , Beretta still in testing and has quite the chance in all aspects

This is from April 2016, but a major Italian business delegation had visited Pakistan to explore investment opportunities. This group was comprised of senior officials (e.g. directors, VPs, etc) from a number of big Italian firms including, among others, Beretta, Leonardo Helicopters, and Elettronica (maker of ECM/EW equipment for fighter aircraft).

http://www.radio.gov.pk/22-Apr-2016/italian-businessmen-keen-to-invest-in-pakistan

It is a big deal if leading officials from these entities decided to make a trip down to Pakistan, only to have a follow-on visit from the Italian MoD in recent weeks (right in the middle of a guilt-trip driven tension with India). If I were a statesman, the last thing I would want to do is respond to such overtures negatively.

@Arsalan @That Guy @Zarvan

That is music to my ears I am violently vouching for Beretta No but all jokes aside I am hoping and praying that SCAR does not win and Beretta is selected due to the accessories that come with Beretta as a company like optics for example. secondly Beretta can open the way for many other Italian defence procurements as well. Where as SCAR is just a rifle and now we are finding out with some serious unfortunate defects associated with the rifle are coming to surface.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

That is music to my ears I am violently vouching for Beretta No but all jokes aside I am hoping and praying that SCAR does not win and Beretta is selected due to the accessories that come with Beretta as a company like optics for example. secondly Beretta can open the way for many other Italian defence procurements as well. Where as SCAR is just a rifle and now we are finding out with some serious unfortunate defects associated with the rifle are coming to surface.

I wouldn't look at the rifle in as much as the vendor. In other words, even if SCAR was a critically defective rifle, I would ask "is FN able to go back to the design room and pump out an improved version in short order?" This iterative cycle is critical because it seems to me that there are no truly perfect rifles in the running; with each trial the Pakistan Army will have feedback, and then in subsequent years (after long-term usage) the Army will have more feedback, and so on. In other words, we're not just buying a rifle, we're entering into a partnership.

 

[Gryphon]

Trials have run a little too long.

 

[Zarvan]

That is music to my ears I am violently vouching for Beretta No but all jokes aside I am hoping and praying that SCAR does not win and Beretta is selected due to the accessories that come with Beretta as a company like optics for example. secondly Beretta can open the way for many other Italian defence procurements as well. Where as SCAR is just a rifle and now we are finding out with some serious unfortunate defects associated with the rifle are coming to surface.

First of all no defects have come forward in SCAR in our trials. Secondly no rifle is coming with optics. We have to buy optics separately and I see optics from within Pakistan and Turkey but not from Europe. As for these buissesman they have nothing to do with defence matters.

 

[That Guy]

First of all no defects have come forward in SCAR in our trials. Secondly no rifle is coming with optics. We have to buy optics separately and I see optics from within Pakistan and Turkey but not from Europe. As for these businessman they have nothing to do with defence matters.

The defects are mainly from the L version of the SCAR, so its not a surprise that you haven't heard anything about defects. Having said that, it's not a guarantee that any such defects would be reported to the public, and would probably be kept under lock and key, until the trials are complete, so as to discourage other competitors from trying to sabotage or take advantage of these issue, in their favor.

@Path-Finder I believe Pakistan already has a few domestic vendors that can provide solutions for PA's optic needs.