Pakistan's 'secret' war in Baluchistan

[BATMAN]

Guys, name it any thing... BLA or TTP or LJ they are all same people and same master mind.
Label is mere announcement to the press, which is carefully chosen according to the current affairs.

 

[Bhairava]

Absolutely - methodology in the sense that 'attacks on non-combatants' are not legitimate, no matter what the cause.

In the case of the various violent Baluch separatist groups, the fact that they have kidnapped, attacked and killed Baluch and non-Baluch educators, government officials (who are not involved in combat or policing operations) and settlers means that they are in fact terrorist groups.

What about the security agencies, most notably FC, who too have indulged in kidnappings which result in the mutilated bodies every now and then ?

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

And thats what I believe.. Intentional planned attacks on the civilian population to pressurize the govt or to spread anarchy is terrorism.. Pure and simple.. No justification of freedom fight, fighting for religion , Disputed area and all that crap.. Some means can not be justified by any kinds of ends...

In short, whatever be the cause, this blast is a open and shut case of terrorism in my book..

I agree - and I have made the same argument against Palestinian, Taliban and Kashmiri groups that advocate and engage in those types of methods.

 

[foxbat]

Talk about a 'massive military sweep' is just that, 'talk'.

Our 'bleeding heart commentators and civil society members' have apparently decided that exaggeration, wailing and crying and comparisons to East Pakistan are the best way to highlight the issues in Baluchistan, and that is where all this 'rhetoric' of 'military sweeps' comes int. Combine that with the inherent distrust and dislike of the Army in the 'civil society and liberals' group I mentioned, and you have the kind of nonsensical rhetoric you hear too often.

There have been no reports of any kind of 'military sweep', or for that matter an FC sweep, in Baluchistan. The military component of the COIN effort in Baluchistan is largely covert now, with targeted operations against violent separatists and their backers. Overt operations are largely limited to patrols and check-posts here and there.

I wasnt referring to any commentary coming out of Pakistan.. Just the post below

we should start a military crackdown, there is no other options. We have to make an example of those who harm pakistan so no one will follow them.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

What about the security agencies, most notably FC, who too have indulged in kidnappings which result in the mutilated bodies every now and then ?

The FC would argue that their covert targeted operations are focused on individuals that their intel and investigations reveal as being violent separatists and/or backers of violent separatists.

I am not suggesting that the covert FC operations are 'legal' under the Pakistani constitution, but that the FC would argue that they are not targeting 'non-combatants'. The FC's argument would not be that different from the argument made by the US and some of her Western allies in using 'extraordinary renditions' etc. in bypassing their own judicial systems and laws which they see as potentially releasing suspected terrorists.

 

[Bhairava]

The FC would argue that their covert targeted operations are focused on individuals that their intel and investigations reveal as being violent separatists and/or backers of violent separatists.

I am not suggesting that the covert FC operations are 'legal' under the Pakistani constitution, but that the FC would argue that they are not targeting 'non-combatants'. The FC's argument would not be that different from the argument made by the US and some of her Western allies in using 'extraordinary renditions' etc. in bypassing their own judicial systems and laws which they see as potentially releasing suspected terrorists.

The FC has anytime proved that who they are covertly kidnapping and killing are strictly aiding combatants in any court of law ? If not are they the Judge,Jury & Executioner ?

If what they are doing is unconstitutional , as you yourself agree, then how come Pakistanis expect Baloch to have faith in the system - the very system FC break with impunity and don't get punished for ?

BTW the difference between Pakistani &Western ops is that while US and its allies don;t do that on their own land, Pakistan do it in their own land.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

BLA claims Quetta attack, 13 dead

By Shehzad Baloch
Published: December 30, 2011


QUETTA: At least 13 people, including women and children, were killed and 36 others injured in a blast near the residence of politician Shafiq Mengal on Arbab Karam Khan Road in Quetta on Friday evening.

Mengal, the son of former acting Chief Minister and Federal Minister Naseer Mengal was at his residence at the time of the explosion but remained safe.

Deputy Inspector General Nazir Kurd told the reporters that unknown people had planted around 40 to 50 kilograms of explosive materials in a car and parked it near the residence of tribal elder Shafiq Mengal.

According to a local news agency, Online, the banned outfit Baloch Liberation Army (BLA) had claimed responsibility for the explosion saying it was a suicide attack. “BLA Fidaeen was in an explosive laden car that he struck the residence of Shafiq Mengal. It was the first suicide attack carried out by BLA,” the news agency quoted BLA Spokesperson Merik Baloch as announcing. BBC too confirmed the statement.

The blast rocked Quetta and the explosion was heard miles away. A house and several cars parked nearby caught fire due to the explosion. Window panes of hundreds of houses and shops on Arbab Karam Khan Road, Saryab Road and surrounding areas were smashed due to shockwaves of the blast.

Rescue workers shifted the dead bodies and injured to Provincial Sandeman Hospital where state of emergency had already been declared in order to cope with situation developed aftermath of the explosion. Fire tenders and rescue workers in large numbers rushed to the site after the explosion. Rescue workers were busy recovering the dead and injured trapped under the rubble till late in the night.

“We have shifted 13 dead bodies, including a woman and two children, to Provincial Sandeman Hospital and Combined Military Hospital (CMH),” a rescue worker, Babul, said.

At least 12 cars were destroyed in the blast while house of tribal elder Naseer Mengal collapsed. 11 injured people were shifted to Combined Military Hospital (CMH) in critical condition.

The suicide blast seemed to be only part of a larger attack as the explosion was followed by intense firing that sparked fear and panic among the people in the area.

Heavy contingents of police and paramilitary troops Frontier Corps (FC) reached the spot and set up a security perimeter in the area.

Quetta Police Chief Eshan Mehboob said Shafiq Mengal and his family were unhurt in the blast. Mengal had reached his residence an hour before the blast from his ancestral town in Wadh.

Police personnel recovered two homemade bombs from the spot and managed to deactivate it.

“I was passing through Arbab Karam Khan Road and suddenly a huge explosion took place that shook the floor then flame raising in the sky,” Mann Mansoor, a passer-by told The Express Tribune. There was a huge fire following the explosion.

The power supply to Arbab Karam Khan Road, Saryab Road and some adjoining areas was suspended soon after the explosion. However, power supply to Saryab Road was restored after an hour.

The identities of the dead and injured could not be ascertained immediately. However, police officials said security guards of Shafiq Mengal were among the dead.

Chief Minister Balochistan Nawab Aslam Raisani condemned the blast and asked the law enforcing agencies to investigate the tragic incident and ordered the authorities concerned to ensure the treatment of injured people.

BLA claims Quetta attack, 13 dead – The Express Tribune

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

The FC has anytime proved that who they are covertly kidnapping and killing are strictly aiding combatants in any court of law ? If not are they the Judge,Jury & Executioner ?

If what they are doing is unconstitutional , as you yourself agree, then how come Pakistanis expect Baloch to have faith in the system - the very system FC break with impunity and don't get punished for ?

First off, the FC has not admitted to the covert ops, though it is widely speculated.

And no Pakistani has 'faith in the current system' - law enforcement and the judiciary are broken and corruption is rampant.

The Baluch also have to deal with what the rest of Pakistan is dealing and suffering with - only a government that acts to reform these institutions can change perceptions in the Awam about 'having faith in the system'.

BTW the difference between Pakistani &Western ops is that while US and its allies don;t do that on their own land, Pakistan do it in their own land.

They have subjected Western citizens to extraordinary renditions precisely to avoid their judicial and law enforcement systems getting involved.

Given the politicized and weak state of law enforcement and the judiciary in Pakistan, that is not much of an issue in Pakistan which is why suspects are not sent 'overseas' to be tortured and killed, as the Western military and intelligence do.

 

[53fd]

Before 2006, the Baloch nationalism movement was very tame. After Akbar Bugti's killing, the Baloch nationalism movement was on the verge of fizzling out. However, Baloch nationalism intensified, as Bramdagh Bugti escaped from Balochistan into Afghanistan, & was treated as a revered guest in Kabul under Indian presence. Later on, he got exile in Switzerland. Baloch Marri, the other Baloch nationalist, was given refuge in Kabul as well.

Baloch nationalists is unfortunately against the progress of the Baloch people. They fulfill the agendas of foreign forces when they blow up pipelines & other sources of development. Gwadar, the Iran-Pakistan pipeline, other development projects these Baloch nationalists opposed. Seeing that the Iran-Pakistan relationship, or the Pakistan-China development relationship/partnership does not succeed falls under the agendas of a few foreign forces. The Baloch nationalists like to keep their people uneducated, use money to form their private militias/Army to fight the government etc.

Here is the ground reality: in 2010, out of 697 attacks in total in Balochistan, about 520 were from the Baloch nationalist terrorists. The Baloch nationalist movement is spearheaded only by a few figures, a lot of damage has already been caused to the Baloch nationalists by killing key figures, & the movement is dying down, albeit slowly.

 

[Bhairava]

You have not answered the Kashmir part though.

First off, the FC has not admitted to the covert ops, though it is widely speculated.

Any other explanation of who kills them ?

And no Pakistani has 'faith in the current system' - law enforcement and the judiciary are broken and corruption is rampant.

We are talking about the Establishment here...The FC officers are from Army..Rite ?

The Baluch also have to deal with what the rest of Pakistan is dealing and suffering with - only a government that acts to reform these institutions can change perceptions in the Awam about 'having faith in the system'.

The Baloch are not dealing with what other Pakistanis deals with dammit. They are dealing with a systematic,govt (establishment) sponsored muzzling of their voice, an ethnic cleansing. Not the common corruption the average Punjabi faces.

That is very disingenuous of you to say all Pakistanis suffer the same and that only the democratic Govt is responsible for all the ills in the country...partly true..but the Baloch suffer a 'little' more and it's the democratic Govt they suffer from.

They have subjected Western citizens to extraordinary renditions precisely to avoid their judicial and law enforcement systems getting involved.

The underlining point is such happenings dont take place on American soil by CIA..They happen elsewhere and the proceedings too happen outside the continental US. So whatever spin you put on it, both are not the same. The Rangers don't g pick up random Americans from Texas and their mutilated bodies are found weeks later in some ditch.

Given the politicized and weak state of law enforcement and the judiciary in Pakistan, that is not much of an issue in Pakistan which is why suspects are not sent 'overseas' to be tortured and killed, as the Western military and intelligence do.

Then they are different and rest are all excuses.

The thing is the Punjabi Army (in Sardar Mengal's words) is unleashing a wave of kidnappings & killings of common Baloch to send a message that anyone can end up this way and make no mistake, Balochis are not Kashmiri Muslims( who require an outsider to fight their war).

---------- Post added at 02:43 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:42 AM ----------

Before 2006, the Baloch nationalism movement was very tame....

Baloch nationalism has been there right from 1948 when Maj.gen Akbar Khan invaded the sovereign state of Kalat and forcefully annexed it into Pakistan...this is the fifth war of independence and I don't see the Baloch resting.

 

[Areesh]

The Baloch are not dealing with what other Pakistanis deals with dammit. They are dealing with a systematic,govt (establishment) sponsored muzzling of their voice, an ethnic cleansing. Not the common corruption the average Punjabi faces.

Wait wait wait. Ethnic cleansing? Really. I think you were whining about dumping of dead bodies right? And now you say their is some ethnic cleansing by Pakistani forces committed against Baloch. OK. Now the human rights organization have said around 220 dead bodies have been found from different parts of Baluchistan. Now if we assume all of them were killed and dumped by Pakistani forces(which obviously isn't true) can you please tell me how it can be termed as an ethnic cleansing of a population around 5 million Baloch. How in the world can we cleanse Baluchistan ethnically by killing 200 people in around more than 1 year time?

Can you explain to us Pakistanis why your post looks illogical?

 

[Bhairava]

Wait wait wait. Ethnic cleansing? Really. I think you were whining about dumping of dead bodies right? And now you say their is some ethnic cleansing by Pakistani forces committed against Baloch. OK. Now the human rights organization have said around 220 dead bodies have been found from different parts of Baluchistan. Now if we assume all of them were killed and dumped by Pakistani forces(which obviously isn't true) can you please tell me how it can be termed as an ethnic cleansing of a population around 5 million Baloch. How in the world can we cleanse Baluchistan ethnically by killing 200 people in around more than 1 year time?

Can you explain to us Pakistanis why your post looks illogical?

Ethnic cleansing in the sense - their ethnicity is what gets them kidnapped and killed. And how come it's "obviously" not true ?

 

[Areesh]

Ethnic cleansing in the sense - their ethnicity is what gets them kidnapped and killed.

If ethnicity is the only reason then why only Baloch living in Baluchistan are kidnapped? Why not Baluch living in Sindh and Punjab aren't kidnapped? Their are more Baluchis in Sindh and Punjab than Baluchistan itself. And why the other Baluchis of Baluchistan haven't been kidnapped by now if it is just because of ethnicity?

I think you should edit your post about ethnic cleansing because you are failing to apply the general and accepted definition of "ethnic cleansing" to the Baluchistan issue.

And how come it's "obviously" not true ?

Because with today's blast BLA has already proved that they are also capable of doing "ethnic cleansing" in Baluchistan. It's logically not true my friend.

 

[Areesh]

Baloch nationalism has been there right from 1948 when Maj.gen Akbar Khan invaded the sovereign state of Kalat and forcefully annexed it into Pakistan...this is the fifth war of independence and I don't see the Baloch resting.

By the way the guy who started the first insurgency his name was Prince Karim I guess, to just to add something to your knowledge the son and daughter in law of that guy are in the provincial cabinet right now. So Baloch can and will rest. Sorry.

 

[Areesh]

Humko maloom hain jannat ki haqueekat, par dil ke behlane ko Ghalib, yeh khayal achha hai..

As I said earlier I know about my country more than you guys. But since you are optimistic about the existence and continuation of violent and terrorist movement I can say the same thing to you too particularly after what happened to TTP.

Humko maloom hain jannat ki haqueekat, par dil ke behlane ko Ghalib, yeh khayal achha hai..