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Pakistan's Pride, Enemy's Envy

You do know that, the sanctions were made when Pressler agreement came into force(although its unfair to sanction the purchases predate the agreement). But then again you were also helped by US (Majority of your military aid about $3.5 billion was used) for development of your nuclear program. Thats about it for Pakistan US relationship and what happened and why.

About Indias dealing with US, or any other country we ensure that we have enough engines or spare parts for maintenance (only Russia gives us issues as they themselves dont have enough spare parts). For ex- LCA has additional capacity of 100 F 404 engines extra. And for Rafale, France is building its service centres in India. I agree that we are not sanction proof but rest assures there wont be any issue from US if we get into a war with you or China, unless its a NATO country.
I think u have a point. USA and India are aligned on most issues and that is where support comes in. But India will not become as close to USA as UK, Israel or japan. These countries have very close alignment with USA policies

Nevertheless the partnership is growing.

Pakistan should blame themselves of not availing opportunity to develop when the entire west West and middle East was behind them . When I say develop I mean to a level of Korea or Taiwan
 
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May be Pakiistan's pride but certainly will not be enemys envy.
 
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1965 air war was a different story , iaf got quantitative edge 450 + from paf 180+ . But paf got qualitative edge with worlds best aircrafts available in that era with best strategy and outstanding pilot training . But iaf lack strategy and had poor pilto training . Results : paf got complete air superiority by shooting down almost 110+ iaf aircrafts and losing only 17 aircrafts .
But now things are bit tricky . Paf got same traditional standards of pilots and air warfare strategy . But has lost qualitative edge . Iaf is ahead in quantity ( 400 + modern capable fighter jets su 30 , rafale , mig 29 and mirage 2k ) and paf got 190 + modern capable fighter jets f16s and jf17 )
Still paf can give a fair fight to iaf including air defence factor .
And if we had only 3 more squadrons of 4.5 gen ( like su35 , ef typhoon , j20 ,f15E ) and we go to war with iaf results would be same as 1965 . Ad iaf stilll lack good startegy and have pathetic pilots .
 
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1965 air war was a different story , iaf got quantitative edge 450 + from paf 180+ . But paf got qualitative edge with worlds best aircrafts available in that era with best strategy and outstanding pilot training . But iaf lack strategy and had poor pilto training . Results : paf got complete air superiority by shooting down almost 110+ iaf aircrafts and losing only 17 aircrafts .
But now things are bit tricky . Paf got same traditional standards of pilots and air warfare strategy . But has lost qualitative edge . Iaf is ahead in quantity ( 400 + modern capable fighter jets su 30 , rafale , mig 29 and mirage 2k ) and paf got 190 + modern capable fighter jets f16s and jf17 )
Still paf can give a fair fight to iaf including air defence factor .
And if we had only 3 more squadrons of 4.5 gen ( like su35 , ef typhoon , j20 ,f15E ) and we go to war with iaf results would be same as 1965 . Ad iaf stilll lack good startegy and have pathetic pilots .
Firstly j20 is not 4.5 gen, secondly we will soon have 5th gen fighters thirdly and more importantly if we go to war today results will be better than 1965 war trust me, iaf is at it's historic low
 
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An aircraft alone does not and cannot make the difference, however when it is a part of a well-oiled machinery or perhaps a well-drilled system, it can punch above its weight. PAF does not rely on one type of aircraft to defend Pakistan's airspace. It relies on a combination of types/capabilities to make things challenging for its adversary.

The shiny kit syndrome aside, what makes a difference is how the hi-lo tech assets are employed and the most out of the lo tech assets is derived to support the national defense goals. This strategy and the training makes ALL the difference. There are certain "game-changer" capabilities that can turn the tide of the air campaign in ones favor. If we look back in time, these have been evolutionary and in some cases, revolutionary technologies. As an example, introduction of jet propulsion, AAMs, AWACS, BVR, and Stealth are among the more prominent ones. If an air arm is going up against another where one side has all of these and the other does not, then its a clear disadvantage.

However, in the case of Pakistan and its primary adversary, this does not apply. Both sides field platforms with capabilities of similar types/class. When the PAF fights, it fights as a system. It is looking at force multiplication to enhance its entire fleet and air defense assets. Yes numbers matter, but so do sortie rates, pilot:cockpit ratio, availability of spares (access to and indigenization of components) etc.

Armchair cynics have the easiest job in the world. They just have to lob excrement on anything and it is accepted because it "sounds" true. In most cases, it is simply a matter of putting doubt, whether it is based on facts or not does not matter. Reality is that had Pakistan realized that it could not contest the airspace against its adversary, the investments would be in a different direction. However, there is a clear understanding in the minds of the operators that we have the training, ability and also the assets to deter. An Air force that has been around for 6+ decades, through active combat, multiple operational deployments, and sanctions is not a force that will simply lie down and throw in the towel since the other side has inducted a new platform.

Where there is a will, there is a way. This has been the case with the PAF always and I see no reason for this silly, sometime comical, cynicism and pessimism. By the way, some cynicism is healthy, but the constantly on tap is outright boring!
 
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1965 air war was a different story , iaf got quantitative edge 450 + from paf 180+ . But paf got qualitative edge with worlds best aircrafts available in that era with best strategy and outstanding pilot training . But iaf lack strategy and had poor pilto training . Results : paf got complete air superiority by shooting down almost 110+ iaf aircrafts and losing only 17 aircrafts .
But now things are bit tricky . Paf got same traditional standards of pilots and air warfare strategy . But has lost qualitative edge . Iaf is ahead in quantity ( 400 + modern capable fighter jets su 30 , rafale , mig 29 and mirage 2k ) and paf got 190 + modern capable fighter jets f16s and jf17 )
Still paf can give a fair fight to iaf including air defence factor .
And if we had only 3 more squadrons of 4.5 gen ( like su35 , ef typhoon , j20 ,f15E ) and we go to war with iaf results would be same as 1965 . Ad iaf stilll lack good startegy and have pathetic pilots .
No mig21 were far superior ...IAF had a generation ahead fighters

Pakistan simoly took IAF by surprise
 
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An aircraft alone does not and cannot make the difference, however when it is a part of a well-oiled machinery or perhaps a well-drilled system, it can punch above its weight. PAF does not rely on one type of aircraft to defend Pakistan's airspace. It relies on a combination of types/capabilities to make things challenging for its adversary.

The shiny kit syndrome aside, what makes a difference is how the hi-lo tech assets are employed and the most out of the lo tech assets is derived to support the national defense goals. This strategy and the training makes ALL the difference. There are certain "game-changer" capabilities that can turn the tide of the air campaign in ones favor. If we look back in time, these have been evolutionary and in some cases, revolutionary technologies. As an example, introduction of jet propulsion, AAMs, AWACS, BVR, and Stealth are among the more prominent ones. If an air arm is going up against another where one side has all of these and the other does not, then its a clear disadvantage.

However, in the case of Pakistan and its primary adversary, this does not apply. Both sides field platforms with capabilities of similar types/class. When the PAF fights, it fights as a system. It is looking at force multiplication to enhance its entire fleet and air defense assets. Yes numbers matter, but so do sortie rates, pilot:cockpit ratio, availability of spares (access to and indigenization of components) etc.

Armchair cynics have the easiest job in the world. They just have to lob excrement on anything and it is accepted because it "sounds" true. In most cases, it is simply a matter of putting doubt, whether it is based on facts or not does not matter. Reality is that had Pakistan realized that it could not contest the airspace against its adversary, the investments would be in a different direction. However, there is a clear understanding in the minds of the operators that we have the training, ability and also the assets to deter. An Air force that has been around for 6+ decades, through active combat, multiple operational deployments, and sanctions is not a force that will simply lie down and throw in the towel since the other side has inducted a new platform.

Where there is a will, there is a way. This has been the case with the PAF always and I see no reason for this silly, sometime comical, cynicism and pessimism. By the way, some cynicism is healthy, but the constantly on tap is outright boring!
100% right. PAF can kick *** of IAF anytime, anywhere, I do not have an iota of doubt. Merely the fact that IAF did not have the courage to cross international border even during Kargil, Brasstacks, Attacks on Indian National Assembly, surgical strikes (so called), nuclear detonations and many other such incidents (other than a high speed sound barrier breaking) is enough proof that PAF has sufficient stopping as well as attacking power over IAF.
 
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I think u have a point. USA and India are aligned on most issues and that is where support comes in. But India will not become as close to USA as UK, Israel or japan. These countries have very close alignment with USA policies

Nevertheless the partnership is growing.

Pakistan should blame themselves of not availing opportunity to develop when the entire west West and middle East was behind them . When I say develop I mean to a level of Korea or Taiwan

Touching on the last paragraph, you did avail the opportunity. You built your arsenal, you became a nuke power. The only thing that let you down is not being judgmental in which path to tread, + your internal turmoil which is your biggest weak link.
 
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Touching on the last paragraph, you did avail the opportunity. You built your arsenal, you became a nuke power. The only thing that let you down is not being judgmental in which path to tread, + your internal turmoil which is your biggest weak link.
We are very clear which path to tread. Pakistan has to be strong, Kashmir has to join Pakistan, we have to be an Islamic welfare state and our internal turmoil is due to INDIA-US-ISRAEL nexus. We are very clear headed now.
 
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jf.png
 
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This is not a pride windy sb, its a curse, a curse that keeps us entangled to the US web of deceit and lies.
This should be the pride of PAF:
maxresdefault.jpg

Am i mistaken or do I see conformal wing tank above the left wing?
 
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