Pakistan's plans for 5th generation

[saiko]

DRDO has made many a mistakes and wasted a lot of money. But the thing is that their failures are trumpeted(usually by the foreign lobbies), while their truely remarkable successes are not at all printed-Ever.

DRDO is underrated-grossly.

There are some good things coming out of the DRDO, don't get me wrong. One of the coolest things I remember reading about is how the DRDO developed a chromium based lining that can be applied to any missile that vaporizes when the missiles goes hypersonic and this decreases drag by 50% with corresponding range enhancements at low cost.

But the number of failed projects that take huge budget supplementals to correct (not to mention years of time) is practically unheard of. I have never seen a defence establishment so desperate to jump generations as fast as in India.

It seems like India is desperate to pass China both in military and economy - rather than taking the more measured approach China, Singapore, Taiwan, South Korea, etc did. During the IT boom I remember reading many Indian commentators talking about how India would leapfrog China economically by going directly to a service-based economy like most first-world nations currently have. So what, 4 million IT jobs later and that dream ended up a bust. 4 million out of 1 billion people is just not enough. You can't skip manufacturing because manufacturing is a huge multiplier in terms of jobs.

Likewise, it seems like DRDO is trying to go from building low-tech aircraft and ships to building aircraft carriers, front-line fighters, main battle tanks, etc. And it shows.

 

[Contrarian]

I think Indian commentators are harsher. Hindu, Frontline and others who have written constantly are not foreign.

Some are. It depends more on the reporter, than on the newspaper. Then it depends on the product. Whether those specific companies also make that product and are selling it to India.

DRDO is at fault for many projects, but not the way a lot of the media has projected it to be. And certainly not a failure in every project that it takes up.

 

[Contrarian]

There are some good things coming out of the DRDO, don't get me wrong. One of the coolest things I remember reading about is how the DRDO developed a chromium based lining that can be applied to any missile that vaporizes when the missiles goes hypersonic and this decreases drag by 50% with corresponding range enhancements at low cost.

But the number of failed projects that take huge budget supplementals to correct (not to mention years of time) is practically unheard of. I have never seen a defence establishment so desperate to jump generations as fast as in India.

It seems like India is desperate to pass China both in military and economy - rather than taking the more measured approach China, Singapore, Taiwan, South Korea, etc did. During the IT boom I remember reading many Indian commentators talking about how India would leapfrog China economically by going directly to a service-based economy like most first-world nations currently have. So what, 4 million IT jobs later and that dream ended up a bust. 4 million out of 1 billion people is just not enough. You can't skip manufacturing because manufacturing is a huge multiplier in terms of jobs.

Likewise, it seems like DRDO is trying to go from building low-tech aircraft and ships to building aircraft carriers, front-line fighters, main battle tanks, etc. And it shows.

Yeah. They are taking measured approaches now though. Joint Ventures are being promoted by the Govt. Now DRDO is encouraged to start a JV with private companies for projects.

But you know what many people dont understand is that the amount of research and years they put into those projects has yielded intangible results. For example, the amount of research put into LCA has yielded a composite's industry in India. Previously India didnt have any composite manufacturing or research capability. There have been numerous spinoffs from LCA like the MC for the Su-30, the RWR, etc which are actually better than the Russian one's-they have infact been exported to Malaysia, Indonesia, etc.

Because of the LCA project, HAL was able to upgrade the MiG 27 on its own without any help from any foreign partner, same for Jags(not now though, this comming upgrade pertains to a different engine, radar, etc).

There are a hundred such things, that dont make news, and people on forums think that all there is to DRDO is failures like LCA.

They dont know about the research put in, industrial capacity built, etc, etc.

 

[SEAL]

well i love to see F-35 n paf fleet other options are
Stealthy J-10B
or J-XX

 

[saiko]

Yeah. They are taking measured approaches now though. Joint Ventures are being promoted by the Govt. Now DRDO is encouraged to start a JV with private companies for projects.

But you know what many people dont understand is that the amount of research and years they put into those projects has yielded intangible results. For example, the amount of research put into LCA has yielded a composite's industry in India. Previously India didnt have any composite manufacturing or research capability. There have been numerous spinoffs from LCA like the MC for the Su-30, the RWR, etc which are actually better than the Russian one's-they have infact been exported to Malaysia, Indonesia, etc.

Because of the LCA project, HAL was able to upgrade the MiG 27 on its own without any help from any foreign partner, same for Jags(not now though, this comming upgrade pertains to a different engine, radar, etc).

There are a hundred such things, that dont make news, and people on forums think that all there is to DRDO is failures like LCA.

They dont know about the research put in, industrial capacity built, etc, etc.

Fair enough - when all is said and done it may have advanced your domestic defence industry faster than any other approach.

 

[Contrarian]

Fair enough - when all is said and done it may have advanced your domestic defence industry faster than any other approach.

That is exactly what i have tried to point out. With regards to setting up your own industrial and research base, there is no alternative. JV's give the product faster, but it doesnt give you the right process.

The number of scientists in India now in the Aeronautical field, and with experience would surprise you. There are over 500 labs working on the LCA project. India developed technologies like the FBW which though can be obtained relatively easily. It still does not give you that base-research and industrial.

Now that India has a sufficiently big research and industrial base, technologies from JV's can be absorbed and produced MUCH faster compared to before.

Its a matter of economies of scale. Pakistan cannot emulate the Indian or Chinese model, because that requires you to even waste money on seemingly unfruitful projects. However, when Pakistan does become an economy of size, you will see them also going it alone on a majority of projects. There is no alternative.

 

[Munir]

India's advantage is that it has the cash (willing to use it). It has impressive force of educated engineers. But the problem rmains political and end user. I do not have to explain the perils of politicians. But if the enduser is willing to go only for the best and you have to do it with less cash then I do not think we should blaim DRDO for everything. Looking at the number of projects they are doomed to get into trouble. They are forced to use newer technologies, complexer products and impossible time frames. But if that means that the learn faster then it is worth every penny. Something we should hope for Pakistan. No cash, few projects and hardly the option of foreign parts/assistance... But they learn cause there is alternative.

 

[Arsalan]

a stealty fighter with PAF is a bit out of question for atleast another 10 to 12 years!!

we may be good enough without them if we can get the f16 upgrades, that a big big IF
we will inshallah also be getting the FC 20 and the JF17 with mods in next blocks.

all this set up can support us for 5 to 10 years but in the mean while we must start working on a 5th generation fighter, it may be indeginious or we may start sorting out means to raise budget to get them from some other countries ie we must start improving the JF17 and extensively marketing it to get its customers going!!

anyway all i want to say is that we are not going to get a 5th generation plane atleast for the comming 5 to 10 years!

 

[a1b2c145]

well i love to see F-35 n paf fleet other options are
Stealthy J-10B
or J-XX

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Click my name "a1b2c145" and you 'll see something more interesting~~~~~~~