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Pakistan’s PL-15 Missile Equipped JF-17 Block 3 is a Serious Game Changer - How India Can Respond to

Teja already pass expiry date ..don't waste money.. still need more modification to see air combat. Pakistan already tested JF17 on Feb 27th , plus its already on AtoG service along Afghan border on night mission.

On Feb 27th (nothing special) even mirage 2000 a older plane (40 years) done something but we know the limitations in the future.

Hal Tejas mk1a is more then enough with Astra missile -2 (150- 200 km), I will repeat again.

China is working and having more advanced fighter planes and we need have a good numbers of fighter planes to counter them..

Any Pakistani fighter plane is threat to india including Chengdu J-7 but jf 17 do not give technical advantage to Pakistan over IAF
 
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Only pic available ..but its kinda oversize

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No its not a pl15 but pl-XX it will be have a range of 300-400 km attacking AWACS/TANKERS AND OTHER ISR AIRCRAFTS

WHEREAS PL-15 HAVE RANGE OF 150-200 KM SIMILAR IN CLASS AS AMRAAM C7

On Feb 27th (nothing special) even mirage 2000 a older plane (30 years) done something but we know the limitations in the future.

Hal Tejas mk1a is more then enough I will repeat again.

China is working and having more advanced fighter planes and we need have a good numbers of fighter planes to counter them..

Any Pakistani fighter plane is threat to india including Chengdu J-7 but jf 17 do not give technical advantage to Pakistan over IAF
FIRSTLY YOU MAKE AND PRODUCE MK1A/ASTRA MK2 THEN TALK WHEN YOU WILL INDUCT MK1A AND ASTRA MK2 THAN WE WILL HAVE 30-40 BLOCK-3 AND DEVELOP A TACTICS AGAINST RAFALE/MKI/ TEJAS MK1A
 
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No its not a pl15 but pl-XX it will be have a range of 300-400 km attacking AWACS/TANKERS AND OTHER ISR AIRCRAFTS

WHEREAS PL-15 HAVE RANGE OF 150-200 KM SIMILAR IN CLASS AS AMRAAM C7


FIRSTLY YOU MAKE AND PRODUCE MK1A/ASTRA MK2 THEN TALK WHEN YOU WILL INDUCT MK1A AND ASTRA MK2 THAN WE WILL HAVE 30-40 BLOCK-3 AND DEVELOP A TACTICS AGAINST RAFALE/MKI/ TEJAS MK1A

Yaar, same goes to Pakistan! Don't you think?
1st get the jf 17 block 3 with pl-15 missile..

Currently, jf 17 block 2 and hal Tejas ( foc standard) belongs to the same category (technically).

Yes, there is one advantage with jf 17, numbers and flown experience from past 10 years.
 
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(Indian perspective)

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he Indian Air Force is planning massive investments fo the modernisation of its fighter fleet, and alongside ongoing orders for elite Su-30MKI heavyweight fighters and Rafale and MiG-29 medium fighters the country is pursuing the indigenous Tejas light fighter program and planning additional contracts for foreign jets. The MMRCA competition will select one of seven current contenders from Russia and the West to be manufactured in India under licence, with the MiG-35, Rafale and Su-35 considered the three leading frontrunners. Upgrades to the Su-30MKI are also ongoing ensuring that it will remain the country’s most capable fighter - including the possible integration of the next generation Irbis-E radar, AL-41 engines and R-37M hypersonic missiles which would make it far more potent in air to air combat.





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Rafale Medium Fighter (left) and Su-30MKI Heavyweight Fighters




Despite considerable investments in modernisation, the balance of power in the air with neighbouring Pakistan may soon deteriorate as the Pakistani Air Force pursues a far cheaper modernisation program for its own fighter fleet centred around two main programs - the JF-17 and Project AZM. The most advanced variants of the JF-17 the JF-17B and JF-17 Block 2 currently have capabilities comparable to lower end Indian fighters. These jets are overall slightly superior to the Mirage 2000, but face a considerable disadvantage if facing the MiG-29 or Rafale - let alone the Su-30MKI which would retain an overwhelming advantage across the spectrum. These JF-17 variants nevertheless represent a considerable upgrade for the Pakistani Air Force from reliance on near obsolete J-7 and Mirage III fighters, and currently form the elite of the fleet alongside American F-16C Fighting Falcons. The JF-17 is the only Pakistani fighter other than the F-16 equipped with active radar guided air to air missiles - namely the PL-12 with a 100km range.





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Pakistani Air Force JF-17 Light Fighter




While the JF-17 Block 2 represents is far from a qualitative peer to the majority of the Indian fleet, the upcoming JF-17 Block 3 variant unveiled in December 2019 appears set to be a game changer for Pakistani aerial warfare capabilities. The fighter integrates some limited stealth features, a more powerful engine, a larger AESA radar, the first ever infra red search and track system on a Pakistani fighter, new electronic warfare systems and PL-15 long range air to air missiles. With an estimated range of 200-300km, the PL-15 will outrange all of India’s existing air to air missiles built for use against fighters - from the 80km range MICA used by Rafale and Mirage 2000 jets to the 110km range R-77 used by the MiG-21, MiG-29 and Su-30MKI. With Pakistan potentially fielding over 100 of these new fighters, including both single and twin seat variants, the JF-17 Block 3 could be a serious game changer.





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PL-15 Air to Air Missiles




Indian Air Force veteran Vijainder K Thakur stated in an interview with Russian state media outlet Sputnik regarding the threat posed by the new JF-17 variant that India’s focus on acquiring more capable fighters, at the expense of providing them with sufficiently capable missiles and sensors, could leave aircraft technically superior to the JF-17 such as the Su-30MKI at a disadvantage. He stated to this effect: “The India Air Force allowed itself to be outgunned by focusing on platform acquisitions, rather than weapon system and sensor upgrades. With sufficient military foresight, the IAF could have armed its Su-30MKI with longer range air-to-air missiles acquired from Russia rather than continuing to rely on the lesser ranged missile ordered years ago from Ukraine.” These Russian and Ukranian missiles likely referred to the R-37M and R-77 - the newer Russian missiles - rather than the older R-27 which is today produced in both Russia and Ukraine.





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R-37M Hypersonic Air to Air Missile




India for its part does have options to regain its advantage. Equipping its small Rafale fleet with Meteor missiles would provide a partial return to parity, although as the Rafales are not built in India it would be more difficult to apply upgrades to the designs as frequently as Pakistan could do for the domestically manufactured JF-17. The performances of the PL-15 and Meteor are considered comparable, although China’s far greater investments in research and development for new air to air missiles means a more capable missile is likely to become available for the JF-17 long before it does for the Rafale. India’s two other leading options would be two purchase the MiG-35, which is highly likely whether as part of the MMRCA deal or otherwise, as these AESA radar equipped fighters can deploy R-37M and possibly K-77 missiles which can comfortably outperform both the PL-15 and the Meteor. Another would be to proceed with upgrading the Su-30MKI with the Irbis-E radar and R-37M missiles - technologies from the Su-35 which would provide it with an overwhelming advantage over the JF-17 Block 3.





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Su-57 Next Generation Fighter




Other options which are less likely to be pursued in the immediate future would be to acquire the Su-57 next generation fighter, or else to select the Su-35 as the winner of the MMRCA tender, with these heavyweight jets again retaining a sufficient performance advantage to reliably overcome the new JF-17 variant - and almost certainly its stealthy successor the stealthy Project AZM fighter as well. A Su-57 purchase remains highly likely by the mid-late 2020s, either as part of a licence production deal or as an off the shelf purchase. India is also jointly developing a new hypersonic air to air missile for the Su-30MKI with similar capabilities to the R-37 but a slightly longer range - and while intended primarily to neutralise enemy support aircraft a variant capable of threatening fighters could also become available.




JF-17 Block 3 Fighter Prototype
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Tags
AL-41Chinese Arms ExportsIndian Air ForceIndian-Pakistani ConflictIrbis-EJF-17JF-17 Block 2JF-17 Block 3JF-17BMMRCAMeteorMiG-35PL-15Pakistani Air ForceR-37R-37MR-77R=27RafaleSu-30Su-30MKISu-35Vijainder K Thakur
Baseless article basedte on comments of usless Russian lobbyist Vijander Thakur.

Fortunately he is wrong as PL-15 is much inferior to Meteor, PL-15 is regarded as comparable to AIM-120D (Meteor is 2 times superior to AIM-120D in every engagement envelope).

More importantly PL-15 is fitted with dual pulse motor which is a much older tech compared to Meteor's Ramjet engine, which is why Meteor's No escape zone is a whopping 60-70 km & that of AIM-120C is only 25 km & for AIM-120D 35 km (same as PL-15).
Thanks to ramjet, Meteor is the only operational air to air missile in the entire known universe that is capable of terminal stage manuevers.

For long-range air-to-air missiles, the US military believes that China's PL-15 is at best comparable to the latest US military AIM-120D.

https://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/china/pl-15.htm

Sitting beside Indian Defence Minister Rajnath Singh, Air Force Chief Rakesh Kumar Bhadauria issued a strong warning to the political leadership of India, claiming that the Rafale fighter jet is insufficient to meet the country's defence needs.
He never said that.
What he said that is we need more than 36 Rafale or equivalent jets and the long range engagement capabilty of Rafale must also be possesed by other jets, which is why IAF has begun induction of Astras for Su-30, MiG-29 and Tejas.

The R-77ME is the closest the Indian's will get to the PL-15 and it is not even in operational service with the Russians yet, let alone the Indians.
Meteor is superior to PL-15E in every single aspect
 
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Jf 17 is no worries for India...

Half Tejas Mk1a is more then enough to deal with..
Just need to more focus on Astra AA missile with range approx 150-200 km.

We have bigger challenges from China because they have sufficient number of advanced fighter planes..

So you pilots shot down, and one of them paraded in front of the whole world and then released at Wagah border with utter humiliation is not enough for you people, and you now want the Chinese to bang you!! Shame has no meaning for you guys! :omghaha:
 
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Yaar, same goes to Pakistan! Don't you think?
1st get the jf 17 block 3 with pl-15 missile..

Currently, jf 17 block 2 and hal Tejas ( foc standard) belongs to the same category (technically).

Yes, there is one advantage with jf 17, numbers and flown experience from past 10 years.
BLOCK-3 production will start later this year or earlier next Year but your MK1A will test and fly started in 2022 and production will started afterwards so you will get MK1A and/ASTRA MK2 combo in 2023-2024 timeframe (most probably) but we will have block-3/PL-15 combo in 2021
 
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BLOCK-3 production will start later this year or earlier next Year but your MK1A will test and fly started in 2022 and production will started afterwards so you will get MK1A and/ASTRA MK2 combo in 2023-2024 timeframe (most probably) but we will have block-3/PL-15 combo in 2021

Yaar, sorry but I have very straight forward calculation.

As of now, we have good number of 4th generation fighter planes against Pakistan including if you talk about jf 17 block 3 because we are also getting Rafale.

Now for the future perspective, hal Tejas mk1a will be available within 5 years and later mk 2 and so on. It will be more then enough to counter any threats with Su mki, and Rafale.

If you talk about technological advantage then we have to look our strength against Chinese as well because they are already having advantage against us.

We need to fill the gap of numbers (non one to one but minimum) and technological. So, we need to more focus to get the 5th generation fighter planes because we will not able to make before 2030.
 
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within 5 years
AS YOU SAY YOU WILL HAVE MK1A/ASTRA COMBO 2025, WARS HAD NOT WIN ONLY ON QUANTITIES BUT QUALITIES/TRAINING/TACTICS,ALL IN PAK-INDO WARS JET VS RATIO WERE ALWAYS IN YOUR FAVOR (6:1) AND NOW TELL WHAT HAPPENED IN 65 WAR , MOST NEUTRAL SOURCES SAY WE DESTROYED YOUR 110 JET AND LOSE ONLY 19 JETS, AND IN 71 WE WELL DEFENDED OUR COUNTRY (WEST PAKISTAN)
 
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AS YOU SAY YOU WILL HAVE MK1A/ASTRA COMBO 2025, WARS HAD NOT WIN ONLY ON QUANTITIES BUT QUALITIES/TRAINING/TACTICS,ALL IN PAK-INDO WARS JET VS RATIO WERE ALWAYS IN YOUR FAVOR (6:1) AND NOW TELL WHAT HAPPENED IN 65 WAR , MOST NEUTRAL SOURCES SAY WE DESTROYED YOUR 110 JET AND LOSE ONLY 19 JETS, AND IN 71 WE WELL DEFENDED OUR COUNTRY (WEST PAKISTAN)

Ratio is incorrect including claim.

Yes, during the1965 war IAf lost more fighters then PAf but you need to consider also that PAF was having many fighter planes with the missiles but IAF was none.
Example - f 104 starfighter with sidewinder missiles
F 86 with AIM-9B/GAR-8 sidewinder missiles

So, I don't find any advantage of training etc.... Its all about technological advantage..

I don't count BS claim for better training etc..
 
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PL-15 is as good as not permitted to fire SD-10 and un-done H4 fire.

On 27th February, world witnessed that Pakistan have the capacity to tame InAF, without PL-15, but than they did not go for the kill. :secret:

PAF's weakness lies in Banigala, not in BVR quality.
PAF did what it had to do to get the message across and by the looks of it, it was received loud and clear.
27th needs to be looked at as an outcome of a single encounter. Looking at it as an outcome of a full blown war would be foolhardy and extremely unwise.
PAFs weakness lies in the poor state of the Pakistani exchequer not in Bani gala. If it had been Bilawal house or Jaati Umra you would have had no 27th at all.
Ganja Shareef would have had to adopt someone else's son to have another wedding party to invite that Bastard Modi.
A

Jf 17 is no worries for India...

Half Tejas Mk1a is more then enough to deal with..
Just need to more focus on Astra AA missile with range approx 150-200 km.

We have bigger challenges from China because they have sufficient number of advanced fighter planes..
First induct and operationalize the Tejas and elevate its status from being a Thaila queen then come back and talk. If the Astra development goes along the same lines as Tajas Mark1 then we will indeed have to think about dealing with it in--------------- 2080s.-! Now sit down in a quiet corner and behave!!!
A
 
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Ratio is incorrect including claim.

Yes, during the1965 war IAf lost more fighters then PAf but you need to consider also that PAF was having many fighter planes with the missiles but IAF was none.
Example - f 104 starfighter with sidewinder missiles
F 86 with AIM-9B/GAR-8 sidewinder missiles

So, I don't find any advantage of training etc.... Its all about technological advantage..

I don't count BS claim for better training etc..
And that sidewinders missiles were unreliable at the time of 65 war and we had few F-104 ( 12) which had least impact on the war results your Hunters and kgnats are technically superior to every aspect to our SABERS (minus F-104) etc etc
 
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So you pilots shot down, and one of them paraded in front of the whole world and then released at Wagah border with utter humiliation is not enough for you people, and you now want the Chinese to bang you!! Shame has no meaning for you guys! :omghaha:

It appears that they have forgotten the 1962 banging session.:lol::lol::lol:
 
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Jf 17 is no worries for India...

Half Tejas Mk1a is more then enough to deal with..
Just need to more focus on Astra AA missile with range approx 150-200 km.

We have bigger challenges from China because they have sufficient number of advanced fighter planes..
really, what makes you reach this conclusion? China takes IAF like kids flying kites.....after 27/2/19...

half Tejas means? o man.... lets be serious ...its not pogo channel.

If India goes for Mig 35....it will be out of consideration for PAF.
 
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