Pakistan’s PL-15 Missile Equipped JF-17 Block 3 is a Serious Game Changer - How India Can Respond to

[KaiserX]

soviet made junk aka R77 and S 300

R 77 failed on 27 feb 2019'
S 300 failed in armenia

I have made a few detailed posts on this forum about the vulnerability of Russian SAM systems.

Vis Via Gangedesh id be far more worried about their Israeli made SAMS. Because the Israelis have tested and learned from Russian SAM systems for decades, improving upon them significantly. Though shorter in range they are more Jam resistent, provide better quality coverage, and can act independantly in high EW/Cluttered environments.

 

[araz]

I have made a few detailed posts on this forum about the vulnerability of Russian SAM systems.

Vis Via Gangedesh id be far more worried about their Israeli made SAMS. Because the Israelis have tested and learned from Russian SAM systems for decades, improving upon them significantly. Though shorter in range they are more Jam resistent, provide better quality coverage, and can act independantly in high EW/Cluttered environments.

Any SAM system remains a threat. PAF needs to take all of the adversary's offensive defence hardware seriously and need to work against it. Problem remains/with our 2nd generation fighters more so than the JFT and the 16s and therefore the need to replace them as soon as practical. I think there iscrelative lul in tension across both borders giving us enough time to consolidate and strengthen our defences as well as offensive hardware. Currently given the process of integration the strategists might have not see much happening this side of the 20s. If our dams are completed on time and Pakistan progresses at a steady pace the danger may recede even further.
A

 

[KaiserX]

Any SAM system remains a threat. PAF needs to take all of the adversary's offensive defence hardware seriously and need to work against it. Problem remains/with our 2nd generation fighters more so than the JFT and the 16s and therefore the need to replace them as soon as practical. I think there iscrelative lul in tension across both borders giving us enough time to consolidate and strengthen our defences as well as offensive hardware. Currently given the process of integration the strategists might have not see much happening this side of the 20s. If our dams are completed on time and Pakistan progresses at a steady pace the danger may recede even further.
A

I doubt any fighter jets including the JF17s/F16s would not strike in the initial wave. That would be led by Missiles (ballistic/cruise) and UCAV drones. PAF fighters may also be used but they would be supported by jamming pods, EW aircrafts, and ground jamming.

SAM systems are heavily reliant on C4I and even older C3I systems. Taking out a major communication/command center can sow utter confusion. Many methods are available.

There are also tactics that Israeli Mirages were known to use, such as flying low to the ground. Russian SAM radars have a huge defeciency in detecting anything below 100 M.

 

[blueazure]

I have made a few detailed posts on this forum about the vulnerability of Russian SAM systems.

Vis Via Gangedesh id be far more worried about their Israeli made SAMS. Because the Israelis have tested and learned from Russian SAM systems for decades, improving upon them significantly. Though shorter in range they are more Jam resistent, provide better quality coverage, and can act independantly in high EW/Cluttered environments.

soviet made junk aka Tor m1, s 300 was taken out by measly israeli harpy drones in armenia .

and soviet propaganda mouthpiece VESTI TV kept shouting how Tor was supposed to be the ' point defence ' for elder brother s 300 .

 

[Deino]

Egypt received first five Su-35 last year and this year they received 12 Su-35. The article is correct.

Really? From all i know they did not receive them until recently.

 

[DJ_Viper]

soviet made junk aka Tor m1, s 300 was taken out by measly israeli harpy drones in armenia .

and soviet propaganda mouthpiece VESTI TV kept shouting how Tor was supposed to be the ' point defence ' for elder brother s 300 .

I agree with you. And no offense. I think S-300 is an anti-junk defense system. The Russian S-300 and S-400 use similar Radar wave transmission / receiving mechanism and conversion algorithms that are well known to a few nations. Let's be real, can anyone show me historical facts where S-300 was able to stop an inbound air campaign? Let's say in the past 30 years?

 

[Ali_Baba]

I agree with you. And no offense. I think S-300 is an anti-junk defense system. The Russian S-300 and S-400 use similar Radar wave transmission / receiving mechanism and conversion algorithms that are well known to a few nations. Let's be real, can anyone show me historical facts where S-300 was able to stop an inbound air campaign? Let's say in the past 30 years?

The combat record of all Russians systems in the last 30 years has been utterly awful - they make good platforms that are mechanically robust and reliable, or airframes that have brilliant kinetic/aerodynamic properties but they alway lack in electronic sophistication and in EW capabilities. When you look at "Checkmate", you realise after all this time - the Russian doctrine/way of thinking STILL seems to think that rear-ward pilot visibility is not important ... Look at what Tempest - a 6th gen platform thinks of pilot visibility in the era of 6th Gen - ie very important, and then think of what the Russians think.

Russian mindset on everything is "machoism" and that is reflected in everything they do that attempts to rely on brute force, rather than sophistication ...

 

[CriticalThought]

I agree with you. And no offense. I think S-300 is an anti-junk defense system. The Russian S-300 and S-400 use similar Radar wave transmission / receiving mechanism and conversion algorithms that are well known to a few nations. Let's be real, can anyone show me historical facts where S-300 was able to stop an inbound air campaign? Let's say in the past 30 years?

Just out of curiosity, what happened in Syria? Why did America pack up and leave? Oh and don't tell me what happened to the Syrians. Tell me about the Russians.

 

[DJ_Viper]

Just out of curiosity, what happened in Syria? Why did America pack up and leave? Oh and don't tell me what happened to the Syrians. Tell me about the Russians.

It seems very much like the rest of the cases, where you seem to know more about it than the US military. Why don't you tell me? I know what happened there and it's no different than what happened in Afg. But let's see what you have to say. Let's run the rumor mill
By the way, the S-300 wasn't why the US left Syria and nor did the Russians scare us "so much".

The combat record of all Russians systems in the last 30 years has been utterly awful - they make good platforms that are mechanically robust and reliable, or airframes that have brilliant kinetic/aerodynamic properties but they alway lack in electronic sophistication and in EW capabilities. When you look at "Checkmate", you realise after all this time - the Russian doctrine/way of thinking STILL seems to think that rear-ward pilot visibility is not important ... Look at what Tempest - a 6th gen platform thinks of pilot visibility in the era of 6th Gen - ie very important, and then think of what the Russians think.

Russian mindset on everything is "machoism" and that is reflected in everything they do that attempts to rely on brute force, rather than sophistication ...

Yes absolutely. The rear end visibility is poor as hell in their platforms. The Chinese have followed the same pattern and finally broke away from it from J-10. The JFT has this same issue too. And yes on the EW. Russians way to make electronics is still "mainframe" mindset vs. semiconductors / sensor fusion. Too rudimentary and complicated. The Chinese have actually learned from the Russians and they have focused precisely on this week point on EW and sensor fusion.

 

[CriticalThought]

It seems very much like the rest of the cases, where you seem to know more about it than the US military. Why don't you tell me? I know what happened there and it's no different than what happened in Afg. But let's see what you have to say. Let's run the rumor mill
By the way, the S-300 wasn't why the US left Syria and nor did the Russians scare us "so much".

The proof's in the pudding and you have no pudding to show. Don't ask me to invent a pudding for you.

 

[DJ_Viper]

The proof's in the pudding and you have no pudding to show. Don't ask me to invent a pudding for you.

The United States of America is not in any pudding making business. It's a global super power, thought I'd remind you . From your post, on the topic of a serious military confrontation, you've added "pudding" about 3 times in 1 sentence. It's very clear how much real knowledge is there and therefore, no need to continue to debate with you about "pudding". Thanks

 

[CriticalThought]

The United States of America is not in any pudding making business. It's a global super power, thought I'd remind you . From your post, on the topic of a serious military confrontation, you've added "pudding" about 3 times in 1 sentence. It's very clear how much real knowledge is there and therefore, no need to continue to debate with you about "pudding". Thanks

Thank you for informing us all that the President of United States Joe Biden has no real knowledge and therefore, should discontinue as the president. Please watch for yourself:

Joe Biden: ‘You Know that Old Expression, the Proof Is Going To Be in Eating the Pudding’

‘Let’s get away from the childishness of this and focus on the problem’

grabien.com

 

[blueazure]

I agree with you. And no offense. I think S-300 is an anti-junk defense system. The Russian S-300 and S-400 use similar Radar wave transmission / receiving mechanism and conversion algorithms that are well known to a few nations. Let's be real, can anyone show me historical facts where S-300 was able to stop an inbound air campaign? Let's say in the past 30 years?

Russophiles can always claim that export variants are 'downgraded -export -hand -me -downs" or " the operators wasnt well trained ', yet the fact the Tor systems were blown apart by harpy drones in nagarno is a huge question mark on performance of russian AD systems , ffs, drones are practice targets for AD operators !!

 

[DJ_Viper]

Thank you for informing us all that the President of United States Joe Biden has no real knowledge and therefore, should discontinue as the president. Please watch for yourself:

Joe Biden: ‘You Know that Old Expression, the Proof Is Going To Be in Eating the Pudding’

‘Let’s get away from the childishness of this and focus on the problem’

grabien.com

Where did you bring the President into my discussion? Assuming like the typical conspiracy theories on here? Go ahead and continue. Jo Biden really is a superman dressed to look old by the CIA and Mossad, on an agenda against Pakistan. So here, i started one conspiracy theory for you

 

[redtom]

Russophiles can always claim that export variants are 'downgraded -export -hand -me -downs" or " the operators wasnt well trained ', yet the fact the Tor systems were blown apart by harpy drones in nagarno is a huge question mark on performance of russian AD systems , ffs, drones are practice targets for AD operators !!

Soviet weapons were designed for world war， small and medium-sized countries could not copy the Soviet war system. Like the F-16 and the Mig-29. They are actually multi-role fighters and front-line fighters. In theory, the MIG-29 has more air combat capability, but only if you can achieve the take-off efficiency of the Soviet front air force. Hundreds of Mig-29s took off, followed by hundreds of attack aircraft, with thousands of tanks and armored vehicles on the ground. A handful of expensive American equipment could do little to stop the flood of Soviet troops.

But when the war is small, cheap Soviet weapons are no match for American-made ones.