Pakistan's P-3C vs. India's P-8I :: India, Pakistan and the Naval Balance

[MilSpec]

Bla bla bla. A fake superpower got deterred by international pressure? LOL
Kargil? India deterred? Pakistan went all the way in India, killed hundreds, caught India off guard, lost none of it's own territory, while India ran out of it's 155mm shells, got two of it's migs shot down and called it a victory. Nice. Only India can do it.

Yea, the threat of MAD keeps the likes of your in your senses.

And your F16 along with other great warriors stood mute, when Indian Mirages Blew up your brave soldiers.... Indeed you were the victors.... You didn't even have courage to accept the dead bodies of your fallen soldiers... May the future bring you many such victories indeed.

 

[sms]

And your F16 along with other great warriors stood mute, when Indian Mirages Blew up your brave soldiers.... Indeed you were the victors.... You didn't even have courage to accept the dead bodies of your fallen soldiers... May the future bring you many such victories indeed.

That's stupid argument Sir!

Our jets were no match to F16 in Pakistan's inventory. They did not turned our inferior jest into rubble not because of fear but due moral obligation to have even fight.

 

[FNFAL]

I see you were given a negative rating for your post. I have seen some pretty absurd negative ratings being given but this one clearly takes the cake. Absolutely bereft of even the semblance of logic.

Logic has no place where jingoism runs amok.
At the end of the day this is PDF , not some neutral forum. Hence we all have to accept its shortcomings,.

@WebMaster @Chak Bamu
@top gun this is what will happen when people while limited knowledge are given power to give negative rating,i am sure this guy cant even counter a single point in this post.

Corrected the name.

Chills mate ...as I said to @Bang Galore
I accept PDF with its shortcomings.To err is human. Specially when they err in the name of denying truth.

 

[sms]

I see you were given a negative rating for your post. I have seen some pretty absurd negative ratings being given but this one clearly takes the cake. Absolutely bereft of even the semblance of logic.

Logic has no place where jingoism runs amok.
At the end of the day this is PDF , not some neutral forum. Hence we all have to accept its shortcomings,.
Chills mate ...as I said to @Bang Galore
I accept PDF with its shortcomings.To err is human. Specially when they err in the name of denying truth.

Bro, if you buy bull you have to get know that it has horns and they can hurt.
Being on PDF it's expected! It's pity that it's coming from think Tank (supposed to be elite sane minded thinkers)!

 

[FNFAL]

Bro, if you buy bull you have to get know that it has horns and they can hurt.
Being on PDF it's expected! It's pity that it's coming from think Tank (supposed to be elite sane minded thinkers)!

Lolz, those horns dont hurt moi. I have a life beyond this forum

 

[MilSpec]

Naval aviation is an important part of the naval strategy of India and Pakistan. The Pakistan navy took the lead in the sub-continent in terms of introducing the Atlantique long-range maritime reconnaissance aircraft and Sea King helicopters fitted with anti-ship missiles.
Naval aviation is an important part of the naval strategy of India and Pakistan. The Pakistan navy took the lead in the sub-continent in terms of introducing the Atlantique long-range maritime reconnaissance aircraft and Sea King helicopters fitted with anti-ship missiles. It also acquired the US supplied P3C Orion with Harpoon missiles.

Although the Indian naval leadership had acknowledged the role of and the need for long-range maritime patrol (LRMP) aircraft as force multipliers, these platforms were late entrants in the Indian naval force structure. The current Indian LRMP inventory comprises of the Russian origin Tupolev-142 and Ilyushin-38, which have been upgraded; and a few Dornier aircraft. There have been attempts to fit missiles on some of these platforms with mixed results.

In 2009, India signed a contract worth US$ 3.9 billion with Boeing to supply 8 P-8 Multimission Maritime Aircraft (MMA). The first P-8I (I for the Indian variant) was handed over to the Indian navy in December 2012 and is currently undergoing trials and crew training. The balance seven aircraft will be delivered in 2013 (two) and 2015 (seven). India is the first international customer for the P-8, and the acquisition of the platform is a good example of the growing Indo-US naval cooperation.

The on-board equipment of the P-8I is similar to that of the P-8A of the US navy, but a number of equipment and sub-assemblies developed by Indian Defence Public Sector Undertaking (DPSU) and private companies have been fitted. The P-8I has a range of over 1200 nautical miles, is capable of in-flight refuelling, and can remain on task at a station for 4 hours. Its weapon suite includes the Harpoon Block II anti-ship missile, Mk-54 torpedoes, and depth charges.

The Harpoon missile is not new to the Indian sub-continent and therefore merits attention. In 2005, the US transferred nine P3C Orion aircraft and 60 Harpoon (40 air-launched and 20 ship launched) missiles to Pakistan. The total package - including a ‘close-in-weapon system’ was worth US$ 970 million. There were concerns among Indian naval planners, as the US had defended the sale of the hardware citing Pakistan’s legitimate self-defence capability.

In May 2011, two Pakistan navy P3C Orion aircraft were destroyed in a terrorist attack on PNS Mehran naval airbase in Karachi. During the 21st meeting of the US-Pakistan Defence Consultative Group (DCG) in December 2012, Pakistan had requested the US for replacements of the P3C Orion aircraft to make up for the losses and it was noted, “The provision of three or four more such aircraft would also help increase the counterterrorism capacity of Pakistani navy.”

The P-8I aircraft is designed for a number of roles and missions including surveillance, reconnaissance, detection, and prosecution of surface and subsurface targets at sea, imaging targets in the littorals, and search and rescue. The Arabian Sea is likely to be high on Indian navy’s deployment priorities where it must contend with the Pakistan navy.

The Pakistan navy has acquired Augusta 90 B submarines fitted with AIP system and there are plans to equip these platforms with Harpoon Block II missiles. Interestingly, the Pakistan naval leadership has noted that these submarines can be modified to deliver nuclear weapons. There have been speculations that Israel may have developed technological capability to miniaturise a nuclear warhead to be fitted on a Harpoon missile. Apparently, the US navy had spotted missiles being tested by an Israeli submarine in the Indian Ocean. It is quite unlikely that Pakistan has the technological knowhow to develop a miniaturised nuclear warhead of such sophistication unless it can obtain assistance from China, which has supported its nuclear weapons programme.

At another level, it is interesting that the Indian navy did not explore the possibility of equipping the P-8I with the Brahmos missile. There could have been at least two reasons: first, the Brahmos is a joint project of the Indian and Russian companies called Brahmos Aerospace, and there may be contractual limitations precluding its fitment on US origin platforms. Second, India has been attempting to diversify its military acquisitions to avoid overdependence on a single source; and in that context, the US naval hardware is a good alternative.

Finally, the P-8I is a significant addition to the Indian navy's armoury. It is a force multiplier and can significantly augment the maritime air surveillance, reconnaissance, and combat capabilities of the Indian navy. It would have to be cleverly deployed keeping in mind that the Pakistan navy is also equipped with Harpoon missiles and has a good knowledge of the missile’s technical parameters and exploitation doctrine. However, the P-8I is a technologically advanced platform as compared to the P3C Orion, and can offer technological edge over the Pakistan navy.
Defence News - Pakistan's P-3C vs. India's P-8I :: India, Pakistan and the Naval Balance
Unit cost

45,000,000–45,000,000 USD (2013)

201,400,000–275,700,000 USD
Engine type
Allison T56
CFM International CFM56
Wingspan
30 m
38 m
Length
36 m
39 m
Cruise speed
750 km/h
815 km/h
First flight
November 25, 1959
2009
Manufacturers
Lockheed Corporation
Lockheed Martin
Boeing Defense, Space & Security
Introduced
1962
2013

TU- 142 MK-E

IL38 SD

P8-I

Ordinance

TU 142
BAE- Sea Eagle
APR-3E torpedo
Advanced Light Torpedo Shyena
BrahMos II ALCM


P8I:
AGM-84L HARPOON Block II
Mark 54 MAKO Lightweight Torpedo
High Altitude Anti-Submarine Warfare Weapon system

IL38 Sea Dragon Suite:
BAE- Sea Eagle
APR-3E torpedo
Advanced Light Torpedo Shyena

One is time tested and the other is new but unproven system.

Capability needs to be tested or else it is useless.

Wow,
Do you know the process of testing and validation an aircraft has to go through to be selected in major Armed forces like USN or IN?

 

[GURU DUTT]

well the thread is about P3C Vs P8i right ?

well the thing is a single INs P8i can do the job of 3 P3Cs of PN and that too with more than twice the range + flies much much higher and faster and scans a huge area besides that we have two diffrent types of russian fixed wing and two roatarry winged russian platfroms for the same (ASW )


and if that was not enof we have 4 major air bases within range of entire coastal pakistan that have i squad of MKIs and a squad of navalised jaguars which can take care of all pakistani airforce and naval air wing even if yopu forget 3 suqads of fulkrums, MKIs & jags kept in northen airbases near indo pak border (we dont need to send owr CBG for pakistans naval blockade at all)

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Well its all nice and dandy but can the P8 outrun a interceptor these bulky planes are quite slow
we have what can detect the Subs and that is sufficient for our needs

 

[Donatello]

TU- 142 MK-E

View attachment 113381

IL38 SD

View attachment 113382

P8-I

Ordinance

TU 142
BAE- Sea Eagle
APR-3E torpedo
Advanced Light Torpedo Shyena
BrahMos II ALCM


P8I:
AGM-84L HARPOON Block II
Mark 54 MAKO Lightweight Torpedo
High Altitude Anti-Submarine Warfare Weapon system

IL38 Sea Dragon Suite:
BAE- Sea Eagle
APR-3E torpedo
Advanced Light Torpedo Shyena


View attachment 113383


Wow,
Do you know the process of testing and validation an aircraft has to go through to be selected in major Armed forces like USN or IN?

You should search up on the validation and shortcomings of the P8A system in the USN.
You'll find quite a few results.

 

[HAIDER]

Whatever you guys compared, if even small scale war break out, both countries will face arm embargo and all these planes will be parked somewhere......like aways...built your own and kill the nightmare of sanctions.

 

[GURU DUTT]

Whatever you guys compared, if even small scale war break out, both countries will face arm embargo and all these planes will be parked somewhere......like aways...built your own and kill the nightmare of sanctions.

well we also got sanctions imposed after may 1998 neuk explosions just like your nation but did you see those effects on owr economy like your nation faced

well bro thing is we indians have already worked on that clause over many decades when we had US arms embargo but your nation enjoyed patronage from US now since the tables have turned + your nation is in no capacity to "buy arms" as its too much adictited of war remitence/ coilation support fund - package of US milltarry aid for WTO thing is we indians buy on "hard cash" and trust me in international market its the diffrence between apples and ornges

Well its all nice and dandy but can the P8 outrun a interceptor these bulky planes are quite slow
we have what can detect the Subs and that is sufficient for our needs

what kind of interseptors are you talking about here sir kindli elborate

 

[HAIDER]

well we also got sanctions imposed after may 1998 neuk explosions just like your nation but did you see those effects on owr economy like your nation faced

well bro thing is we indians have already worked on that clause over many decades when we had US arms embargo but your nation enjoyed patronage from US now since the tables have turned + your nation is in no capacity to "buy arms" as its too much adictited of war remitence/ coilation support fund - package of US milltarry aid for WTO thing is we indians buy on "hard cash" and trust me in international market its the diffrence between apples and ornges


what kind of interseptors are you talking about here sir kindli elborate

Your are right Pakistan has no enough funds to buy arms, that's the reason Pakistan made so much progress in Nuclear technology as compared to India. But still Pakistan local production of arms and ammo is in good speed,FATA operation is a good example, where 50,000 soldiers and no para crew at work, since last many months.

 

[GURU DUTT]

Your are right Pakistan has no enough funds to buy arms, that's the reason Pakistan made so much progress in Nuclear technology as compared to India. But still Pakistan local production of arms and ammo is in good speed,FATA operation is a good example, where 50,000 soldiers and no para crew at work, since last many months.

well kid you dont have any idea about indian neuks whatsoever and not just you most of the members barring a handfull here trust me there is a reason why.. lets not talk about it

point is P8s of IN or for that matter any of the arms inida gets are bought thru payment in hard cash and every defence supplier wants to sell there merchandise to us and even agreeing on certain TOT so that we dont face a breakdown during santions

now USA cant offord to overlook India if it wants to keep its supremacy intact in asia so its not stupid enof to choose to put santions on us hell they are doing the opposite what many pakistanies dream of and thats becuse of owr hard work over the years

as for your opreations in fata or any other part of pakistan well thats your internal matter and dont worry when (god forbit) if there is any war kind of situation here trust me we indians have a surprise wepon and thats called "jugar" your nation saw its power in 1999 and trust me this time around its potency against your forces will be uncontrlable ... good luck

 

[Bang Galore]

Well its all nice and dandy but can the P8 outrun a interceptor these bulky planes are quite slow
we have what can detect the Subs and that is sufficient for our needs

Except that it is highly unlikely that you will be just allowed to find the subs...the difference in the strength of the respective navies & air forces means that the P3C Orions will run a very high risk to perform any operation. No likely to be very useful in a full blown conflict situation.

 

[ni8mare]

Well its all nice and dandy but can the P8 outrun a interceptor these bulky planes are quite slow
we have what can detect the Subs and that is sufficient for our needs

yeah turbo-prop are faster than turbofan

and our mig 29k also can intercept the slow moving p3......bring them down