Pakistan's Nuclear Assets wont be a secret anymore.

[JonAsad]

This conclusion is very surprising as well. Where is there popular Indian demand?
I dont see Indians burning our flags in the street or polls coming up daily on nuking us..

that would certainly have changed after 26/11- had Pakistan not achieved the nuclear deterrence-
there was a cry of nuking Pakistan in 98 aswell just after their nuclear tests-

 

[VCheng]

So it is the army's fault that it gets money from UN missions, and instead should redirect it towards health and education?

It is the army's fault for giving pensions?

It is the army's fault that the US does not give as much towards health and education as it does towards military?

Money from UN missions does not put an additional burden on national exchequer if that is what you are pointing out.

Once again, please let me remind you that I am not talking about any perceived fault or lack thereof.

I am simply saying that such a high rate of spending on defence is unsustainable. That is all.

 

[Norboo]

But every government have certain institutions which are given certain leeway to avoid leakage of national secrets...
so far Pakistan's nuclear assets have been successfully kept secret even from the mighty CIA...
There is a real risk now of these secrets no more remaining "Secrets"

Why keep it secret? Showing off your assets is the best deterrent!

 

[Jango]

Once again, please let me remind you that I am not talking about any perceived fault or lack thereof.

I am simply saying that such a high rate of spending on defence is unsustainable. That is all.

But you took an example from the article, an article which quoted UN missions, CSF and pensions, for proving your point that the defence budget is alot more than what was originally thought as.

UN fees don't put a burden on the state of Pakistan, as it is not coming from the government, but from UN, so no matter how much comes from UN, it is in no way affecting the budget.

Extra money comes from UN, not from Pakistani state.

 

[VCheng]

But you took an example from the article, an article which quoted UN missions, CSF and pensions, for proving your point that the defence budget is alot more than what was originally thought as.

UN fees don't put a burden on the state of Pakistan, as it is not coming from the government, but from UN, so no matter how much comes from UN, it is in no way affecting the budget.

Extra money comes from UN, not from Pakistani state.

Which is exactly why I estimated the amount as nearly 650 billion, not what that article is saying.

 

[Contrarian]

Is there any way to count what Pak Mil earns through its corporate and business arms - after paying taxes ofcourse! That also adds to their overall budget.

 

[Jango]

Is there any way to count what Pak Mil earns through its corporate and business arms - after paying taxes ofcourse! That also adds to their overall budget.

http://www.defence.pk/forums/pakistan-army/149283-pak-armed-forces-non-military-projects.html

Channels approximately 80% of profits from commercial ventures into social protection programmes

Go through this thread by Xeric, quite informative.

 

[Safriz]

^^^ I still remember Fauji Corn flakes..were my favorite...
They give money to retired military personnel...They have good cause

 

[SQ8]

that would certainly have changed after 26/11- had Pakistan not achieved the nuclear deterrence-
there was a cry of nuking Pakistan in 98 aswell just after their nuclear tests-

But the tests changed that.. there was NO demand after 26/11..
The demand for nuking us was made through the propoganda channels.. and less through public perception.
Where does that fit into today?
Both nations have the nukes, both have mechanisms for them..
But for all their worth they haven't actually "saved" us..
We are losing more and more to the conventional side of warfare..
The nukes have served less as a deterrent, and more as a curtain from behind which "misadventures" can be undertaken.

The whole idea of the nuclear deterrent in the cold war for eg.. was to let the Soviets know that if they crossed a boundary.. all hell would break loose.
Which is why it never went hot.. which is why NATO was able to relax about the fact that its lack of being able to match the soviets tank for tank as a preventive measure may be made up by the fact that they would be nuked if they crossed the line.

Can we say the same?

Our nuclear assets were best used as an ultimatum of not crossing the line...while we focused on building ourselves into a robust economy and united society behind it.
Instead they served as a curtain(a fake one as proved by the OBL raid) from which we let our snakes run rampant. That is the perception to the world.

The nukes are a deterrent to be pledged for use when declared conditions are met.
ours are behind some ambiguous strategy that does not even define when we intend to use it.

 

[SQ8]

^^^ I still remember Fauji Corn flakes..were my favorite...
They give money to retired military personnel...They have good cause

You really had bad taste
..sorry
.. but yes... when thats all you had and Frosties were too expensive.

 

[VCheng]

.........

Our nuclear assets were best used as an ultimatum of not crossing the line...while we focused on building ourselves into a robust economy and united society behind it.
Instead they served as a curtain(a fake one as proved by the OBL raid) from which we let our snakes run rampant. That is the perception to the world............

Pakistan has squandered the peace dividend that would have resulted from the proper use of nuclear deterrence as you describe.

Now, the perceptions of the world are slowly but surely turning against Pakistan. Pakistan would do well to change its policies for it cannot resist the inevitable consequences.

 

[Jango]

You really had bad taste
..sorry
.. but yes... when thats all you had and Frosties were too expensive.

Come on Oscar.

I liked Fauji Corn flakes for breakfasts. Never really liked the Frosties, although another Kellogg product, Coco Pops gradually replaced the Corn flakes!!!

 

[BATMAN]

Is there any way to count what Pak Mil earns through its corporate and business arms - after paying taxes ofcourse! That also adds to their overall budget.

May be only in Indian accounting education, earnings and spending of private corporations is accounted in defence budget!

 

[BATMAN]

Come on Oscar.

I liked Fauji Corn flakes for breakfasts. Never really liked the Frosties, although another Kellogg product, Coco Pops gradually replaced the Corn flakes!!!

Commenting on individual's taste about cornflakes is not the subject matter, rather an deliberate attempt of trolling and humiliating sincere efforts of Pakistani army.

Fauji corflakes can be discussed along with Hamza Shahbaz's poultry and property business but in separate thread.

 

[SQ8]

Come on Oscar.

I liked Fauji Corn flakes for breakfasts. Never really liked the Frosties, although another Kellogg product, Coco Pops gradually replaced the Corn flakes!!!

Ok, Fauji corn flakes were horrible.. they tasted like cardboard(and sadly even today after the much advertized revamp with swiss machines and what-not).
Frosties were ok.. but my favorite were ricicles.. which then disappeared from Pakistan..
But I saw them again in the UK a few days back..and nearly cried with joy.

On topic.

The nukes need to be audited..
but am I happy with the likes of Hussain Haqqani auditing them... ??
or am I happy with the audit remaining with a khaki?
THAT is the big question.