Pakistan's Loss: A Disaster or a Blessing

[Khan_21]

The old Pakistan was an artificial entity that had outlasted it's usefulness well before 1971.

The only tragic thing about the separation was that it was not peaceful.

While Pakistan is a tribal culture, BD is a unitary state where the state comes before anything else.

Current BD GDP/capita growth of 6% per annum when compared to 3% for Pakistan should tell everyone how much better off BD is without having Pakistan.

We are growing at 5.2 % not 3 % .

 

[Homo Sapiens]

pakistan gdp is about 4.7 in 2014 about more then 5 in 2017 our economy is still better then yours ,more people are living in prosperity in pakistan then BD ,we have less people living in poverty then in BD (https://www.adb.org/countries/pakistan/poverty https://www.adb.org/countries/bangladesh/poverty ) more people have cars in pakistan then bikes in BD, we have huge programs running to drag people out of poverty our Stock exchange is fastest growing stock in the world next trading route is going to be pakistan,
we have a huge army ,nuclear weapon,saved many countries (saudia arabia ,bosnia,jordan,) helped saudia arabia,syria,jordan,egypt in saudi israel war only country to shotdown russia's ,india's,israel jets we guard medina and mecca (if they are anything to you) we have defeated super power of that time soviet union and break it in to many countries
what have you done denying truth and believing in propaganda

I didn't open this thread for the point scoring against Pakistan.But to show that we have done well than the prediction.There is no need to compare Bangladesh and Pakistan.

 

[Jugger]

Instead of complete freedom Bangladesh could have continued being part of a lose union with Pakistan.
But Mukti Bahini killed just about anyone who have any link with Pakistan.
My grand dad bought land in then east Pakistan with his British army retirement money and settled there in 1957. He had four sons , two studied medical and two engineering. The two doctors moved back to west Pakistan after 1965 war and two engineers stayed in east. Grand dad was so we'll settled that didn't budge during 1971 turmoil. But the day after Bangladesh freedom. He had a knock on the door from Mukti Bahini group who shot him dead along with another son. And he had no problems with local Bengali people, in fact all the tenants living on his land were well off and treated well by him.
But it was a freedom movement drenched in pure hate. People were killed in their homes just because they were ethnic west Pakistani or had said something pro union or against sheikh mujib.
That level of hate wasn't controllable and even if our army had kept fighting they would have to kill half of Bengali population to keep the union intact.
West Pakistani were called insulting names such as Bijju , and other animal names since after Bhola cyclone who's blame was somehow thrown on west Pakistan and from there the problem started

This is what you get if hate is being propagated.
The cycle of hatred can only lead to death and misery. I think Bangladesh could have gained independence peacefully but arrogance of certain leaders lead to war.

 

[Max]

blessing ofcourse, no one missed bangladesh in Pakistan.

yes.. You have solved your problem of rice which even evil coloniel regime of west Pakistan would have done too if you allowed them 50 years more..

Anyways now leave this Pakistan obsession.. Pakistan and Bangladesh have no corelation.. We are far from each other. You better care about bharat, nepal and burmese.. Dont try to spread your wings toward Pakistan.. We already have 1.3 billion obsessed in east along with few million in north.. We dont want more obsessed poeple.

 

[CHI RULES]

The old Pakistan was an artificial entity that had outlasted it's usefulness well before 1971.

The only tragic thing about the separation was that it was not peaceful.

While Pakistan is a tribal culture, BD is a unitary state where the state comes before anything else.

Current BD GDP/capita growth of 6% per annum when compared to 3% for Pakistan should tell everyone how much better off BD is without having Pakistan.

Dear I humbly differ frm u as many consider the education level of BD high so u should know that GDP is not a reliable source to measure the standard of living and individuals well being.

The separation of two sides was failure of administrative structure. The sides from day one should have to be self sufficient in every aspect instead depending on each other despite having no land link.

 

[Homo Sapiens]

The separation of two sides was failure of administrative structure. The sides from day one should have to be self sufficient in every aspect instead depending on each other despite having no land link.

Wasn't that obvious even in pre-1971 period ? Pakistan is now a federal state although it is geographically contiguous.But in 1947-1971 period, Pakistan was a unitary state.Any demand by East Pakistani people for a federal structure was dismissed as a conspiracy to destroy Pakistan.They centralized all power to the central govt. for only one purpose,Exploiting East Pakistan as much as possible.East Pakistan was their milking cow.

 

[UKBengali]

We are growing at 5.2 % not 3 % .

GDP capita and not GDP growth.
BD is growing at twice the rate of Pakistan.

By 2030, BD will be much wealthier than Pakistan.

 

[Bilal9]

pakistan gdp is about 4.7 in 2014 about more then 5 in 2017 our economy is still better then yours ,more people are living in prosperity in pakistan then BD ,we have less people living in poverty then in BD (https://www.adb.org/countries/pakistan/poverty https://www.adb.org/countries/bangladesh/poverty ) more people have cars in pakistan then bikes in BD, we have huge programs running to drag people out of poverty our Stock exchange is fastest growing stock in the world next trading route is going to be pakistan,
we have a huge army ,nuclear weapon,saved many countries (saudia arabia ,bosnia,jordan,) helped saudia arabia,syria,jordan,egypt in saudi israel war only country to shotdown russia's ,india's,israel jets we guard medina and mecca (if they are anything to you) we have defeated super power of that time soviet union and break it in to many countries
what have you done denying truth and believing in propaganda

I did not want to get into measuring phalluses with a brotherly country like Pakistan - but the fact remains we can compare in a friendly way and see why some things are working in ours and not yours (and also vice versa). this helps improve both our countries and dispels false beliefs/misunderstandings between us.

Not everything working right in Bangladesh can be credited to Hasina, in fact very little can be. But we have benefited over the years by productive cooperation between Governmental and NGO sectors as well as PPP (Public Private Partnerships) for social progress and HDI improvements.

There is a lot that Pakistanis believe that is almost mythically negative about Bangladesh, so let's dispel those first, let's start with the most misunderstood stats.....

I've noticed a lot of Pakistanis (especially at PDF - going by the comments) believe Bangladesh is an overpopulated country. While population density may be higher here (because we also have very high concentration of arable land here vs. millions of acres of fallow land in Pakistan) agriculture is the primary reason for it. Bangladesh currently has 161M people vs. 189M people in Pakistan. Pakistan also has many more times the land area, however the point is - having the capability to feed your supposed (over)population, and in that Bangladesh is quite capable.

Also (per latest estimates) -

• Pakistan has a lot younger population on average, 23 years old vs. 24.7 years in Bangladesh, and
• Birthrate per thousand is higher in Pakistan at 29 births per 1,000 people vs. 19 births per 1,000 people in Bangladesh, and,
• Fertility Rate per woman in Pakistan is a lot higher at 3.6 child per woman in Pakistan vs. 2.1 child per woman in Bangladesh (rate implies no population increase).

At this rate Pakistan's population is going to see some exponential increase pretty soon. This needs urgent intervention before Pakistan's population explodes.

Another misinformation fed to Pakistani people is that 'Bangali aadmi' are all 'Bhukhey Nangey' kind.

I don't know what good it serves to spread this misinformation (which I see in Pakistani TV all the time) but it prevails for some odd reason (maybe self-congratulatory).

The truth is that stats on poverty are very similar between both countries, 'Population Below Poverty Line' for Pakistan is 29.5% while in Bangladesh it is 31.5%.

Same stats for education - Adult Literacy Rate in Bangladesh is slightly higher at 61.49% compared to Pakistan at 56.44%.

This being said - there are quite a few warning signs for Pakistan,

• GINI (Income Inequality) Index is 48.3 for Pakistan vs. 32.13 for Bangladesh
• Intentional Homicide rate per 1000 people is quite high for Pakistan at 7.8 vs. 2.8 in Bangladesh
  
• Infant Mortality Rate in Pakistan is quite high at 65.8 per 1,000 live births vs. 30.7 in Bangladesh
• Life Expectancy at Birth in Pakistan is also low at 66 years vs. 72 years in Bangladesh
• Our currency is way stronger at 80 to the dollar.

Pakistanis have to look at these differences and ask why.

I can personally tell you that each one of the 'improvements' Bangladesh has made in the factors above is due to one or more specific reasons which are well documented. If there is interest I will discuss further.

All data courtesy of,
http://country-facts.findthedata.com/compare/136-182/Bangladesh-vs-Pakistan

These were all gleaned from UN data.

 

[IceCold]

GDP capita and not GDP growth.
BD is growing at twice the rate of Pakistan.

By 2030, BD will be much wealthier than Pakistan.

Pakistan and BD live in different circumstances and hence their growth rate cannot be compared. For starters Pakistan is fighting an imposed proxy war for over a decade. We are host to millions of ungrateful and terrorist Afghans who while staying in Pakistan and enjoying our hospitality yet does not let got a single moment to hurt Pakistan. We have only now started to send them back. It will take considerable time and effort before all of them are sent back and burden is lifted from our economy.
BD faces no such issues at the moment. When you are fighting an insurgency backed by an unstable neighbour, growth rate is the last thing Pakistan is worried about.
Also while Hasina has turned BD into a client state of India no matter how many times Indian border security force kills Bengali people on the border, Pakistan on the other hand has no such intentions and to secure our eastern border, we have to put a considerable amount on defence. We have to deal with Indian terrorism and much more.
So while we are happy if BD progresses, yet its the opposite for BD as evident from Hasina outbursts every now and than. Pakistan has moved on and so should BD.

 

[breakingbad]

Pakistan and BD live in different circumstances and hence their growth rate cannot be compared. For starters Pakistan is fighting an imposed proxy war for over a decade. We are host to millions of ungrateful and terrorist Afghans who while staying in Pakistan and enjoying our hospitality yet does not let got a single moment to hurt Pakistan. We have only now started to send them back. It will take considerable time and effort before all of them are sent back and burden is lifted from our economy.
BD faces no such issues at the moment. When you are fighting an insurgency backed by an unstable neighbour, growth rate is the last thing Pakistan is worried about.
Also while Hasina has turned BD into a client state of India no matter how many times Indian border security force kills Bengali people on the border, Pakistan on the other hand has no such intentions and to secure our eastern border, we have to put a considerable amount on defence. We have to deal with Indian terrorism and much more.
So while we are happy if BD progresses, yet its the opposite for BD as evident from Hasina outbursts every now and than. Pakistan has moved on and so should BD.

Very vague and unconvincing.
I will only post regarding India ..
Dont remember the last time India and Bangladesh had a border incident.
Bangladesh is stable and able to concentrate on economics because its neighbour India is mature and friendly.
Also Bangladesh is mature in handling affairs with Myanmar without resorting to artillery attacks.
Pakistan is at odds with all its neighbours.
Time to introspect , whether the billions spent on arms will ever give any returns to ordinary Pakistanis.

 

[IceCold]

Very vague and unconvincing.

Let it be. The post wasnt addressed to you.

 

[Sully3]

Bangladesh is doing well because its taking responsibility for its own destiny rather than looking for new daddies to bail it out.
It has the same mentallity that India has that no one owes us anything .
Also their whole nationalism is not based on religion which is a non productive activity. Eg look at our west into the middle east , even with oil wealth they are busy killing each other .

UAE, SA, Qatar infact any GCC country over India any day of the week as a neutral

all those GCC countries have a better standard of living, income, social services then India will have in the next 200 years. And u can't really deny this when you know millions of indians sell their everything just to get a job as a cleaner in the middle east.

 

[SHAH820]

'Population Below Poverty Line' for Pakistan is 29.5% while in Bangladesh it is 31.5%.

Same stats for education - Adult Literacy Rate in Bangladesh is slightly higher at 61.49% compared to Pakistan at 56.44%.

This being said - there are quite a few warning signs for Pakistan,

• GINI (Income Inequality) Index is 48.3 for Pakistan vs. 32.13 for Bangladesh
• Intentional Homicide rate per 1000 people is quite high for Pakistan at 7.8 vs. 2.8 in Bangladesh
  
• Infant Mortality Rate in Pakistan is quite high at 65.8 per 1,000 live births vs. 30.7 in Bangladesh
• Life Expectancy at Birth in Pakistan is also low at 66 years vs. 72 years in Bangladesh
• Our currency is way stronger at 80 to the dollar.

Pakistanis have to look at these differences and ask why.

I can personally tell you that each one of the 'improvements' Bangladesh has made in the factors above is due to one or more specific reasons which are well documented. If there is interest I will discuss further.

All data courtesy of,
http://country-facts.findthedata.com/compare/136-182/Bangladesh-vs-Pakistan

These were all gleaned from UN data.

1) poverty rate of pakistan is at 12% compare to 31% of BD (the rate is up down in many sites cause they uses the data from census and there is no census since 19 years in pakistan )
https://www.adb.org/countries/bangladesh/poverty
https://www.adb.org/countries/pakistan/poverty
2)homocide rate in pakistan is higher only due terrorism
3)GINI (income inequality) for pakistan is 29% comapre to BD 31%
4)life expectancy for pakistan is 67 compare to BD 70
5)currency of BD is higher then pakistan but we have fought war on terror BD didn't and ours success rate is higher
then any other country in the world in WOT (if you are confuse what WOT have to do with currency please increase your knowledge about economy)

correct your facts please.

in the end only those survive who have struggled harder defeated its thread who have highest achievement and there is no comparison between BD and Pakistan you could be better then us in few thing but it doesn't change anything
and also read from this
http://www.columbia.edu/itc/mealac/pritchett/00litlinks/naim/txt_naim_prophecies_2011.pdf
read it from page 5 or 53 these were written about 900 years ago

 

[breakingbad]

UAE, SA, Qatar infact any GCC country over India any day of the week as a neutral

all those GCC countries have a better standard of living, income, social services then India will have in the next 200 years. And u can't really deny this when you know millions of indians sell their everything just to get a job as a cleaner in the middle east.

Agree with most of your post except the 200 years part. I think India has started focussing on most of its problems with the BJP govt except the most important ie population control.
We should try and bring our population down to 700 to 800 million , by further reducing the fertility rate of 2.3 to negative populn growth. Else no amount of effort is enough.

 

[Khan_21]

GDP capita and not GDP growth.
BD is growing at twice the rate of Pakistan.

By 2030, BD will be much wealthier than Pakistan.

If you are measuring wealth then according to credit swiss average adult in Pakistan has $4600 while BD is $ 2300 . PPP per capita is $5100 for Pakistan and $3800 for BD.

If you see most indexes in 2016 for factors like Infrastructure , Corruption , Poverty Pakistan is well above . You can compare several pictures between Islamabad , Lahore , Karachi and Dhaka and the difference is obvious .

I did not want to get into measuring phalluses with a brotherly country like Pakistan - but the fact remains we can compare in a friendly way and see why some things are working in ours and not yours (and also vice versa). this helps improve both our countries and dispels false beliefs/misunderstandings between us.

Not everything working right in Bangladesh can be credited to Hasina, in fact very little can be. But we have benefited over the years by productive cooperation between Governmental and NGO sectors as well as PPP (Public Private Patnerships) for social progress and HDI improvements.

There is a lot that Pakistanis believe that is almost mythicallynegative about Bangladesh, so let's dispel those first, let's start with the most misunderstood stats.....

I've noticed a lot of Pakistanis (especially at PDF - going by the comments) believe Bangladesh is an overpopulated country. While population density may be higher here (because we also have very high concentration of arable land here vs. millions of acres of fallow land in Pakistan) agriculture is the primary reason for it. Bangladesh currently has 161M people vs. 189M people in Pakistan. Pakistan also has many more times the land area, however the point is - having the capability to feed your supposed (over)population, and in that Bangladesh is quite capable.

Also (per latest estimates) -

• Pakistan has a lot younger population on average, 23 years old vs. 24.7 years in Bangladesh, and
• Birthrate per thousand is higher in Pakistan at 29 births per 1,000 people vs. 19 births per 1,000 people in Bangladesh, and,
• Fertility Rate per woman in Pakistan is a lot higher at 3.6 child per woman in Pakistan vs. 2.1 child per woman in Bangladesh (rate implies no population increase).

At this rate Pakistan's population is going to see some exponential increase pretty soon. This needs urgent intervention before Pakistan's population explodes.

Another misinformation fed to Pakistani people is that 'Bangali aadmi' are all 'Bhukhey Nangey' kind.

I don't know what good it serves to spread this misinformation (which I see in Pakistani TV all the time) but it prevails for some odd reason (maybe self-congratulatory).

The truth is that stats on poverty are very similar between both countries, 'Population Below Poverty Line' for Pakistan is 29.5% while in Bangladesh it is 31.5%.

Same stats for education - Adult Literacy Rate in Bangladesh is slightly higher at 61.49% compared to Pakistan at 56.44%.

This being said - there are quite a few warning signs for Pakistan,

• GINI (Income Inequality) Index is 48.3 for Pakistan vs. 32.13 for Bangladesh
• Intentional Homicide rate per 1000 people is quite high for Pakistan at 7.8 vs. 2.8 in Bangladesh
  
• Infant Mortality Rate in Pakistan is quite high at 65.8 per 1,000 live births vs. 30.7 in Bangladesh
• Life Expectancy at Birth in Pakistan is also low at 66 years vs. 72 years in Bangladesh
• Our currency is way stronger at 80 to the dollar.

Pakistanis have to look at these differences and ask why.

I can personally tell you that each one of the 'improvements' Bangladesh has made in the factors above is due to one or more specific reasons which are well documented. If there is interest I will discuss further.

All data courtesy of,
http://country-facts.findthedata.com/compare/136-182/Bangladesh-vs-Pakistan

These were all gleaned from UN data.

I can copy paste most indexes in 2016 like economic freedom , corruption , Infrastructure , Best Universities , Wealth and what not , Pakistan is better than BD in 80 % of those rankings .