This wasnt an answer to the post you quoted. My question was that every citizen of Pakistan receives almost 7-8 times the aid that a citizen of India receives. Are you trying to fog this fact out by quoting out of context links from your blog??
Pakistan's Karachi Stock Exchange to Perform Well in 2011
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This wasnt an answer to the post you quoted. My question was that every citizen of Pakistan receives almost 7-8 times the aid that a citizen of India receives. Are you trying to fog this fact out by quoting out of context links from your blog??
Rafi
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And indian governments own figures show 800 million people in india live on less than half a dollar a day.
Hey.. I googled per capita aid to india and pakistan and got directed to another thread on this forum.. Here are some closing posts from that. And the whole thread made very interesting read. An interesting observation is that Riaz argued the same points more than 1 year back, again jumping from 1 index to another, one economic measure to another in search of his favorite indulgence of India bashing.. Given his age, I am inclined to give him benefit of doubt of not pointing us to that thread and repeating everything again on grounds of failed memory. But something in my gut tells me other wise 
Just so that we all are on the same page
1. India is a developing country and uses aid
2. Pakistan is a developing country and uses aid
3. Aid to India has been decreasing year on year over last decade
4. Aid to Pakistan had been decreasing year on year till 2007 post which there has been a steep upsurge in the aid provided to Pakistan. Key contributors are severe liquidity crisis in the country magnified by economic crisis and WOT
5. Absolute Aid numbers are not a good indicator of the country's dependence on Aid. Case in Point, China received more Aid than India or Pakistan in 2008
(Economic aid - recipient 2010 country ranks, By Rank)
6 India's per Capita aid = $1.5. (Rank 160/173 in the list of highest per capita aid receivers)
7 Pakistan's per Capita aid = $9.7 (Rank 127/173 in the list of highest per capita aid receivers)
8 India receives 0.1% of its GDP or 1% of its Central govt annual expenditure as aid
9. Pakistan receives 1.0% of its GDP or 7% of its Fedral govt expenditure as aid
And on topic, here's another bunch.. Seems like Riaz goes on an annual spree of posting such threads
http://www.defence.pk/forums/india-defence/48631-india-borrow-spend-more-2010-2011-a.html
http://www.defence.pk/forums/strate...5433-india-pakistan-comparison-2010-a-17.html
http://www.defence.pk/forums/india-defence/48631-india-borrow-spend-more-2010-2011-a.html
http://www.defence.pk/forums/strate...5433-india-pakistan-comparison-2010-a-17.html
Gandhi G in da house
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Hey.. I googled per capita aid to india and pakistan and got directed to another thread on this forum.. Here are some closing posts from that. And the whole thread made very interesting read. An interesting observation is that Riaz argued the same points more than 1 year back, again jumping from 1 index to another, one economic measure to another in search of his favorite indulgence of India bashing.. Given his age, I am inclined to give him benefit of doubt of not pointing us to that thread and repeating everything again on grounds of failed memory. But something in my gut tells me other wise
Mr . HAQ got owned back then but keeps coming back shamelessly , such is his obsession and jealousy of India which he does not even attempt to hide.
Btw where has Karan.1970 gone ? He was a great member.
Gandhi G in da house
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It is a rational argument that you have just evaded . Nothing personal in that post . When you don't understand a concept as basic as per capita aid it needs to be pointed out .
Show me the data for the last 63 years to support your contention.
Indians were starving to death by the millions when the American aid rescued them by helping them with Green Revolution in the 1960s and 1970s. About 2.5 million of them, or 7000 a day, still starve to death each year, according to Bhookh.com
Hunger Facts | The Hunger Site for Facts: Bhookh.com
And even today, NGOs in India receive $16 billion a year in foreign aid, in addition to billions of dollars in official aid to India.
I know.. I just saw a ton of his posts on economy etc. Very knowledgeable.. No idea where he disappeared to. Is not even banned.. Any other senior knows where he went off to??
Mate, just read up on your own discussion with Karan.1970.. I just posted links..
That's just a cop out!
How come.. It lists out the links to the per capita aid data along with the posts where you agreed to the same. Also lists aid as a percentage of GDP and Govt expense for the 2 countries.. Pardon me, but the cop out seems to be at your end buddy..as they say, BUSTED.....
And more on the topic.. Here's another one of your castles in the air
KARACHI STOCK EXCHANGE CONCLUDED FINANCIAL YEAR TO JUNE 30 DOES NOT BRING SO MUCH FOR THE INVESTORS AND BROKERS,
Karachi Stock Exchange concluded financial year to June 30 does not bring so much for the investors and brokers,
11/07/07 THE healthy gain of 28 per cent in the index values at the Karachi Stock Exchange in the just concluded financial year to June 30 does not bring so much of joy for the investors and brokers, as they lament over the fall of volume to nine-year low. Average daily value in the cash and futures market stood at Rs4.4 billion in FY11, which represented a sharp plunge of 40 per cent over the previous year. Such insignificant business was last seen in FY02. But nine years ago, it was altogether a different world. The 9/11 events had created ripples in global capital markets and the size of Pakistani bourse at that time was only Rs358 billion, one-eight of the current capitalisation at Rs3 trillion. So does volume matter?
“Low volume is a serious matter”, says Nadeem Naqvi, Managing Director at the KSE. He said it defeated the purpose of providing growth capital for companies looking for liquidity. And the KSE MD listed a couple of reasons for the trivial turnover: Overall economic downturn had reduced savings of the middle income group that traditionally traded in shares; the overall weakness in the macro economic policy where government borrowings had crowded out the private sector, resulting in high interest rates. Finally, said, Mr Nadeem, the year witnessed huge transfer of money in the form of high commodity prices and government support to the undocumented rural sector that has displayed no interest in equity trading yet.
Liquidity is provided by day-traders”, said Arif Habib, former chairman KSE. And day traders, many thought, had turned their backs on the stock market following the crash of 2008. “Investors lost billions of rupees in that fateful year, but all of that passed off without a serious inquiry,”says Itrat Rizvi, a known market expert. He contended “ low volume tells us that the conviction of public to own stocks is lacking”. Says the KSE MD: “While many investors have genuine reasons to be disillusioned, the new management of the bourse is taking measures to settle old outstanding claims arising from the 2008 meltdown”. To restore investor confidence, the bourse is also planning to work with the National Clearing Company of Pakistan and the Central Depository Company, to devise measures by which investor interest is protected and broker control is minimised, said Mr Nadeem.
Khalid Mirza, who previously headed the SECP and latter the CCP, tells his students at the Lahore University of Management Sciences, where he is now a visiting professor, that the Pakistani capital market is highly undervalued compared to other markets in Asia. Mr. Arif Habib, also bullish on the Pakistan market, says that it holds enormous growth potential, which is scarcely reflected in the market performance during the year, in spite of strong corporate earnings growth. He marks oil and gas, fertilisers, large banks and textile and polyester sectors as having reaped bumper profits. According to Syed Atif Zafar, analyst at brokerage JS Global, the local bourse outperformed the regional markets by seven per cent during the outgoing year while underperforming the global commodities by four per cent.
The KSE MD endorsed investors’ complaint of lack of concern by the concerned quarters in easing the cumbersome calculation of Capital Gains tax, especially for individuals. Retail investors also thought it prudent to stay out of the market for fear of harassment by tax men. Many thought low turnover was to be blamed for low liquidity and lack of price discovery. At a time earlier this year, almost the entire market thought the introduction of the new leverage product — the Margin Trading System (MTS) — would be the saviour that would pull investors to the market in droves. That was not to be. It is thus that many still crave for the old flame, “badla”, the age-old leverage that came to be both loved and hated. “The market would take time to be familiar with the CFS”, says Mirza and he adds that he has no problem with the reformed shape of ‘badla’. “Devoid of the systemic risk, ‘badla’ was a perfectly proper leverage product for the market”. Another major concern for the market, to which all experts referred in various ways was its inability to attract new listings. “Mobilising cheaper funds for investment by industrial undertakings is a principal purpose of the stock market,” they say.
However, only three companies entered the capital market throughout the year, compared to an average of seven Initial Public Offerings in the last decade. The aggregate number of quoted companies at present stand at 639, which forms just one per cent of more than 60,000 registered companies. With hundreds of illiquid entities listed mainly on the textile sector, the market capitalisation at Rs3 trillion— three times the listed capital of Rs944 billion — provides a distorted picture of the market depth. “Such companies owned wholly by handful of sponsors have no business to remain listed,” says Khalid Mirza. He blames inadequacy of ‘Take-over Law” for the continuing trend.
During the year, Pakistan equity market remained on the overseas portfolio investors’ radar but their net buying spiralled downwards by 82 per cent to $312 million, from $567 million the year earlier. Offshore investors, who held equity worth $2.3billion (29.5 per cent of market’s free float) at the start of FY11, are now estimated to command shares of the value of $2.7billion (32.3 per cent of the KSE’s free float). And what about the return on equities? Mohammad Sohail, CEO at Topline Securities, pointed out that the stock price of consumer giant ‘Nestle Pakistan’ had climbed by 228 per cent during the year, which made it the second largest share in KSE-100 basket. The stock is owned by only 760 investors, but it has contributed as much as 26 per cent to the index gain.
Excluding Nestle the Index rose 21 per cent, said Sohail, who argues: “This should be considered as normal return which is in line with last 20-year average annual return of 20 per cent from Pakistan equities.” He said that in light of the fact that average one-year T-Bill generated 13.8 per cent in FY11, the return of 21 per cent from stocks was not very impressive given the market and company risks along with issues related to the filing of returns on new tax. The Topline CEO concluded: “All of that brings to fore the fact that KSE index movement is not necessarily reflective of market performance and those who trade watching the index movements alone, are likely to be misled and come to grief
KARACHI STOCK EXCHANGE CONCLUDED FINANCIAL YEAR TO JUNE 30 DOES NOT BRING SO MUCH FOR THE INVESTORS AND BROKERS,
Karachi Stock Exchange concluded financial year to June 30 does not bring so much for the investors and brokers,
11/07/07 THE healthy gain of 28 per cent in the index values at the Karachi Stock Exchange in the just concluded financial year to June 30 does not bring so much of joy for the investors and brokers, as they lament over the fall of volume to nine-year low. Average daily value in the cash and futures market stood at Rs4.4 billion in FY11, which represented a sharp plunge of 40 per cent over the previous year. Such insignificant business was last seen in FY02. But nine years ago, it was altogether a different world. The 9/11 events had created ripples in global capital markets and the size of Pakistani bourse at that time was only Rs358 billion, one-eight of the current capitalisation at Rs3 trillion. So does volume matter?
“Low volume is a serious matter”, says Nadeem Naqvi, Managing Director at the KSE. He said it defeated the purpose of providing growth capital for companies looking for liquidity. And the KSE MD listed a couple of reasons for the trivial turnover: Overall economic downturn had reduced savings of the middle income group that traditionally traded in shares; the overall weakness in the macro economic policy where government borrowings had crowded out the private sector, resulting in high interest rates. Finally, said, Mr Nadeem, the year witnessed huge transfer of money in the form of high commodity prices and government support to the undocumented rural sector that has displayed no interest in equity trading yet.
Liquidity is provided by day-traders”, said Arif Habib, former chairman KSE. And day traders, many thought, had turned their backs on the stock market following the crash of 2008. “Investors lost billions of rupees in that fateful year, but all of that passed off without a serious inquiry,”says Itrat Rizvi, a known market expert. He contended “ low volume tells us that the conviction of public to own stocks is lacking”. Says the KSE MD: “While many investors have genuine reasons to be disillusioned, the new management of the bourse is taking measures to settle old outstanding claims arising from the 2008 meltdown”. To restore investor confidence, the bourse is also planning to work with the National Clearing Company of Pakistan and the Central Depository Company, to devise measures by which investor interest is protected and broker control is minimised, said Mr Nadeem.
Khalid Mirza, who previously headed the SECP and latter the CCP, tells his students at the Lahore University of Management Sciences, where he is now a visiting professor, that the Pakistani capital market is highly undervalued compared to other markets in Asia. Mr. Arif Habib, also bullish on the Pakistan market, says that it holds enormous growth potential, which is scarcely reflected in the market performance during the year, in spite of strong corporate earnings growth. He marks oil and gas, fertilisers, large banks and textile and polyester sectors as having reaped bumper profits. According to Syed Atif Zafar, analyst at brokerage JS Global, the local bourse outperformed the regional markets by seven per cent during the outgoing year while underperforming the global commodities by four per cent.
The KSE MD endorsed investors’ complaint of lack of concern by the concerned quarters in easing the cumbersome calculation of Capital Gains tax, especially for individuals. Retail investors also thought it prudent to stay out of the market for fear of harassment by tax men. Many thought low turnover was to be blamed for low liquidity and lack of price discovery. At a time earlier this year, almost the entire market thought the introduction of the new leverage product — the Margin Trading System (MTS) — would be the saviour that would pull investors to the market in droves. That was not to be. It is thus that many still crave for the old flame, “badla”, the age-old leverage that came to be both loved and hated. “The market would take time to be familiar with the CFS”, says Mirza and he adds that he has no problem with the reformed shape of ‘badla’. “Devoid of the systemic risk, ‘badla’ was a perfectly proper leverage product for the market”. Another major concern for the market, to which all experts referred in various ways was its inability to attract new listings. “Mobilising cheaper funds for investment by industrial undertakings is a principal purpose of the stock market,” they say.
However, only three companies entered the capital market throughout the year, compared to an average of seven Initial Public Offerings in the last decade. The aggregate number of quoted companies at present stand at 639, which forms just one per cent of more than 60,000 registered companies. With hundreds of illiquid entities listed mainly on the textile sector, the market capitalisation at Rs3 trillion— three times the listed capital of Rs944 billion — provides a distorted picture of the market depth. “Such companies owned wholly by handful of sponsors have no business to remain listed,” says Khalid Mirza. He blames inadequacy of ‘Take-over Law” for the continuing trend.
During the year, Pakistan equity market remained on the overseas portfolio investors’ radar but their net buying spiralled downwards by 82 per cent to $312 million, from $567 million the year earlier. Offshore investors, who held equity worth $2.3billion (29.5 per cent of market’s free float) at the start of FY11, are now estimated to command shares of the value of $2.7billion (32.3 per cent of the KSE’s free float). And what about the return on equities? Mohammad Sohail, CEO at Topline Securities, pointed out that the stock price of consumer giant ‘Nestle Pakistan’ had climbed by 228 per cent during the year, which made it the second largest share in KSE-100 basket. The stock is owned by only 760 investors, but it has contributed as much as 26 per cent to the index gain.
Excluding Nestle the Index rose 21 per cent, said Sohail, who argues: “This should be considered as normal return which is in line with last 20-year average annual return of 20 per cent from Pakistan equities.” He said that in light of the fact that average one-year T-Bill generated 13.8 per cent in FY11, the return of 21 per cent from stocks was not very impressive given the market and company risks along with issues related to the filing of returns on new tax. The Topline CEO concluded: “All of that brings to fore the fact that KSE index movement is not necessarily reflective of market performance and those who trade watching the index movements alone, are likely to be misled and come to grief
Here's another gem about the so loved Karachi Stock Exchange Index
KSE risks losing coveted liquidity status | Pakistan Today | Latest news, Breaking news, Pakistan News, World news, business, sport and multimedia
KARACHI - It is feared that the once vibrant Karachi Stock Exchange (KSE) is set to lose its title of most liquid equity market of the region if the current trend of thin volumes continues to persist. According to analysts, the Karachi bourse that once traded an average of Rs 40 billion a day with Rs 28 billion in cash and Rs 12 billion in single stock futures is verging on losing out on its once famous slogan of most liquid market of Asia.
“Rs 40 billion a day was fairly average four years ago (during 2005 and 2008). This period also saw an all-time high volume of Rs 216 billion ($3.7 billion) a day on March 9, 2005,” viewed Topline Securities Chief Executive Officer Mohammed Sohail. And the ground reality, the analyst said, was that if recent trend of volumes continued it would take six months for the brokers, exchanges, investors and other market participants to see those volumes to surpass the record volume seen on one day on March 9.
“That is the revenue earned by the exchanges, brokers, government etc. on that particular day is now equal to revenue earned in six months,” he added. The Topline executive said the volume at KSE currently is as low as the level exhibited during a three and a half month price floor in 2008. Though price discovery was an issue at the end of 2008 when regulators placed an infamous market floor, volumes in the off market were close to what it is now.
“That shows the depressing state through which local bourses are passing these days,” he noted. During the last three days, the average traded value at KSE was Rs 1.7 billion (in cash, off and derivatives market) compared to average volume of approximately Rs 1.0 billion at the time when the market was practically closed down in September-November 2008 period.
In FY11, which is going to end on June 30, average volumes at KSE were Rs 4.0 billion in cash and Rs 0.5 billion in the futures market, down 43 percent from the last fiscal year. The analyst attributes this lackluster activity to the imposition of Capital Gains Tax (CGT) in July 2011 after a gap of more than three decades. “Besides the fear of documentation, the complex computation method to arrive at the actual gain or loss is the major reason that has forced individual investors to leave the market,” he stressed.
This, he said, could be verified from the fact that individual share in total trading had been dragged down to an average of 44 percent from around 54 percent before the imposition of the tax. “As a consequence of record low volumes, many companies are deferring their plan to raise capital from the equity market evident by only one IPO in FY11 at the local bourse,” he underscored. Sohail also indicated his belief that the turnover velocity of the country was one of the lowest in Asia.
He stressed that in terms of turnover velocity, the volume divided by market cap that happens to be a better and relative measure of market depth, the country’s turnover velocity last month was 22 percent compared to an average of Asian markets of more than 100 percent.
“Pakistan’s turnover velocity in 2003 was a record 490 percent compared to Asian average of 80 percent making it one of the most actively traded markets at that time,” the Topline CEO said.
The analyst expressed fear that the existing depressed level of activity at the country’s capital market posed serious implications for capital formation and the government’s long-term objective to raise funds through the capital markets.
KSE risks losing coveted liquidity status | Pakistan Today | Latest news, Breaking news, Pakistan News, World news, business, sport and multimedia
KARACHI - It is feared that the once vibrant Karachi Stock Exchange (KSE) is set to lose its title of most liquid equity market of the region if the current trend of thin volumes continues to persist. According to analysts, the Karachi bourse that once traded an average of Rs 40 billion a day with Rs 28 billion in cash and Rs 12 billion in single stock futures is verging on losing out on its once famous slogan of most liquid market of Asia.
“Rs 40 billion a day was fairly average four years ago (during 2005 and 2008). This period also saw an all-time high volume of Rs 216 billion ($3.7 billion) a day on March 9, 2005,” viewed Topline Securities Chief Executive Officer Mohammed Sohail. And the ground reality, the analyst said, was that if recent trend of volumes continued it would take six months for the brokers, exchanges, investors and other market participants to see those volumes to surpass the record volume seen on one day on March 9.
“That is the revenue earned by the exchanges, brokers, government etc. on that particular day is now equal to revenue earned in six months,” he added. The Topline executive said the volume at KSE currently is as low as the level exhibited during a three and a half month price floor in 2008. Though price discovery was an issue at the end of 2008 when regulators placed an infamous market floor, volumes in the off market were close to what it is now.
“That shows the depressing state through which local bourses are passing these days,” he noted. During the last three days, the average traded value at KSE was Rs 1.7 billion (in cash, off and derivatives market) compared to average volume of approximately Rs 1.0 billion at the time when the market was practically closed down in September-November 2008 period.
In FY11, which is going to end on June 30, average volumes at KSE were Rs 4.0 billion in cash and Rs 0.5 billion in the futures market, down 43 percent from the last fiscal year. The analyst attributes this lackluster activity to the imposition of Capital Gains Tax (CGT) in July 2011 after a gap of more than three decades. “Besides the fear of documentation, the complex computation method to arrive at the actual gain or loss is the major reason that has forced individual investors to leave the market,” he stressed.
This, he said, could be verified from the fact that individual share in total trading had been dragged down to an average of 44 percent from around 54 percent before the imposition of the tax. “As a consequence of record low volumes, many companies are deferring their plan to raise capital from the equity market evident by only one IPO in FY11 at the local bourse,” he underscored. Sohail also indicated his belief that the turnover velocity of the country was one of the lowest in Asia.
He stressed that in terms of turnover velocity, the volume divided by market cap that happens to be a better and relative measure of market depth, the country’s turnover velocity last month was 22 percent compared to an average of Asian markets of more than 100 percent.
“Pakistan’s turnover velocity in 2003 was a record 490 percent compared to Asian average of 80 percent making it one of the most actively traded markets at that time,” the Topline CEO said.
The analyst expressed fear that the existing depressed level of activity at the country’s capital market posed serious implications for capital formation and the government’s long-term objective to raise funds through the capital markets.
stock price of consumer giant ‘Nestle Pakistan’ had climbed by 228 per cent during the year, which made it the second largest share in KSE-100 basket. The stock is owned by only 760 investors, but it has contributed as much as 26 per cent to the index gain.
thats scary.... And also 2/3 of listed companies are military owned. No accountability.
Gandhi G in da house
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You are escaping all the facts about per capita aid being given to you . Your denial may help you sleep better but others have eyes and brains to see and think .
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