"Pakistan's industry joins international competition for new NATO-standard rifle"

[blain2]

World over near all Nato forces use 5.56 mm weapons so it will be wise for PAF to also change over budget permitting for allowing inter-operability between all its own units and the NATO forces in say Afghanistan.

They use 5.56mm but not without qualms. There has been a lot of debate about the benefits of switching over to 5.56mm from 7.62. I think the PA may use a mix of the two calibers for sometime.

 

[JK!]

The chinese are currently using weapons of 5.8mm calibre.

Is there any advantage of this calibre for rounds?

 

[blain2]

The chinese are currently using weapons of 5.8mm calibre.

Is there any advantage of this calibre for rounds?

Has more stopping power than 5.56. I think it just depends on situation and use. Some will swear by one cal of ammunition or the other.

 

[Quwa]

Wait for IDEAS 2008...I have a suspicion that the PK-8 may have changed a bit. POF signed an MoU with MKE (Turkey), and the latter had developed a variant of HK33 called T-50. The T-50 appeared to have been made of carbon-fibre and borrows its scope-design from G36E...it has been 2 years...PK-8 might have evolved into this:

http://m.yollayap.com/b11/1017407998.jpg

I imagine we'll hear more in IDEAS 2008...I imagine Steyr and Colt will try to capitalize on their respective pilot-AUG & M4 sales to Pakistan...FN Herstal apparently sold F2000 to PAF SSW as well.

I heard stuff about PA studying a possible joint-working-group with POF & a Western supplier to develop a Pakistan specific rifle. Apparently concerns have been raised about future dual rifle use like the present Type-56 & G3...standardization is a major issue. Hence we may see the PA use a rifle-type that would have both 5.56mm & 7.62mm variants in production in multiple formats such as light machine-gun, carbine, sniper, standard, etc.

From a source that is relatively close to the Pakistan-specific defence industry...I heard the HK G36E is on top for this requirement. However PA apparently wants to set-up a JWG with HK and POF to produce a Pakistan-centric rifle for very long-term & consistent use.

For a better idea of what I mean...the Turkish Army apparently raised a JWG with MKE and HK on the Mehmetcik-1. The Mehmetcik-1 is based off the HK-416 & 417, but HK transfered the technology and the end result is a rifle specifically for the Turkish Army. Essentially a project similar to the U.S. XM8 attempt.

Do remember that this would be a costly venture...but I heard the thinking is along the lines of 'very long-term usage'. Remember the threat-perception is changing, the receiving end I suspect will be very large - i.e. MoD, MoI & Civil-Enforcement Depts - and standardization will be key.

 

[echo 1]

Why doesn;t the Pakistan Army develop a weapon that can shoot multiple kinds of ammunition like the US. They have been working on this kind of concept for a while so why don;t we do something like it too? This would give soliders the ability to chose what is nessary for a specific situation. 7.65 for when enemy is closing in and 5.56 for longer ranges or some kind of mix of that sort.

 

[QADRI]

can anyone tell me that either this PK-8 is purely Pakistani Gun or this is a copy of some other or whether this gun is bought from other country just like g-3, m16, m5.

 

[xishan786]

HMmm POF is basically a collection of several semi independent factories and is primary weapon manufacturer for Pak Army.
Weapons Factory which manufacture all small arms smgpk, mp5 , G3 and their several varients is based on german manufacturer H&K design principals, hence
1. H&K would be ideal choice as it would seam comapritivly easly with present infrastructure.
2. Yes PK-8 has influnce of G3(which pof got by TOT) and other small arms pof manufacturer.


3.POF from last many years is loking for sme new weapons- though many people would quote many reason but there is another reason as well , over the years POF had manufactured enogh small arms that are enogh for pof ,atleats for next 20 years, POF dont need G3s,mp5s and smgpks, Ordnance depos are already full with them. So from commercial and survival point of view also pof needs some new product which is drastically improved and better then the current range.

4. from last 8 to 9 years pof is working on differnt projects in this regards pk-7 , pk-8 , are steps in this regard. XM 29 was one that pof specifically worked on and their people were very much keen on the project back in 2005 i dont know what is their status now.

5. Basically POF is in process of radically changing its product line, new small weapons like pk-8 are part of it you wille seeing lot of new products.

6. and as far as caliber is concerned SAA is alraedy manufacturing both nato and non nato standards in SAA so basically it is upto Pak Army what they deem fit and by the way POF is part and parcel of Pak Army so there is no need for convincing its just matter of what is better.

Regards

 

[QADRI]

so xishan786 do you have any picture of XM-29....i think XM is Amercian series...they manufactured XM-8...

 

[Majnun]

I think G3 is still best choice, though, as posted above, it would be ideal if we could have a gun that can shoot 7.62 and 5.56.

 

[SajidShah]

Brother Chinese 5.8mm Rifle round is much more superior then 5.56mm & 7.62mm. Its accuracy & lethality is superb. According to Western sources 5.8mm accuracy at 600m is very accurate. Chinese use this caliber in Rifles, LMGs, Sniper Rifle.

 

[Super Falcon]

it is old g 3 model i hope pak army get a rifle which our airforce ssg operates

 

[Super Falcon]

G 3 copy i can only can say that

 

[xishan786]

so xishan786 do you have any picture of XM-29....i think XM is Amercian series...they manufactured XM-8...

Collabration or TOT jiont manufactering that sort of thing brother , POF workd on acquistion.

The XM29 OICW (Objective Individual Combat Weapon) was the name for a series of prototypes of a new type of battle rifle that fired 20 mm HE airbursting projectiles. The prototypes were developed as part of the Objective Individual Combat Weapon program in the 1990s. The term SABR (Selectable Assault Battle Rifle) was also used at certain points, but is less common.

NO XM8 is not American its a german product as H&K which was the lead designer and manugacturer corrct me if I am wrong back in 2005 XM8 project was pausd and later it was cancelled.

I think both are dead rifles now unless they have soem serious buyers


XM 29


XM8







My point was that apart from G3 n company getting old amother compelleing reason for POF is that they dont need to manufacutre current range of small arms for army any more, they have already more then enough, Obviously export is something else.

 

[Nutuk]

If the Pakistani P8 is a HK33 rip off or a T-50 (re-designed HK 33) rip off like Marksien suspects than folks don't chose it! It's a lousy weapon.

Turkey made that error 10 years ago by having our MKEK produce HK-33 under license, the product was below expectations. MKEK tried re-designs on it in order to make it better and resulted with prototypes like the T-50 riffle, still below expectations.

Pakistan should avoid taking the same route to end up and experience the same as Turkey.

Turkey in the end dropped HK-33 after manufacturing thousands of it, a waste of money. The new riffle that is now produced by MKEK is the Mehmetcik-1 (in fact a HK 416 clone). MKEK was for once clever enough to produce a mixed reverse engineered gun that has a lot more potential than the G3 and HK 33. If you take a gun take something like the HK416 or Mehmetcik-1, which are top of the cake products.

Mehmetcik-1:

 

[blain2]

I see the similarities of the new Turkish rifle with Colt M-4 which itself is a weapon that is liked by both the Pakistani and Turkish Special Forces. I think PK-8 is still under evaluation. Nothing firm has come of it. Like the G-3 before, the PK-8 was delivered to the SSG for evaluation. I am not sure how much further the PK-8 situation has developed.

I would be lying if I said I know the background of PK-8 and whether it has any relation to HK-33, however there are some similarities but I am not convinced if the weapon is indeed a licensed production of HK-33:


PK-7 is the 5.7mm SMG in the foreground and PK-8 in the hands of the former Pakistani PM.