Pakistan’s identity crisis!

[Porus]

Urdu is just associated with muslims because hindus cannot speak it, show me 1 hindu who speak urdu and i will believe you.

Only an Indian here can tell you whether the Muslims and Hindus of Delhi or Luknow speak two different languages. Language is more than a couple of hundred Arabic / Persian loan words. What about the syntax, verbs, grammar, the whole vocabulary aside from few Arabic / Persian loan words, proverbs used in daily conversation? Even after 67 years of immigration it is the Ganges which is flowing backwards in Karachi, and now even in Punjab and other areas of Pakistan where Urdu has replaced the native languages. Forget Punjabis, even "ahle zuban" pronounce many Persian / Arabic words wrongly and the usage of these words is anyway very limited in their daily conversation. You don't get to hear that Urdu laden with Arabic / Persian words on the streets of Karachi that you hear in PTV khabarnama or Pakistani soaps. Non-Arabic speaking Muslims can generally pronounce hard Arabic consonants because they learn to read Quran in the early years of their lives.

 

[suresh1773]

seem like i am debating with 12 years old. Genius we know Islam came from Arab world just like we know hinduism is bastardization of central asian religion. While Islam is same everywhere. Bihari minister statement was 100% historically correct unlike ancient hindus intergalactic planes.

whether it is Turks,iranians,Taliban,Boko Haram & ISIS,Islam is the same everywhere,Isee. Different sects of Islam have different style of praying

But you will notice no matter from where muslims will always pronounce urdu words correctly unlike hindus. You guys cannot pronounce kh, ph etc correctly even if your life depend on it. At best elite class hindus can differentiate between z and j.Urdu is just associated with muslims because hindus cannot speak it, show me 1 hindu who speak urdu and i will believe you.

On another thread I read even Md Ali Jinnah,the founder of Pakistan could not read,write Urdu but he was fluent in Gujarathi

 

[Razia Sultana]

@save_ghenda
Urdu is just associated with muslims because hindus cannot speak it, show me 1 hindu who speak urdu and i will believe you.[/QUOTE]

Have you heard of Firaq Gorakhpuri? His actual name was Raghupati Sahay. Dhanpat Rai who is famous as Munshi Premchand in hindi literature, wrote in Urdu by name Nawab Rai. I am attaching below a link that will give you more than 100 names of urdu poets who are non-muslims and are mainly hindus. Some urdu news anchors on indian tv have hindu sounding names like Devesh.
Non-Muslim Urdu poets and writers | The World of Urdu Poetry, Literature & News

 

[Kabira]

Only an Indian here can tell you whether the Muslims and Hindus of Delhi or Luknow speak two different languages. Language is more than a couple of hundred Arabic / Persian loan words. What about the syntax, verbs, grammar, the whole vocabulary aside from few Arabic / Persian loan words, proverbs used in daily conversation? Even after 67 years of immigration it is the Ganges which is flowing backwards in Karachi, and now even in Punjab and other areas of Pakistan where Urdu has replaced the native languages. Forget Punjabis, even "ahle zuban" pronounce many Persian / Arabic words wrongly and the usage of these words is anyway very limited in their daily conversation. You don't get to hear that Urdu laden with Arabic / Persian words on the streets of Karachi that you hear in PTV khabarnama or Pakistani soaps. Non-Arabic speaking Muslims can generally pronounce hard Arabic consonants because they learn to read Quran in the early years of their lives.

Seem like you have lived all your life in foreign country and have no idea about what i am talking about. As expected you couldn't show 1 hindu who spoke urdu. Karaachi people speak pure urdu, while now days muslims in lucknow have been influenced by hindi urdu. Which basically sound like hindi because they no longer can pronounce words properly, its easy to know when elite class Indians are trying their best to speak urdu.

For exemple they cannot pronounce kh, k, ph, f, etc sounds properly if they are native hindi speaker. "Khan" is pronounced like haan and not kaan like Indians do. Just one exemple...

Watch this video of rural punjab where people speak majhi dialect of punjabi,

Same thing apply when it comes to when Indian punjabis pronounce arabic/persian words which make major parts of Indian hindi and even punjabi despite efforts to eliminate arabic/persian words.

@save_ghenda

Urdu is just associated with muslims because hindus cannot speak it, show me 1 hindu who speak urdu and i will believe you.

Have you heard of Firaq Gorakhpuri? His actual name was Raghupati Sahay. Dhanpat Rai who is famous as Munshi Premchand in hindi literature, wrote in Urdu by name Nawab Rai. I am attaching below a link that will give you more than 100 names of urdu poets who are non-muslims and are mainly hindus. Some urdu news anchors on indian tv have hindu sounding names like Devesh.
Non-Muslim Urdu poets and writers | The World of Urdu Poetry, Literature & News[/QUOTE]

Any video of hindu speaking urdu?

whether it is Turks,iranians,Taliban,Boko Haram & ISIS,Islam is the same everywhere,Isee. Different sects of Islam have different style of praying


On another thread I read even Md Ali Jinnah,the founder of Pakistan could not read,write Urdu but he was fluent in Gujarathi

Yes Islam is same everywhere. Jinnah didn't need to speak urdu, he needed English at that time.

 

[suresh1773]

Yes Islam is same everywhere. Jinnah didn't need to speak urdu, he needed English at that time.

If Islam is the same everywhere what about Deobandi & Barelvi
I am using simple English words. What,Jinnah didn't need to speak urdu bcoz he needed English at that time.
what about gujarathi which he was fluent,U r writing as if Jinnah spoke in Gujarathi against the British.
Poor logic

 

[Kabira]

If Islam is the same everywhere what about Deobandi & Barelvi
I am using simple English words. What,Jinnah didn't need to speak urdu bcoz he needed English at that time.
what about gujarathi which he was fluent,U r writing as if Jinnah spoke in Gujarathi against the British.
Poor logic

Jinnah barely spoke Gujarati, very little in fact.

 

[Porus]

For exemple they cannot pronounce kh, k, ph, f, etc sounds properly if they are native hindi speaker. "Khan" is pronounced like haan and not kaan like Indians do. Just one exemple...

As I have told you earlier a language is more than the correct pronunciation of some borrowed words or consonants like ghen, khey, qaaf. I spent a good part of my life in Karachi and I know what kind of language is spoken there.

 

[Kabira]

As I have told you earlier a language is more than the correct pronunciation of some borrowed words or consonants like ghen, khey, qaaf. I spent a good part of my life in Karachi and I know what kind of language is spoken there.

Then you most know that Karachi people speak perfect urdu right? 70% of hindi words are arabic/persian but they can't pronounce them properly.

 

[Marshmallow]

The writer has a master’s degree in conflict-resolution from the Monterey Institute of International Studies in California and blogs at Coffee Shop Diplomat | Blog, pics & articles

More than a month has gone by since the attack on APS, Peshawar. Military courts have been established and schools have been made responsible for their own security. The country is still limping back from one crisis and is now forced to deal with a self-imposed fuel shortage. Are these events written in the stars or does the fault lie within ourselves? We are racked with violence and extremism while our civil society is inept and known to celebrate suicidal maniacs with vigour and fanfare. Hangings of convicted murderers bring out a vote for sympathy in their favour. Volunteers administering polio shots are killed and anyone with a different ideology is destroyed.

The land of the pure wishes to represent all Muslims of the world, where ever they maybe, by rioting for their causes and protesting in their support. Buildings are burnt and facilities are demolished because of the emotional tantrum we suffer on account of real or perceived insults to our belief. Is Pakistan only made up of emotional mobs and nothing more, where might is always right and each citizen is left to their own struggle for survival of the fittest? Why then are the expectations of the population so lofty? There is talk of democracy and a demand for progress. Herein lies the contradiction and where we need to find the answer to how Pakistan can operate as a nation. Today’s society appears to neither have the intent nor capacity to right itself but is indecisively wavering about in search of answers. The ‘Pakistani Nation’ as a whole is at fault. Pakistanis act as their own worst enemy and are on a circular path that leads nowhere. This cannot be righted by anyone but ourselves and it must start by de-radicalising the populace.

Once the radicalised element is under control, society can relearn to live for their belief rather than to just die for it. People will once again be free to discuss in the open whether Pakistan is an ideological state or not. If, according to outspoken opinion, the most important pillar of statehood is ideology, then it should certainly not be left in the hands of the fanatical mullah. This extreme aberration holds domestic and foreign policy hostage to his own interpretation of ideology, causing violent protests if his narrow views and demands are not strictly adhered to.

A moderate form of religion-based governance may not be feasible, when one person’s interpretation of religion does not recognise another person as a Muslim. If ideology itself is responsible for dividing the nation into small little hate groups, then surely one needs to consider rational statehood in lieu of the theological form. Was Pakistan created as a result of repression or was it created in order for Muslims to have a way to repress others? Was Pakistan always an Islamic Republic? If there is an alternative identity which doesn’t violate the number one priority, the well-being of its populace, then it must be sought. Regardless of whether Pakistan turns into a more inclusive system or not, madrassas must be reined in and the role of religion in politics has to be reviewed. The authority of the maulvi also requires clear definition so as to avoid any delusions. The state should be returned to the citizens, to live in an air of freedom without fear and fraud, without prejudice and malice towards anyone.

Published in The Express Tribune, January 26th, 2015.

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why the heck Norwegian tags me in every post....so many tags by you!

 

[sandesh kumar]

pakistani are proud arab descendents. they speak arebic and they even look more arab than actual arabs. so where is identity crisis??

 

[Hiptullha]

i understand the essence of your argument, but you are inflating the aspects of that argument. there never was this utopia muslim sufi renaissance you are describing. it was a poverty-stricken lot that got to run its affairs after british ended occuptation, and that's about it.

Wasn't saying that there was any Sufi renaissance but that the ideology put forward was driven by progressives and Sufis.

So it was Zia, that bolstered clerical influence in Pakistani civil society by appointing some 10,000 clerics from extremist and anti-Qadiani party Jamaat-e-Islami. It was he who introduced Gun-culture by opening borders of Pakistan, letting millions of Afghan refugees in without taking its long-term consequences in consideration. It was Zia who enacted Hudood reforms and Ordinance XX against Pakistani minorities and women. Yet, you can't understand who is mostly to blame for Pakistani civil society's radicalization?

Why place the blame on Zia? Lets go a little back and remember which fellow bent over for the same clerics and banned nightclubs, made Friday a holiday, declared Ahmedis non-Muslim, began supporting religious fundamentalists in Afghanistan and ruled in such a way that he ushered in a dictatorship? Lets go a little forward, shall we? We had just experienced the terrors of Zia's brutal and criminal regime. Did Bhutto do something about it? Did she end the support of militants in Afghanistan? No. Did she remove the blasphemy law? No. Did Sharif do anything? No. Did they try to facilitate the refugees flooding in? No. Come on, you can't just keep pointing at Zia like you mindless lib-drone bots seem to do all day long. It's not amusing or cute anymore. Maybe in the '90s with those funny looking hairdos and television quality you guys looked funny whining about Zia on TV.

 

[Norwegian]

Why place the blame on Zia? Lets go a little back and remember which fellow bent over for the same clerics and banned nightclubs, made Friday a holiday, declared Ahmedis non-Muslim, began supporting religious fundamentalists in Afghanistan and ruled in such a way that he ushered in a dictatorship? Lets go a little forward, shall we? We had just experienced the terrors of Zia's brutal and criminal regime. Did Bhutto do something about it? Did she end the support of militants in Afghanistan? No. Did she remove the blasphemy law? No. Did Sharif do anything? No. Did they try to facilitate the refugees flooding in? No. Come on, you can't just keep pointing at Zia like you mindless lib-drone bots seem to do all day long. It's not amusing or cute anymore. Maybe in the '90s with those funny looking hairdos and television quality you guys looked funny whining about Zia on TV.

Hahaha. At least you yourself agreed that ZIA was the one who started this Islamic radical mess we are in these days? Just because political leaders after ZIA didn't try to fix the mess he started, doesn't mean he wasn't responsible!

 

[doppelganger]

The writer has a master’s degree in conflict-resolution from the Monterey Institute of International Studies in California and blogs at Coffee Shop Diplomat | Blog, pics & articles

Well educated. Not hot.

 

[Hiptullha]

Hahaha. At least you yourself agreed that ZIA was the one who started this Islamic radical mess we are in these days? Just because political leaders after ZIA didn't try to fix the mess he started, doesn't mean he wasn't responsible!

If you read, you'd see that Zulfikar started the Islamist mess, since he officially began support for Islamists in Afghanistan, bent over for them in several ways such as declaring Ahmedis as non-Muslim, and also ushered in Zia's rule.

Well educated. Not hot.

Washed-up Canadian **** stars caked in make-up your thing?

 

[doppelganger]

Washed-up Canadian **** stars caked in make-up your thing?

My "thing" is my business.

You find her hot, take out your thing and wave it in her face if you so wish.