Pakistan's Growing Human Capital

[Azazel]

A 12-year-old Pakistani girl is taking advance online classes offered by Stanford University. The youngest Microsoft certified professional is a Pakistani. Young Pakistanis are setting records with straight A's on O level and A level Cambridge courses. These frequent reports offer anecdotal evidence of Pakistan's growing human capital. Such evidence is also supported by data reported by various researchers and organizations.

With nearly 16% of its population in 25-34 years age group having college degrees, Pakistan is well ahead of India and Indonesia, according to Global Education Digest 2009 published by UNESCO Institute of Statistics. UNESCO data also shows that Pakistan's lead is growing with younger age groups.

By comparison, a little over 12% of Indians and 9% of Indonesians in 25-34 years age group have completed tertiary education. In 35-44 years age group, 11% of Pakistanis, 9% of Indians and 8% of Indonesians have completed college education. The report shows that 3% of Pakistanis and 1% of Indians have completed tertiary education abroad.

Harvard University researchers Robert Barro and Jhong-wa Lee offer similar insights into educational attainment in Asia and the rest of the world. As of 2010, there are 380 (vs 327 Indians) out of every 1000 Pakistanis age 15 and above who have never had any formal schooling. Of the remaining 620 (vs 673 Indians) who enrolled in school, 22 (vs 20 Indians) dropped out before finishing primary school, and the remaining 598 (vs 653 Indians) completed it. There are 401 (vs 465 Indians) out of every 1000 Pakistanis who made it to secondary school. 290 (vs 69 Indians) completed secondary school while 111 (vs. 394 Indians) dropped out. Only 55 (vs 58 Indians) made it to college out of which 39 (vs 31 Indians) graduated with a degree.




Another important point to note in Barro-Lee dataset is that Pakistan has been increasing enrollment of students in schools at a faster rate since 1990 than India. In 1990, there were 66.2% of Pakistanis vs 51.6% of Indians who had no schooling. In 2000, there were 60.2% Pakistanis vs 43% Indians with no schooling. In 2010, Pakistan reduced it to 38% vs India's 32.7%.

Bullsh!t Pakistan still has the one the largest illiteracy rate in the world and the second largest out of the school population (5.1 million children) after Nigeria.How are children going to drop out if they never go to the school.Your stupid blogs are already debunked, go and write some thing new.Both Adult and Youth literacy rate Pakistan fares worst in the region.

 

[gslv mk3]

The source of the data is UNDP and it's based on research by Oxford University's Oxford Poverty & Human Development Initiative.

see this
PAKISTAN: Increasing level of poverty in Pakistan!!

According to a 2011 poverty Development Goals Report, as many as 320 million people in India and China are expected to come out of extreme poverty in the next four years, while India's poverty rate is projected to drop to 22% in 2015.

And what is the source for statements like 'Islamabad's plush International Airport, easily far more efficient, modern and better maintained than any of its counterparts in India.'
.That is the reliability of your blog... .

 

[karan21]

The source of the data is UNDP and it's based on research by Oxford University's Oxford Poverty & Human Development Initiative.

Hi Mr. Rias haq can you give me one reason why with 2-3% economic growth rate Pakistan's poverty is decreasing and India is increasing as you say??

Your nation's human capital is bane not a boom under these economic conditions. Sorry to say that.

 

[RiazHaq]

There are lies, damned lies and then there are statistics.

And then there are many deluded people who can't see the obvious:

Haq's Musings: Grinding Poverty in Resurgent India

 

[RiazHaq]

http://www.riazhaq.com/2011/08/pakistan-ahead-of-india-in-graduation.html

Hi Mr. Rias haq can you give me one reason why with 2-3% economic growth rate Pakistan's poverty is decreasing and India is increasing as you say??

Your nation's human capital is bane not a boom under these economic conditions. Sorry to say that.

India has an increasing number of billionaires surrounded by a vast ocean of poverty.

Economic growth alone does not reduce poverty; it requires fairer distribution as measured by Gini Index.

India 36.8 Pakistan 30.6

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/fields/2172.html

Bullsh!t Pakistan still has the one the largest illiteracy rate in the world and the second largest out of the school population (5.1 million children) after Nigeria.How are children going to drop out if they never go to the school.Your stupid blogs are already debunked, go and write some thing new.Both Adult and Youth literacy rate Pakistan fares worst in the region.

You are obviously ignorant of the difference between enrollment and graduation rates.

Pakistanis spend more time in schools and colleges and graduate at a higher rate than their Indian counterparts in 15+ age group, according to a report on educational achievement by Harvard University researchers Robert Barro and Jong-Wha Lee.

http://www.riazhaq.com/2011/08/pakistan-ahead-of-india-in-graduation.html

 

[Azazel]

Haq's Musings: Pakistan Ahead of India in Graduation Rates at All Levels

India has an increasing number of billionaires surrounded by a vast ocean of poverty.

Economic growth alone does not reduce poverty; it requires fairer distribution as measured by Gini Index.

India 36.8 Pakistan 30.6

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/fields/2172.html



You are obviously ignorant of the difference between enrollment and graduation rates.

Pakistanis spend more time in schools and colleges and graduate at a higher rate than their Indian counterparts in 15+ age group, according to a report on educational achievement by Harvard University researchers Robert Barro and Jong-Wha Lee.

Haq's Musings: Pakistan Ahead of India in Graduation Rates at All Levels

How many times do we have to debunk this stupid chart,Pakistan has one of the lowest one of the lowest ratios in the world, of people having access to higher education.Only 5.1% people aged 17-23 years are(in 2011) enrolled in higher education in Pakistan.While in India its 11%(18-23 age group,2007 data,Projected to be 15% by 2012).
http://siteresources.worldbank.org/...439264-1193249163062/India_CountrySummary.pdf
This Chart is nothing more than a figment of your imagination,or else how come India's secondary education completion rate is just 0.9%.
Pakistan has lowest ratio of access to higher education: NA told | AAJ News

 

[RiazHaq]

How many times do we have to debunk this stupid chart,Pakistan has one of the lowest one of the lowest ratios in the world, of people having access to higher education.Only 5.1% people aged 17-23 years are(in 2011) enrolled in higher education in Pakistan.While in India its 11%(18-23 age group,2007 data,Projected to be 15% by 2012).
http://siteresources.worldbank.org/...439264-1193249163062/India_CountrySummary.pdf

This Chart is nothing more than a figment of your imagination,or else how come India's secondary education completion rate is just 0.9%.
Pakistan has lowest ratio of access to higher education: NA told | AAJ News

So you trust a questionable news report more than two Harvard University researchers Robert Barro and Jong-Wha Lee?

Barro-Lee.com

And you also trust dubious data more than highly credible UNESCO's Global Education Digest?

http://www.ifap.ru/library/book433.pdf

It just confirms the poor quality of the education you have received.

Haq's Musings: PISA & TIMSS Confirm Low Quality of Indian Education

 

[Azazel]

So you trust a questionable news report more than two Robert Barro and Jong-Wha Lee?

Barro-Lee.com

And you also trust dubious data more than highly credible UNESCO's Global Education Digest?

http://www.ifap.ru/library/book433.pdf

It just confirms the poor quality of the education you have received.

Haq's Musings: PISA & TIMSS Confirm Low Quality of Indian Education

You call that news questionable,That's the report of your Ministry of Education in a written reply made on your National Assembly.That's a sworn affidavit and making a false statement there is equivalent to committing perjury.People like you should know that.And regarding the reliability of the Harvard University researchers.Here is a some facts they admitted in their website

Some countries have extremely low or high county specific primary/secondary completion ratios. As these imply unusual trends in the completion ratios, we replaced them by the regional specific primary/secondary completion ratios. These countries include: Afghanistan, Algeria, Austria, Botswana, Democratic Republic of the Congo (only F), Hungary, India, Malta, Myanmar, New Zealand, Portugal (only MF), Sierre Leone, United Kingdom and Zambia.
2011. April 2013 Update

They themselves admitted that countries including India have shown unusual trends in completion ratios.Clearly an indication of unreliable data,When they admit they have unreliable data on India why you repeatedly use the same unreliable data to make unreliable comparisons.If you are a man of any integrity you wouldn't have done that.Now that's not the case here,is it??Your intellectual dishonesty itself is a clear indication of the inferior education you recieved.Before you question my academic qualities,look in to your self,and ask you are acting like such a weasel.

 

[Roybot]

You are obviously ignorant of the difference between enrollment and graduation rates.

Pakistanis spend more time in schools and colleges and graduate at a higher rate than their Indian counterparts in 15+ age group, according to a report on educational achievement by Harvard University researchers Robert Barro and Jong-Wha Lee.

Haq's Musings: Pakistan Ahead of India in Graduation Rates at All Levels

You are quite pathetic. How many times have I proven to you that that the Barro and Lee data for India is not only wrong, but also outdated?

Here go through my posts in this thread and refresh your memory, I know its pointless because after a few weeks you will go around spouting the same bs all over again.

http://www.defence.pk/forums/central-south-asia/27787-indian-economy-news-updates-127.html

Stop misleading Pakistanis and making them somehow believe that they are doing better than India. Its not gonna help your cause, unless your cause is to mislead gullible Pakistanis

 

[karan.1970]

Stop misleading Pakistanis and making them somehow believe that they are doing better than India. Its not gonna help your cause, unless your cause is to mislead gullible Pakistanis

Humko maloom hai jannat ki Haqueequat lekin, dile ke behlaane ko ghalib, yeh khayal acchha hai

 

[RiazHaq]

You are quite pathetic. How many times have I proven to you that that the Barro and Lee data for India is not only wrong, but also outdated?

Here go through my posts in this thread and refresh your memory, I know its pointless because after a few weeks you will go around spouting the same bs all over again.

http://www.defence.pk/forums/central-south-asia/27787-indian-economy-news-updates-127.html

Stop misleading Pakistanis and making them somehow believe that they are doing better than India. Its not gonna help your cause, unless your cause is to mislead gullible Pakistanis

I see that you have a hard accepting multiple sources of data showing that India lags Pakistan in terms of graduation rates and percentage of population with college degrees.

The fact is that your opinion has zero value when compared with data from UNESCO's Global Education Digest and two Harvard University researchers Robert Barro and Jong-Wha Lee.

http://www.barrolee.com/]Barro-Lee.com

http://www.ifap.ru/library/book433.pdf


It just confirms the poor quality of the education you have received.

Haq's Musings: PISA & TIMSS Confirm Low Quality of Indian Education

 

[gslv mk3]

It just confirms the poor quality of the education you have received.

Haq's Musings: PISA & TIMSS Confirm Low Quality of Indian Education

Where is pakistan in this??

 

[Roybot]

I see that you have a hard accepting multiple sources of data showing that India lags Pakistan in terms of graduation rates and percentage of population with college degrees.

The fact is that your opinion has zero value when compared with data from UNESCO's Global Education Digest and two Harvard University researchers Robert Barro and Jong-Wha Lee.

http://www.barrolee.com/]Barro-Lee.com

http://www.ifap.ru/library/book433.pdf

Ahahahaha I have proved it to you Baroo and Lee data set for India is outdated and wrong. Even then you keep peddling the wrong data just to satiate your little ego and mislead Pakistanis.

Couple of things,

1st

Barro and Lee data for India is from 1991 and extrapolated and that for Pakistan is from 2006.

Here's the proof,

Apendix Table: Page 46, A New Data Set of Educational Attainment in the World, 1950

Here's another data, which has data for India from 2004.

Page 5, Worldbank||The Knowledge Economy and Education and Training in South Asia:
A Mapping Exercise of Available Survey Data -Michelle Riboud, Yevgeniya Savchenko, and Hong Tan

Conclusion being that, all that datas for India are outdated.

2nd

Barro and Lee data for percentage of Indians successfully completing secondary education is wrong. I have proved it to you.

Anyone with a single brain cell can see that, when only 0.9% of Indians have successfully completed secondary education how come 5.8% of Indian enrolled for tertiary. The argument being that, you need to successfully complete secondary education to enroll for tertiary.

Am gonna assume that the audience here doesn't even have that single brain cell. And further prove how and why that 0.9% figure is wrong.

Lemme quote my post from the other thread,

Hah just wanted to hear that!

Let me do some quick maths for you, do point out if there is any mistake.




This is how many Indians passed secondary education.( 3 National Boards, 25 State Education Boards), in 2011 alone! 8,815,505.

So what they are showing for India, is the number of students who successfully completed their secondary school for each individual year, instead of the cumulative figure.

=================================================================

What they should have done, is put a cumulative figure, like they have done for every other country, including Pakistan (22.5%).

Shazzam! Proved. So much for Barrow and Lee from Harvard, and oh they are God, so they can't be wrong!

=================================================================

Am sorry, you may not use this loophole to mislead Pakistanis anymore


http://www.defence.pk/forums/central-south-asia/27787-indian-economy-news-updates-128.html#post2154257

The above quoted post clearly shows that 8815505 Indians passed secondary exams in 2011 alone. Thats 1.06% of Indians aged 15 and above. And you want us to believe only 0.9% of Indians age 15 and above have completed secondary education, ever!

This must be tenth time I have debunked your hogwash. Either you suffer from selective amnesia, or you are a pathological liar or you are purposely misleading gullible Pakistanis into believing that they are doing better than India or you don't have what it takes to process raw data into arguments, take your pick.

If you have any shame, you ll not post this debunked data anymore and delete it from your blogs. But hey who am I kidding, you are RiazHaq, this is your forte, manipulate data to mislead Pakistanis, so carry on

 

[RiazHaq]

Anyone with a single brain cell can see that, when only 0.9% of Indians have successfully completed secondary education how come 5.8% of Indian enrolled for tertiary. The argument being that, you need to successfully complete secondary education to enroll for tertiary.

Am gonna assume that the audience here doesn't even have that single brain cell. And further prove how and why that 0.9% figure is wrong.

Lemme quote my post from the other thread,



The above quoted post clearly shows that 8815505 Indians passed secondary exams in 2011 alone. Thats 1.06% of Indians aged 15 and above. And you want us to believe only 0.9% of Indians age 15 and above have completed secondary education, ever!

It's too complicated for someone with a "single brain cell".

So let me try and help you.

Here's how you read Barro-Lee data:

As of 2010, there are 380 (vs 327 Indians) out of every 1000 Pakistanis age 15 and above who have never had any formal schooling. Of the remaining 620 (vs 673 Indians) who enrolled in school, 22 (vs 20 Indians) dropped out before finishing primary school, and the remaining 598 (vs 653 Indians) completed it. There are 401 (vs 465 Indians) out of every 1000 Pakistanis who made it to secondary school. 290 (vs 69 Indians) completed secondary school while 111 (vs. 394 Indians) dropped out. Only 55 (vs 58 Indians) made it to college out of which 39 (vs 31 Indians) graduated with a degree.

Haq's Musings: Educational Attainment in India & Pakistan

 

[Roybot]

It's too complicated for someone with a "single brain cell".

So let me try and help you.

Here's how you read Barro-Lee data:

As of 2010, there are 380 (vs 327 Indians) out of every 1000 Pakistanis age 15 and above who have never had any formal schooling. Of the remaining 620 (vs 673 Indians) who enrolled in school, 22 (vs 20 Indians) dropped out before finishing primary school, and the remaining 598 (vs 653 Indians) completed it. There are 401 (vs 465 Indians) out of every 1000 Pakistanis who made it to secondary school. 290 (vs 69 Indians) completed secondary school while 111 (vs. 394 Indians) dropped out. Only 55 (vs 58 Indians) made it to college out of which 39 (vs 31 Indians) graduated with a degree.

Haq's Musings: Educational Attainment in India & Pakistan

Yeah thats what I thought.

And its quite pathetic that you are quoting someone else's interpretation and posing it as your own. Atleast have the courtesy of giving his blog link instead of your own.

The guy who you are quoting, Sidharth Vij, also raises the point about the currency of the data used in case of India and Pakistan, just like I did.

For India, they have used data from only 4 censuses (1961-1991). Surprisingly, their data does not incorporate the 2001 census. For Pakistan, they have 6 censuses to rely on including 1998 and 2006. Extrapolation picks up trends but would have missed a structural change in educational attainment.

Secondly, the guy is merely interpreting the data and not questioning its accuracy. Am disputing the secondary completion percentage(0.9% for India and 22.26% for Pakistan).

I have proved it to you, with ample proof, that 1.06% of Indians aged 15+ successfully passed secondary exams in 2011 alone. Similarly 1% in 2010, 0.9% in 2009 and so on so forth. So the secondary completion figure should be cumulative, as is the case with every other country and education levels, instead of the 0.9% you see in the table. This can be further verified by looking at the educational attainment data from elsewhere.

Or you want people to believe that only 0.9% of Indians aged 15 and above have successfully completed secondary education.

Thats 0.9% of 820 Million people= 7.5 Million Indians aged 15+ (8.8 Million Indians passed Secondary exam in 2011 alone)

As opposed to 22.26% of 112 Million= 25 Million Pakistanis aged 15+ have passed secondary

And 46.49% of 1000 Million= 465 Million Chinese aged 15+ have passed secondary

Good one

Its only a matter of time, before Barro and Lee realise their mistake or someone points it out to them and they ll fix it. Till then, as an educated person(I presume), least you can do is to point out this glaringly obvious mistake, instead of using it to do your pathetic propaganda.